Red Meat

About (not) consuming fresh raw fish and fresh raw egg yolks
fictor
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Re: eating muscle tissue

Postby fictor » Mon 14 Dec 2009 20:58

RRM wrote: (me i love raw chicken hearts)
Haha, I LOVE chicken hearts as well! I thought I was the only guy on the Wai diet who ate raw chicken hearts! :P
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Postby RRM » Mon 22 Feb 2010 20:30

From a different thread:
Kookaburra wrote:What about raw beef? Does it taste bland too? In fact, the taste of raw grass makes you want to vomit, and yet the pandas, horses, zebras are eating them throughout the day.
I always had trouble finding good (really raw) beef,
but after a few excellent dishes of raw tenderbeef in Japanese restaurants,
I realized that its actually very easy; just go for the best: tenderloin.
If you buy high quality tenderbeef, the taste is amazing.
Make sure you dont eat it cold;
you can warm it up in some (hand-)warm water (put it in a plastic bag, naturally)
If you bought the right one, the taste will blow your mind.
Kookaburra
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Postby Kookaburra » Tue 23 Feb 2010 08:42

If you bought the right one, the taste will blow your mind.
Wow, blow your mind eh? Even better than raw egg yolks and raw salmon? I got to try it ASAP! When selecting raw beef, is organic and free range chilled beef okay? Or is there other selection criteria?
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Postby RRM » Tue 23 Feb 2010 18:36

Kookaburra wrote:Even better than raw egg yolks and raw salmon?
The same category.
When selecting raw beef, is organic and free range chilled beef okay? Or is there other selection criteria?
Sure.
Just make sure its tenderloin.
It costs the most, but when consumed raw, you REALLY taste the difference.
Luckily, almost all the raw tenderloin that ive come accross,
was really raw.
gianni
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Postby gianni » Wed 24 Feb 2010 01:24

I bought some tenderloin today, and WOW! it is amazing. I had eaten other cuts of raw beef before and had to do all sorts of things to them to make them edible, but the tenderloin is so good just plain. I was very fortunate to find a 1/2 pound piece that they label the "tail"; it was $10/lb less than the part that they had cut into steaks. That makes it cheaper than the tuna I had been buying, and the store that I can buy it at is only 5 minutes away compared to the 20 minute drive for fresh fish!

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Postby RRM » Wed 12 May 2010 10:05

Initially, we advised against eating raw beef, due to a lack of experience on the matter.
Not so much anymore.
You just need to make sure to consume high quality (tenderloin), non-grounded beef,
preferably previously frozen. (freezing has been shown to be effective against topical E coli)

The biggest 'threat' seems to be E.coli O157:H7 (Escherichia coli)
(which produces Verocyto or Shigellalike toxins, damaging the colon barrier)
Harmless strains of E. coli are naturally present in the human colon,
and involved in the production of vitamin K2 and protection against bad bacteria.

E. coli O157:H7 may multiply between 8°C and 45°C.
Contamination of meat may occur due to poor hygiene in the production process (slaughter, cutting),
as E. Coli O157:H7 is present in the colon of cows.
Mostly associated with eating undercooked ground beef, drinking unpasteurized milk,
swimming in or drinking contaminated water, and eating contaminated vegetables.

Most people recover without antibiotics or other treatment in 5–10 days.
Symptoms: usually mild diarrhea.
Sometimes bloody diarrhea due to damage to the colon or kidneys.
1.25% of E. Coli infections is lethal due to kidney failure, in young children, elderly or people with a poor defense.
8% develop lifelong complications, such as high blood pressure, seizures, blindness, paralysis.
Treatment with antibiotics may increase this risk. (Wong CS et al. "The risk of the hemolytic-uremic syndrome
after antibiotic treatment of Escherichia coli O157:H7 infections.". 29-06-2000; N Engl J Med 342 (26): 1930–6
)
Kookaburra
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Postby Kookaburra » Thu 13 May 2010 02:24

You just need to make sure to consume high quality (tenderloin), non-grounded beef,
preferably previously frozen.
What is wrong with grounded beef?
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RRM
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Postby RRM » Thu 13 May 2010 12:53

