The diet itself seems to help me with food obsessions

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abicahsoul
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The diet itself seems to help me with food obsessions

Post by abicahsoul »

Hi crew,
I have been using the non-strict (that is non-sample) diet for a while. It appealed to me because it seemed to make some sense, and it also includes what I like: raw stuff and fruit and fat and sugar :lol: I never really let myself eat it too much b/coz I thought it was unhealthy perhaps, and also against common aesthetics, I mean if you enjoy raw yolk most people with eyeball you.. Now I try to eat about the amounts recommended, sometimes a tiny bit more because my carvings are not under control. :oops:
However I must say that the more strict I try I feel that the help against the cravings appear themselves in the diet - that is, I switched from salmon with no-no soy sauce and :x no-no wasabi (baaaaaaaaaaaad stuff) to egg yolk, and guess what I realized that the taste from the soy sauce had actually increased my carvings and obsessions!!??!! I had no idea before. And the egg yolk+raw salmon had a filling effect, and also that it became gross to eat more than ca 50-60 grams w. two egg yolks for dips, and I already felt that was too much! That's wonderful, because I know myself, my body always wins in the end if I am not satisfied with what I eat, if I try to be abstinent from things I want. :P But the good thing is that in this diet I can discover at my own pace that my body seems to likes the changes! Even if I love soy and wasabi, I kind of might have it sometime, but I also got aware of the effect they had on me!
However, I'm still a newbie, and I don't know yet what will happen as I go along. One thing that's kind of hard, and I guess is the reason why this board is thriving is that it can entail a great deal of anxiety to switch faaaaar away from international and national health guidelines. At least it does so for me. I get kind of fantasies about what might be going bad in my body. I am aware that I am kind of looking for trouble but that's how I am. So let's say I am gradually approaching the diet. :)

My worries are these:

Heart health: A year ago I participated in a heart disease study as a "healthy specimen" :lol: , my heart was great, my condition also great, my blood sugar on a fast was after two hours also as it should be. But during that test I talked a bit with the nurse working on the project and she said that there were strong indications that fast sugars, and high sugar eating habits, could or seemed to be a factor contributing to developping heart disease.

I have been worried that if you take in a lot of sugar they will enter the bloodstream and that the blood will get thicker from the glucose and that it puts a strain on the differnt internal organs (heart, liver, etc), like in diabetes. And somehow I got the impression that sugar and fat together is really bad. ANd also I heard that fats not only build up where we can see them, around the waist, tummy, hips, etc, but also around or in internal organs, and that it is very dangerous. And what is a little and a lot?

I have the impression that you who started this diet and are oldtimers are slim or skinny (as I read in some thread here.. :?: ), and that you have problems with eating enough. That makes me wonder if you don't share the wish to eat so much fat or sugar? I mean, I really enjoy 1dl cream with my fruit and perhaps a little sugar?, and 50 gr butter with my potatoes, and I could have it twice a day. :oops: I love butter and cream (yes ,I know it is not on the sample diet.. but I'm not there yet..), it gives me crazy satisfaction. I also love my fruit. ANd I just realized that 1½-2kg fruit doesn't mean weight with peel n stuff.. it means just the flesh.. But I think I eat really a lot.. So I guess I am a bit worried about overeating.. I don't know if I just need to relax, I mean, anxiety also makes me wanna eat more.. (however, egg yolks really work pretty good there..)
I am not very overweight just a little: 163cm 68kg, and a good deal is muscle, but some is also fat :oops: :lol:
(Ok, what my fears are: that you all a skinny bunch of people with very low food craving, and for whom a teaspoon of cream is A LOT and VERY SATISFYING, and that I my fool tries this diet coming from a different perspective where 1dl of cream and 50 gr butter is actually great stuff, and nothing I will find hard to eat.. except I worry that it is bad for me.. I worry.. perhaps because I like it soo much.. :oops: )

Another worry is about teeth: You oldtimers, what does the dentist say when you turn up for your yearly checkup? A lot of fruit means a lot of sugar and acid on the teeth which is bad.. and hardly no chewing means little excercise for the tooth beds.. I heard that you need to excercise your gums/tooth beds because it prevents tooth loss in old age?

