wild vs farmed

About (not) consuming fresh raw fish and fresh raw egg yolks
Iris
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Post by Iris »

Sounds to me like the salmon you ate wasn't that fresh anymore. Have you asked you supplier for realy fresh salmon?
Although I'm no expert, I know you shouldn't get such reactions to eating some salmon.
Maybe you aren't used to the bacteria? Have you increased the amount consumed by little steps? 200 gr salmon and 3 yolks isn't too much if you haven't got acne-troubles and you are used to it. Otherwise it can make you feel realy sick indeed.

How do you know for sure it's the salmon what's causing this?

Oh yeah, if salmon doesn't taste good, you shouldn't eat it!!! It's your body telling you it's wrong food! :) Listen to it! Not all non-organic farmed salmon has a bad aftertaste. And it's not only about freshnes.
fictor
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Post by fictor »

justin1 wrote:---nasal pathways swollen, face swollen, runny nose, some acne, heavy building up of mucus, "asthmatic" coughing, loss of power/energy, bad mood, tiredness, more need for sleep, diarrhea and constipation...
It sounds like you were ill ass hell, man!
I doubt all those symptoms came from the salmon. You probably
got a cold.
justin1 wrote:- so i ate 100-200g salmon and 2-3 yolks once a day (which IS too much)
Only if you have acne. It is relatively little protein , unless you are a really small person.
justin1 wrote:i still eat some yolks 3-4 per day...
This is very little. I have acne, and I have no more acne when eating 6-8 yolks,
or 2-3 yolks and 50 grams fish per day, than when eating just 3 yolks per day.
justin1 wrote:it was a try, as i was looking onto organic fed/farmed fresh raw salmon really...
why dont you try tuna? At least here in Oslo you can get it un-frozen.
justin1
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Post by justin1 »

fictor wrote: It sounds like you were ill ass hell, man! I doubt all those symptoms came from the salmon. You probably got a cold.
justin1 wrote:- so i ate 100-200g salmon and 2-3 yolks once a day (which IS too much)


Only if you have acne. It is relatively little protein , unless you are a really small person.
justin1 wrote:i still eat some yolks 3-4 per day...


This is very little. I have acne, and I have no more acne when eating 6-8 yolks, or 2-3 yolks and 50 grams fish per day, than when eating just 3 yolks per day.
justin1 wrote:it was a try, as i was looking onto organic fed/farmed fresh raw salmon really...
why dont you try tuna? At least here in Oslo you can get it un-frozen.

---i did not had a cold, i usually get this type of heavy reaction from improper foods eating and/or overeating...:(

---acne has not been any major problem, just very little...

---my weight is 60kg and height 176cm, so i thought that maybe i got too much of protein, but it is nice to hear it maybe not be because of the overdose of a protein...

---i must say, prior to wai-diet i have been living on a raw vegan (mostly fruits) diet for almost 8-years without any animal cholesterol and protein, and not special supplements... and many years before that as a vegetarian...

---yes, i tried a wild fresh raw tuna twice, it was a first time when i started with wai-diet, i ate ca 100g and ca 200g, but i felt VERY acidic aftertaste at both occasions (with many days in between these two trials), the taste while eating was good, but the aftertaste, was very bad...:(

---i have not given up fresh raw fish thought, but i keep a break for now and try to figure it all out...

thanks for sharing
;)/JustinOne
justin1
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Post by justin1 »

Iris wrote:Sounds to me like the salmon you ate wasn't that fresh anymore. Have you asked you supplier for realy fresh salmon?
Although I'm no expert, I know you shouldn't get such reactions to eating some salmon.
Maybe you aren't used to the bacteria? Have you increased the amount consumed by little steps? 200 gr salmon and 3 yolks isn't too much if you haven't got acne-troubles and you are used to it. Otherwise it can make you feel realy sick indeed.

How do you know for sure it's the salmon what's causing this?

Oh yeah, if salmon doesn't taste good, you shouldn't eat it!!! It's your body telling you it's wrong food! :) Listen to it! Not all non-organic farmed salmon has a bad aftertaste. And it's not only about freshnes.

---it WAS fresh, most of a time i think, i always ask about freshness, and try to pick the best peace, and the salmon was tasting really good while eating, it was melting in my mouth, i really enjoyed while eating it, but the bad thing starts after..., specially the next morning, i feel such a "acidic" aftertaste, and heaviness in my body, sort of feeling that digestive system is totally clogged up, and veeeery heavy..., but while eating it always tastes great, - great in an addictive way...:)

---i am not sure of bacteria..., i have been consuming yolks for several moths, and i started really gently with lower amount of salmon... as i did not knew what to expect from eating raw animal meat...

---but suppliers, they do not tell the whole truth, i know, that fish is always much older than they pretend and say it is..., as it is a larger market place, but private driven boutique...

---it is really a shame, i enjoy taste in the mouth while eating a lot, but not the aftertaste..., which is bad and leading to much suffering...