What is wrong with grounded beef?
You cant tell the quality of the meat before it was grinded.
Also, the beef is usually mixed with fat and meat residues,
which might have been in contact with the bowels of the cow,
which makes ground beef the most likely type of beef to be contaminated
with bacteria such as E coli.
RRM wrote:The biggest 'threat' seems to be E.coli O157:H7 (Escherichia coli)
A less serious 'threat' is beef tapeworm (Taeniarhynchus saginata)
Its larvae may attach to the human intestine and develop into a up to meters long adult (very thin, folded / curled up).
Tapeworm cannot survive deep freezing; it is killed at -5 degrees Celsius already.
So, again: buy high quality beef tenderloin, and put it in your freezer.
gracie
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Postby gracie » Fri 14 May 2010 01:05

Thanks for the info. I keep picking up/putting down (and picking up, putting down) the pre-packaged tenderloin at the store. The guy behind the meat counter thinks I'm nuts.
It looks good, but I'm concerned about Ecoli and tapeworms. It's really a fear that's been instilled in me (especially in the U.S., where antibacterial soap/lotion/kleenex/cleaners--with god-knows-what chemicals in them--are the norm).
But I got over my salmonella anxiety issues, so I think I'll get over my Ecoli fear. And as for the tapeworms, I'll just freeze it. Because I really want to try some!
summerwave
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E. coli

Postby summerwave » Fri 14 May 2010 19:32

Grassfed beef is marketed in the US as being less susceptible to e. coli contamination than 'grain-finished' cattle's meat. (that is, feedlot cattle who are given grain in the final stages of their growth to market weight).

It is said that the grain is difficult for cattle to process and there is e. coli in their feces. This gets on the flesh/meat at time of slaughter (or can, to contaminate it).

As grassfed cattle are often synonymous with "organic beef" cattle, raised to both those labelling standards, they are marketed as " safe" from e. coli. They are slaughtered in different facilities (must be, by law) than non-organic beef cattle.

Therefore that is what I have gone by (always buy local grassfed beef and have eaten it raw for years). I have eaten raw chicken too for years; never a problem. It was easier to acclimate to than raw yolks, which I "worked up" to/became accustomed to bacteria in.
dandate2
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choosing beef

Postby dandate2 » Mon 14 Feb 2011 12:56

how do you know what beef looks right to eat? sometimes i see this light red colored stuff that i think may be fresher. other times i see beef thats really dark brown, does that mean its hella old?
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Re: choosing beef

Postby RRM » Mon 14 Feb 2011 16:50

dandate2 wrote:how do you know what beef looks right to eat?
You cannot tell just by the look.
sometimes i see this light red colored stuff that i think may be fresher.
No, it just means it has been treated with antoxidants (or nitrite etc) to prevent darkening of the colour.
other times i see beef thats really dark brown, does that mean its hella old?
No, it may be fresh enough, as oxidation occurs rapidly.
djkvan
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Re: Red Meat

Postby djkvan » Wed 16 Feb 2011 21:13

I buy from a local farmer's market. The family that sells it is intimately involved in every step of the process and slaughter at a local family owned abattoir is done carefully so as not to nick the bowel and release e-coli bacteria. I eat medium ground (15%fat). It tastes nice (not mind-blowing) and is only $5.00CA/Lb (tenderloin is $19/Lb). It's dry-aged 21 days - which is less than optimal due to pseudomonas bacterial decomposition and subsequent toxin formation - then frozen. The family won a taste competition at a local university competition between local providers. I have inquired as to the possibility of getting fresh, non-aged beef. I have been told that come June, that will be a possibility. :)
I do so like green eggs and ham. Thank you, thank you. Sam I am.
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Re: Red Meat

Postby RRM » Wed 16 Feb 2011 21:26

Aged beef tastes so much better.
djkvan
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Re: Red Meat

Postby djkvan » Wed 16 Feb 2011 21:42

I haven't compared yet. :)
I do so like green eggs and ham. Thank you, thank you. Sam I am.

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