Also back to heart health: when I do exercise my heart tend to beat much faster, and my breath seems shorter, I huff and puff more, and I can't see no other explanation than that some of it must have to do with the diet? I worry a bit again: fast sugar and fat - are they putting strain on the system? Instead of that slow sugar release in such diets as GI or all those that are more public health condoned. I am trying my way, I am also thinking about my attitude to training, that my ideals, raise cardio a good deal above resting level, and working machines with resistance so that 8 repetitions is about what I can do, and instead trying just a little cardio that is at comfortable level, and working machines with resistances that are low, that seems mostly to give some warmup and release stiffness in joints and muscles and more repeats, and with an awareness of pilates techniques of posture and activation and breath.. it is challenging, because I wanted high action before to feel that I did something good for my body, but now I try to appreciate the delicate approach, and also focus more on stretching and awareness of how an exercise feels :) good but still a bit anxiety inducing, since I have a stress to achieve a lot in a little time and tend to feel very stressed that if something doesn't happen right now it will never happen, or it will all go to hell.. and also because really working those crosstrainers for 60 minutes and at a fair resistance and at a pace also used to be a way for me to get rid of anxieties, tensions, and bad feelings about myself, and also some aggressions :P So what to do now? Hm.. we will see.. I fear to try a more intense cardio as I did before since I am afraid that my blood is full of glucose and fat and my heart tries to deal with that.. and that intense cardio will be a stress? I dont' know I also got the feeling that's one of the reasons why Wai diet doesnt' recommend or actually discourages (?) intense training??

I also wonder about the eating of egg yolks: I understand best time to eat them is evening or before bedtime because that's when the body recuperates and rebuilds and need choleserol and protein best. And that it is the time when you are gonna rest anyway. But if I eat egg yolks in the daytime to make my cravings go away, and even if I rest the required time, it might still be used as energy, and thus not be used for repair, rebuild? But there is no other negative with having some yolks in the daY?

I do tend to worry. :roll: When I put it down it looks a bit cocobello, but I mean, out with it.. it's better than in. ;D

Heart and teeth.. and hair fall out.. those are my worries.. oooh, and general internal organ stress due to this diet.. Glad for responses
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RRM
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Re: The diet itself seems to help me with food obsessions

Post by RRM »

thank you for your post.
abicahsoul wrote: I realized that the taste from the soy sauce had actually increased my carvings
Absolutely; its a powerful 'taste enhancer'.
I'm still a newbie, and I don't know yet what will happen as I go along.
The longer you are on the (strict) diet, the easier it gets.
I get kind of fantasies about what might be going bad in my body.
Thats normal, as we learn to be afraid of bacteria etc.
Whenever you have doubts, just express them, and we will try to clear things up.
she said that there were strong indications that fast sugars, and high sugar eating habits, could or seemed to be a factor contributing to developping heart disease.
This is true, if you consume too much sugar in one sitting.
This diet is not about just a few meals a day; on this diet
you will be consuming lots of small meals throughout the day, which means much less energy per meal,
so that its far less dangerous than a normal diet.
somehow I got the impression that sugar and fat together is really bad.
Both sugars and fats are always present in our blood.
I heard that fats not only build up where we can see them, around the waist, tummy, hips, etc, but also around or in internal organs, and that it is very dangerous.
True.
And when do you build up fat?
By consuming a meal that goes beyond just replenishing lost blood sugars, protein and fats.
With every big meal, body fat is stored.
With this diet, you constantly replenish lost energy.

