Shellfish (& meat); From an evolutionary point

About (not) consuming fresh raw fish and fresh raw egg yolks
avalon
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Post by avalon »

I don't want to sound like I'm puting any Homos down. All Homos are good Homos.

Avalon :)
spring
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Post by spring »

Well, I've traveled widely and talk with thousands of different people every year. In fact I don't know anyone who wants to eat small mammals raw. Except those paleoeaters. If you have any differing personal experience please let us know. I think I speak for most people actually about people not wanting to get down on all fours and catch a small mammal and eat it raw. Nobody wants to do that. If you want a survey, I can't produce one, and from the literature all you were able to come up with was a webpage about cooked bugs (except one raw bug dish - not sure about this - could have been cooked).
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Oscar
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Post by Oscar »

spring wrote:In fact I don't know anyone who wants to eat small mammals raw.
spring wrote:Except those paleoeaters.
So what is it going to be? No one, someone, a few people, many people? And those people you met, did they live a million years ago or were they a produce of modern society?

You keep talking about small mammals, so I guess you find them very interesting. I hope you liked the website about the cooked bugs. You keep mentioning it, so I guess you do. Good.
spring
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Post by spring »

Oscar wrote:
spring wrote:In fact I don't know anyone who wants to eat small mammals raw.
spring wrote:Except those paleoeaters.
So what is it going to be? No one, someone, a few people, many people? And those people you met, did they live a million years ago or were they a produce of modern society?
Well, put those two sentences together and that's your answer.

No, they didn't live a million years ago, but you would think if eating small mammals raw was our natural food, I would come across at least one or two people in my lifetime who salivated when they saw a small mammal running across their path, and I'm talking about people who eat fruit as a normal part of their diet, which humans have done for millions of years.
You keep talking about small mammals, so I guess you find them very interesting. I hope you liked the website about the cooked bugs. You keep mentioning it, so I guess you do. Good.
The only reason why I talk about them because you said small mammals and insects eaten raw are part of our natural diet; this was after I said raw shellfish by evolutionary measures should be our natural diet (as well as fruit etc). You put the link up about the cooked insects and apart from that hasn't really supported your statement that small mammals and insects are part of our natural diet, and then you criticized my statements that cast doubt on your theory; so do you still believe what you said or you don't?
spring
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Post by spring »

When you see 'nobody' you can assume I exclude the paleo-eaters. (And they might eat sma;; mammals from the POV of their health's sake (or what they think is healthy) but I doubt they salivate when they see small mammals or crouch down cat-style and pounce on their prey when looking for small mammals to eat, and rip the prey apart with their teeth and nails and desire to consume it on the spot.

"Nobody' is a generalization.
Evolutionary speaking we should be eating insects and small mammals.
This is what you said. I was disagreeing with you and made the observation that I am not aware of anyone who has a hankering for raw small mammals (or raw insects), although I am aware of many many people who like to eat raw fruit and raw shellfish.
avalon
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Post by avalon »

Hi Spring, thought you'd find this interesting:
IF the human species had "evolved" or "adapted" to flesh-eating as falsely claimed by most meatarian armchair anthropologists, then the physical tools (claws, sharp teeth, ability to outrun animals,...), the digestive chemistry, and the INSTINCT to do so would have also co-evolved, but there is no evidence that even suggests that these "adaptations", that are absolutely necessary for any species to be able to catch, eat, and properly digest raw animal flesh, exist in the human. Of course, the "civilized" human, having absolutely NO instinct to catch, kill, tear asunder, and eat RAW animals, which would exist IF we had "evolved" to do so, always cooks his flesh; however, cooking animal protein and fats creates some of the most potent carcinogens known: nitrosamines.

Finally, those armchair anthropologists who glibly claim we are/were "scavengers" are welcome to actually test their theory by chowing down on some fresh road-kill.


From: http://www.ecologos.org/chimphunt.htm

Best wishes,
Avalon :)
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RRM
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Post by RRM »

Raw meat is perfectly well digested; it doesnt take much to do so, in contrast to grasses and leaves containing all kind of anti-nutrients.
It seems we have been occasional scavengers, eating the remains of prey killed by predators. I dont think the 'hankering' to do so is still present today, but that doesnt mean we didnt.
There is proof that Homo erectus ate raw fish.
avalon
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Post by avalon »

Good Morning,

I'm sure we're all right to some degree, except Oscar of course :roll: Just kidding. But obviously the key to much of this is, we used our brains. And FIRE changed everything. Who doesn't think the smell of burning cow is delicious? On second thought, don't answer that heh heh. We used our brains to hunt and trap and fish, so we didn't need to chase little wild beasties- we could throw an ax and chop them in two :shock: . Which I'm sure we did.

Our Parents play a big role in our conditioning and eating habits, yes? We often had 'cheap' supermarket caviar and raw oysters in the house. And though my Brother and Sister didn't care for them then and to this day, I feel those food stuffs had great impact on me. It wasn't a difficult leap from oysters to sushi. And unfortunately or fortunately they condition us to close-mindedness, to hate one another, to help one another, to succeed or fail- and to eat what we eat.

It's all cool stuff. So here's more goodies:
Based on the analysis of food refuse evidence, it is likely that australopithecines and early transitional humans were primarily wild plant food collectors and occasional scavengers of meat and eggs. By the time of Homo erectus, hunting and carcass scavenging were apparently becoming much more common. The evidence of this change in subsistence pattern can be seen especially at late Homo erectus sites such as Zhoukoudian. Literally tens of thousands of fragmentary food refuse bones were found there. They came from pigs, sheep, rhinoceros, buffalo, and especially deer. In addition, there were large numbers of bones from small animals including birds, turtles, rabbits, rodents, and fish as well as the shells of oysters, limpets, and mussels. Some of these bones ended up in the cave at Zhoukoudian as a result of large carnivorous animals rather than humans, but there is sufficient evidence to suggest that by 1/2 million years ago, some Homo erectus were exploiting virtually every animal in their environment for food. They undoubtedly were harvesting vast amounts of wild plant foods as well. It would be a mistake to assume that Homo erectus had become an efficient specialized big game hunter. That development did not occur until more advanced Homo sapiens had evolved, several hundred thousand years later.
from: http://anthro.palomar.edu/homo/homo_3.htm

Avalon :)
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RRM
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Post by RRM »

Im sorry people, but I have deleted the last couple of posts because it was more of the same miscommunication that was going on in this thread. I was leading to nothing but more bickering. Thats why I locked up this thread.
Lets start fresh, lets forget our miscommunication and let us try to understand.
Locked