---my suspicion is the bad unnatural food on which the salmon is fed up in hatcheries..., that might have something to do with my symptoms...
;)/JustinOne
Iris
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Post by Iris »

---my suspicion is the bad unnatural food on which the salmon is fed up in hatcheries..., that might have something to do with my symptoms...
In what way? From another thread:
Bambi726 wrote:
Farmed salmon can be quite contaminated with PCBs
RRM: From what Ive read, this is pretty much under control nowadays.
Bambi726: are typically vaccinated and/or fed antibiotics
RRM: They are fed antibiotics, indeed, but maximally only small amounts of remainders can be ingested from eating farmed salmon.
Bambi726: and eat an unnatural diet of (processed) fishmeal, soy meal, soy protein and/or corn gluten...
RRM: True, and yes this will decrease longevity of the salmon, but its unlikely to afflict the contents of its meat (regarding nutrients and toxins)
For example; it doesnt matter that fish naturally dont consume oil; what matters is what the effects of consuming oil are on the contents of its flesh; does it contain all nutrients and no / hardly any toxins?
Bambi726: it would make sense that it would make for a healthier fish overall, similar to biodynamics...
RRM: Sure, but maybe thats not really an issue.
To me, it doesnt matter how healthy the fish is, but how healthy its flesh is for us, which is decided by the bad / good substances it contains.
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justin1
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Post by justin1 »

---Iris, thanks for this information.

---good to know..., are there more people in this forum who have reported good experience from eating non-organic farmed fresh raw salmon?

---i think now, i maybe try to eat again of same type salmon, but in stricktly limited quantity 50g to max 100g per day, and not every day....

---could it be an overdose which triggered these symptoms....? overdose of proteins....? or fats...?
;)/JustinOne
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Oscar
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Post by Oscar »

I order it twice a week at the fishmonger at the Gelderlandplein in Buitenveldert. If it's not too far away for you, it shouldn't be a problem.

The quality of farmed fish varies. Especially after the summer months the non-organic farmed salmon can be bad, perhaps because of the amount of accumulated bad fats.

I've only been eating organic salmon for about 1.5 years or so, before that I used to eat non-organic salmon every day, without adverse effects.

The symptoms Justin describes could well be an bacteria overload for whichever reason. Not too fresh egg yolks, not too fresh fish, both, or just too much bacteria for the immune system to handle at this point. Lack of sleep could also play a role. On the other hand maybe this kind of farmed salmon isn't that great. Lots of possibilities...
fictor
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Post by fictor »

I have stopped eating salmon after I saw one that had only used shrimp
shells in the feedings for 'color'. This salmon was pale yellow-pinkish.
Not the deep red-pink color it usually has.

This mean all the other salmon gets some kind of color agent in their food
other than shrimp. What specifically? I dont know...

Scary? I think it is.
Iris
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Post by Iris »

Oscar wrote:I order it twice a week at the fishmonger at the Gelderlandplein in Buitenveldert. If it's not too far away for you, it shouldn't be a problem.
Thank you very much Oscar! I will definitely check it out sometime!
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Oscar
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Post by Oscar »

You're welcome :)

Btw, if you just want to check it out, I can just order more and then you can just get it from me, if that's easier. Let me know.
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RRM
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Post by RRM »

fictor wrote:This mean all the other salmon gets some kind of color agent in their food other than shrimp. What specifically? I dont know...
Its astaxanthin (and canthaxanthin, to a lesser extend); a carotenoid like beta-carotene; pro-vitamin A.
Wild salmon naturally ingests it from krill and other crustaceans.
Mostly synthetic (but identical) astaxanthin is added to feedings for farmed salmon, to a greater extend than it naturally would ingest. Its a FDA-approved food colouring, but i dont like the idea of increased astaxanthin intake.
It has been shown for example that higher levels of carotenoids increase lung-cancer risk in smokers.
AnnGrazjun
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Post by AnnGrazjun »

http://www.edf.org/page.cfm?tagID=1540

Check out this link and it'll change your mind about the good/bad nature of farmed fish. Not all farmed fish is bad, some are actually better for you. Rainbow trout is one of my favorites even though you can't eat it raw. The rule of thumb for ocean-caught fish is to avoid larger fish due to higher mercury content.

And this link shows what we all dread...a garbage island floating in the pacific ocean twice the size of Texas (and it's only getting bigger):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx6Owe9j ... re=related
Everything we touch turns to gold...then to sh_t
johndela1
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Post by johndela1 »

Don't all farmed eat an unnatural diet? I prefer to eat fish that eat their natural diet. When you say some farmed fish are better for you, are you basing that solely on mercury content?

What is worse eating fish exposed to mercury or eating fish that are feed farm fish food.
AnnGrazjun
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Post by AnnGrazjun »

johndela1 wrote:Don't all farmed eat an unnatural diet? I prefer to eat fish that eat their natural diet. When you say some farmed fish are better for you, are you basing that solely on mercury content?

What is worse eating fish exposed to mercury or eating fish that are feed farm fish food.
How natural do you think the ocean is nowadays? Some farmed fish are without a doubt disgusting due to poor maintenance and handling such as overcrowding, disease, and chemical/waste hazards that are typically accompanied by careless companies. I read that farmed salmon is one of the worst due to high demand and negligent handling of supply (salmon). Most are sick and die even before any processing takes place. Others, such as rainbow trouts, are better off because they aren't forcibly stuffed in farmed water and thus yield much lower rates of disease and chemicals. Their environment mimics the waters they originally came in so any difference that interferes with their physiology is minute, and shoudn't be looked upon in fear. The choice is ultimately yours, but which would you choose? The 'natural' fish with high mercury, or the farmed fish with low mercury and POSSIBLE physiologic alterations? With all the polluted air we breath in daily and all the unnatural substances we come in contact with, eating fish from a clean farm is my choice...it's ecologically sustainable and doesn't impede on ocean habitat.
Everything we touch turns to gold...then to sh_t
johndela1
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Post by johndela1 »

What a choice...
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