sih And what is a little and a lot?
I have the impression that ... you have problems with eating enough.
For the long time users not at all, as eating according to your energy needs gets easier with time.
For those who just started this diet it is the case.
I am a bit worried about overeating..
Lets monitor your weight, ok?
my fears are: that you all a skinny bunch of people with very low food craving
I used to have high food cravings, but not any more.
I worry.. perhaps because I like it soo much.. :oops: )
I understand. All the goodies are bad for you, right?
Luckily, it doesnt have to be that way.
You oldtimers, what does the dentist say when you turn up for your yearly checkup?
My teeth are looking fine,
even though as a kid (on a normal diet) my teeth were not so good.
I always use a straw and rinsing with water after each meal has a great neutralizing effect.
I heard that you need to excercise your gums/tooth beds because it prevents tooth loss in old age?
I use tooth picks, and chew on raw beef. (not in that order :) )
when I do exercise my heart tend to beat much faster, and my breath seems shorter, I huff and puff more
You are probably lacking energy, as it happens with most people who start this diet,
as consuming too little energy is issue number one for starters.
fast sugar and fat - are they putting strain on the system?
No, they are nutrients, very effectively converted into energy.
Instead of that slow sugar release in such diets as GI or all those that are more public health condoned.
Consuming lots of small meals of fast sugars has the same effect as sugars gradually released from digestion.
it is challenging, because I wanted high action before to feel that I did something good for my body
Yes, we are trained to think that we need to suffer.
also because really working those crosstrainers for 60 minutes and at a fair resistance and at a pace also used to be a way for me to get rid of anxieties, tensions, and bad feelings about myself
You can still do that if you want to.
I am afraid that my blood is full of glucose and fat and my heart tries to deal with that..
That happens after a big meal; not on the Wai diet.
With this diet, you will replenish your blood glucose and fatty acids,
and lost glycogen (in liver and muscles).
With this diet its hard to eat so much that it gets too much,
which is practically normal on a standard diet.
But if I eat egg yolks in the daytime to make my cravings go away, and even if I rest the required time, it might still be used as energy, and thus not be used for repair, rebuild?
the cholesterol will not be used for energy,
and if you take in sufficient sugars, the protein will generally survive too.
But there is no other negative with having some yolks in the daY?
No.
abicahsoul
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Re: The diet itself seems to help me with food obsessions

Post by abicahsoul »

THanks very much! :D I feel very pleased and encouraged! Some of the clarifications made me feel that perhaps I could try a little stricter now, especially when all the social eating holidays are over. I will let you know how my approach goes. Thanks RRM for adressing some of my worries and fears. I will think smaller meals. And some yolks in the day too!
Just a small question: perhaps this belongs in another thread but: I wonder what material made Wai (and you) convinced that the official recommendations about calcium is wrong? Has anyone of you checked your bone density etc? The same I wonder about the opioiod peptide(in food)theory and beta-carboline theory as related to dependency (addiction)? It makes sense, especially since I recognize many things you say when you explain the diet. I recognize from experience, but when I search the net I find it hard to find scientific articles and sites that explains. Most sites are very alternative. I know, in a way most theories that are very opposed to the ingrained and longstanding and make quantum leaps are often slow to get much attnetion because there is a resistance to them.
Happy New Year, I am gonna go out for a nice long walk to get some of my restless energy out. :D
abicahsoul
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Re: The diet itself seems to help me with food obsessions

Post by abicahsoul »

Questions:
It says that between 6-8 am the body does some natural cleansing. And that you should only eat fruit. Does that also mean no oil?
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Oscar
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Re: The diet itself seems to help me with food obsessions

Post by Oscar »

A reminder: the closer you get to the strict diet, the stronger the cravings will become unfortunately. This is okay and no reason to worry.
I think it depends on your schedule when the body does certain things (and other things it'll do no matter what), so whenever you're up and about, eating fruit + fat should be fine.
Also, it's so difficult to find information because it is mostly very specialized, and covers a very limited area. RRM (and Wai) gathered all the info and combined it.
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RRM
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Re: The diet itself seems to help me with food obsessions

Post by RRM »

Exactly; it depends on your schedule, but yes, its best to not consume fat right away.
abicahsoul wrote:what material made Wai (and you) convinced that the official recommendations about calcium is wrong?
The highest incidence of osteoporosis related bone fractures in those countries with the highest calcium intakes
and lowest such incidence in countries where the least calcium is consumed.
Thats what triggered the research, and then i found all the 'circumstantial evidence'.
Has anyone of you checked your bone density etc?
No, but i always take a lot of risk in traffic, on my bicycle,
and have received quite some hits, experienced some falls in icy conditions, and have been swept entirely over a speeding car,
but never broke anything. (my bike, yes, but no bones)
So, im guessing my bone health is all right.
when I search the net I find it hard to find scientific articles and sites that explains.
We listed the sources, but indeed, there is not much explaining going on.
Except for vegan sites etc., but that makes sense,
as to why would you want to find out about the addictive nature of something that you love to eat?
Many times i heared a smoker tell me that he was not addicted. "I just like to smoke!".
Iris
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Re: The diet itself seems to help me with food obsessions

Post by Iris »

abicahsoul wrote:my fears are: that you all a skinny bunch of people with very low food craving
Unfortunately, no. In fact, for me that was one of the main reasons why I started this diet in the first place. And I still struggle, feel like I "need" my drugs (addictive food). As long as I don't cut out addictive foods altogether, I know (from experience) I will keep having this problem (in that regards, is the same as being addicted to alcohol for instance). But by doing so, I know I'll go through severe withdrawal symptoms (done that a few times before) and I can't handle that at this moment...
abicahsoul
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Re: The diet itself seems to help me with food obsessions

Post by abicahsoul »

For me it is more about amount, more than about specific things.. I find the ASD very hard to begin with because only 2 yolks OR 50gr raw fish (raw meat) is allowed, I feel right now that I would obsess very much.:$
hmmmzz.. I actually found it pretty easy to kick most other stuff so far (as long as I can eat 6-9 egg yolks a day and maybe with an added piece of fresh raw meat or fish 50gr - 100gr if I am really feeling the munchies). But as said earlier I try not to beat myself up.. the more I allow myself to eat a bit more within the diet, perhaps I hope if the need persists cuz my acne won't go away that perhaps when I feel more confident about energy management, more happy and stable in my mood and sleep (as when summer comes.. I am much more happy in summer) I might feel I might be able to go through with the ASD.
Nice though to hear of your experiences though.
Just because I want to know about weight loss things, how far away are you frmo the ASD? Did you ever feel any success in the weight loss department on this diet? Do you also train something? If I may ask of course. :) Just want to know what to expect. I kind of really hoped that it might be easy to loose when on this diet. But this emptying of glycogen depots method I don't really have a clue about, and it seems to be in opposition to getting enough sugar for training so that I don't feel weak or tired, or that my muscles start to burn. That's really someting I wonder about: How can you empty glycogen depots during training, without risking that the muscle starts to burn?
Iris
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Re: The diet itself seems to help me with food obsessions

Post by Iris »

abicahsoul wrote: Just because I want to know about weight loss things, how far away are you frmo the ASD? Did you ever feel any success in the weight loss department on this diet? Do you also train something? If I may ask of course. :) Just want to know what to expect. I kind of really hoped that it might be easy to loose when on this diet. But this emptying of glycogen depots method I don't really have a clue about, and it seems to be in opposition to getting enough sugar for training so that I don't feel weak or tired, or that my muscles start to burn. That's really someting I wonder about: How can you empty glycogen depots during training, without risking that the muscle starts to burn?
Well, as I said earlier, I'm not even 100%, so not at all on the ASD. But then, I don't suffer from acne nor cellulite. When I'm 100%, I eat A LOT of yolks and fish, like 12 yolks a day or like 250 grams of fish. Or even like 8 yolks AND 200 gram fish. Besides that, I then drink plenty of orange juice, and most days also eat some fruit (like mango's).

Right now I'm eating and drinking fruit during the day, and in the evening eat some cooked noodles with say cucumber, fruit, prawns/chicken/other meat with some sweet and sour sauce I make myself.... As a result, I'm now heavier. Right now I manage to keep my weight around 55-56 kg (I'm 1.73 m). When I skip the noodles etc and eat all that yolks and fish, I weigh about 5 kg less. I don't exercise apart from walking a lot and sporting with my dog.

I think you shouldn't focus so much on your weight. Ofcourse you can monitor it, but there is simply no need to put yourself under so much stress when you're on this diet. In my experience, when you only eat Wai-approved foods, losing weight comes natural. In fact, it's harder to NOT loose weight :) Don't expect it to be done in one week, but you will get slimmer over time (when you're not underweight already, that is, but I assume you're not :wink: ) What IS important to focus on, is your energy-level. I understand it is hard to monitor that in the beginning. But learning to listen to your body in that regards goes very fast. You could for example use the nutrient calculator to find out what you approximately need to eat/drink every day in order to get enough energy, eat that in small portions during the day, register closely what signals your body is sending out to you, and use your scale to see what effect it has on your weight :)

Oh, and a tip: when you want to loose weight, you could skip the aocado :wink: It's very nutrient dense, and you don't NEED it per se. There are no nutrients in avocado you can't get from anything else. Ofcourse you can perfectly loose weight by eating avocados also, it's just easier when you don't :wink:
abicahsoul
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Re: The diet itself seems to help me with food obsessions

Post by abicahsoul »

Hm... short answer cuz I'm going to bed. :) But if you're 173cm and 55-56 kg that is as far as I know certainly or almost underweight? Or at least it is at the very low side of the IBM? 50kg and 173 would be hmm.. also veerry slim!
Ok, I am a bit stouter. But anyhow. I will not worry so much. However I will consider skipping avocados as a daily feature. I can have them when I really feel like them. Now that I feel more confident that the fruit make me full.
The thing with the nutrient calculator is not really clear for me, I don't know what I need? Cuz I don't really know how much I spend? Right now I have had a lazy period during winter break. But now soon my dance classes will begin and I will be doing that most nights of the weeks for a couple of hours. It is not very intense training, or the tempo varies depending on what we're doing. I guess it is hard to calculate, and then find that your body has another idea of its needs? But perhaps it could be good to get an idea what the calculator says and then to see if my percieved apetite and needs seems to transcend that. :D That's an idea.
Aha. Well it is in a way nice to know that you can also for periods make some less strict variations from the diet when not having any specific issues.:)
OMGGGG 12 yolks and 250gr fish! That's a lot! Ok, that's something to keep in mind when I am thinking that I need to lessen my intake..
Thanks for the comments and suggestions :D
Iris
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Re: The diet itself seems to help me with food obsessions

Post by Iris »

abicahsoul wrote:But if you're 173cm and 55-56 kg that is as far as I know certainly or almost underweight?
No, according to those BMI-scales I'm in the healthy weight section, but should not weigh less. At 50, I would indeed be underweight according to those scales.... It doesn't worry me because I don't believe in those numbers and figures anyway, and all the more trust my body for sending out the right signals. If I'd become really underweight, my body would be shouting out to me to eat! Just like it does now when I need energy, but then 10000 times harder. Also, these cravings won't go away by eating something, or at least be back a lot sooner than they normally would. The longer you deprive your body from eating, the more severe your cravings will be for any food. And by listening to those signals (a very important part of this diet, after all), you will GAIN weight naturally :)

Your energy requirements depend also on your height and weight. If you share them we can help you estimate your energy requirements.

My luck is I don't have to watch my protein intake closely because of acne/cellulite. Fish and yolks are very important for me to prevent myself from eating "bad stuff". Also, especially the yolks work wonders with depressions, which I tend to have a lot, unfortunately...
But to be clear, it's not I eat that EVERY day. When it's time to eat fish or yolk, I just decide at that moment how much I want, and sometimes it's that much, yes :)
sunkist5000
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Re: The diet itself seems to help me with food obsessions

Post by sunkist5000 »

To Iris:

I can really relate to what you are saying about cutting out all addictive foods because I am struggling right now after years of raw foods and finally Wai Diet....now I have found myself after one year full of stress...I fell back on cooked starches etc and over the past year I began to eat that & more cooked food.

Now I feel awful, I have gained weight and so it's like I'm starting over again!

I want to restart sooo bad, but these addictive foods have such a grip on me right now I feel almost "afraid" to let go of them...as if they are a security blanket for me!

I have given up all wheat products...that is step one! Next is going to be all grains because currently I have been having egg whites on corn tostada shells.

Next step is to keep adding more raw foods, egg yolks etc to crowd out any other cooked foods I feel i "need"

But LASTLY I'm not sure if I can give up my espresso & half/half in the morning.....seriously if any of you guys told me that I really could do this diet strictly except for having my espresso & half/half in the morning, I would almost cry with tears of joy.

Anyway...like I said I definitely know where you are coming from cause I'm "there" too right now!!!

:D
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RRM
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Re: The diet itself seems to help me with food obsessions

Post by RRM »

I would not cut stuff gradually, because that way you keep feeding the addiction,
and i think it will get very hard.
I think its much better to take a drastic step, as Oscar suggested: only Wai + espresso, and nothing else.
That way you still have your reward whenever you 'need it', and yet you are taking a huge step.
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