tapeworm in salmon and cirlcles under my eyes

About (not) consuming fresh raw fish and fresh raw egg yolks
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van
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tapeworm in salmon and cirlcles under my eyes

Post by van »

Hi, I've been raw for over thirty years and have tried most raw regimes. And now having come to wai from a raw diet low in fat, i'm experiencing a balancing of my blood sugar leves, which is great and almost had forgot what it was like. I have concerns over eating salmon raw and unfrozen. I've eaten it many times in the past, but now having been alerted to the potential risk of parasites from this forum, I've done some internet research. The Aniskad worms that can inhabit the small intestines and stomach don't worry me for they can not take up permanent residence and will exit after some time. But the flat tape worms that can inhabit the large intestine, and can grow over thirty feet long and live for over ten years bother me. Does anyone here have a good handel on what the risks are or how to spot the worms or eggs etc. For I can't find that informtion in my research. Also I seem to be having a reacurrent problem with waking in the morning, after eating tuna or eggs the night before, with cirlces or bags under my eyes. I'm thinking my body has problems with protein or fat as a meal before bedtime. I allow three to four hours after eating before retiring. Any suggestions? Thanks
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Oscar
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Post by Oscar »

Hello Van, welcome on the forum. :)

I copied this from the Free Acne Book:
37. Parasites

Probably everyone knows that raw fish and meat can contain parasites, while hardly anyone knows that all prepared foods always contain mutagenics, carcinogenics, and neurotransmitter-impairing chemicals.

The risk of absorbing such chemicals from prepared food is 100% whereas the risk of absorbing parasites from raw foods is almost negligible. Furthermore, these parasites can be easily detected;

In the main there are two kinds of parasites to look out for in raw fish: flukes and nematodes.

Flukes are too big to remain unnoticed. They also are extremely rare.

Nematodes look like big, but short human hair (25-150 mm long, 2 mm in diameter). They lie perpendicular to the fishes' muscle striations (the pattern of striae in the flesh) and have a white translucent sheen. Any merchant - who wants to make sure his customers will not get ill - can detect them using ultrasound. There has been only one case ever of someone who had absorbed nematodes from sashimi.

The risk of absorbing parasites that can cause ill effects is extremely small; less than 40 US citizens get ill each year by consuming fish containing parasites. In comparison: every year thousands of US citizens are bitten by snakes. But does that justify killing all snakes?

Of course not. We only need to be careful. Still – unbelievably - the Food and Drug Administration in the USA forbids the consumption of raw fish!!!

Unfortunately, the FDA considers it no risk for the American public to be exposed to mutagenic chemicals in prepared food every single day, but has forbidden the sale of fish "that is intended to be consumed in its raw form" that has not been frozen first, except for tuna which contains no parasites.

Freezing, however, also fosters the origination of mutagenic chemicals and 'dirty' protein, but to a far lesser extend than cooking, frying, steaming etc. Still…..…

Luckily, the FDA has no jurisdiction over the retail operation in general; "the serving of sushi does not fall under their purview".

Sushi-chefs work under strict hygienic conditions, and in sushi restaurants the raw fish is bought, cut and consumed every single day. You can safely consume fresh raw fish that has not been in the freezer in a Japanese restaurant in the USA. To be absolutely sure that the fish hasn't been in the freezer, you should go to a Japanese restaurant that is frequented by Japanese customers. Among the Japanese, the serving of top-quality fresh fish is a matter of honor. According to FDA-regulations, tuna that is intended to be consumed raw does not have to be frozen first because they cannot contain parasites.

If you like to eat raw tuna, and you want to purchase it in a regular fish market – again - be sure the fish has not been in the freezer.

You should go to a high quality market for high quality fresh raw tuna, where they are accustomed to people eating raw fish, and where you can build a customer-relationship with a reliable manager / shopkeeper.

(See Chapter 45 about consuming fresh raw fish)
I do think the bags have something to do with water retention, but I'm not completely sure. RRM knows more about this.
How much protein (aside from protein in fruit) do you eat per day?
van
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Post by van »

Hej Oscar, thanks for the quick reply. Coincidently, I finally found and talked on the phone for an hour with Dr. Ann Adams who worked for the FDA Seafood Products Research division in Wa. I got her name from an earlier wai forum reply. She is a parasitologist. We spoke at length about wild Pacific Salmon. First, each specie of Salmon has their own specific parasite to some extent, ie, Pacific vs. Atlantic caught varieties. But bottom line is that a high percentage, maybe as high as fifty percent of Pacific Salmon has Aniskads. And they don't really pose much of a problem for we cannot be their host. But reacurrent infections due pose a risk for the stomach lining. One worm usually will be enough to alert with pain or discomfort. Since they due fine in the stomach's low ph level, soaking the sliced pieces in lemon juice doesn't slow them down. She, in her lab, had experimented with a light table to investigate visual detection. She had no luck, and found worms routinely after trying with 'the 'light method' with a lab techique where they 'digest' the flesh of the fish, leaving the worm intack to see. This also was the case with the tapeworm. She has treated weekend fishermen for tapeworm who have not cooked their catch thoroughly thru. With tapeworm, admittedly having a much lower incidence of presence, one will see segments of the worm in the stool, but only after at least one month after injestion and thus once the worm has gone through it's growth cyle. The segments are normally more pronounced if the host, person, has say the flu. For the worm has enough intelligence to let go of most of it's body leaving the head attached to the mucosa wall of the large intestine to grow back. It does this so as not to tax what it thinks may be a sick host and thus not tax it's host to the point of death. Very wierd. She routinely has treated and investigated enough People and Salmon that she considers it a high risk and thus when eating sushi herself won't touch unfrozen raw wild Pacific Salmon. Salmon raised don't carry either of the parasites, for they almost always just eat there pellets. Obviously not a choice I would consider. It does raise the personal question as to what might be a more practical approach, freezing or not freezing. She does believe that if really frozen in a home freezer, that that is enough. This is contradictory to other web site info that says one must go way down below freezing point to kill the worms. She also had the opinion that the anectdotal information about those people who eat high percentages raw are not at risk to fish parasites as being not worth much.
So now I really wonder if we who have eaten raw salmon for years are carrying either of the two types with us and just don't suffer becuase of our 'good' health?
In answer to your question above about how much protein I eat throughout the day, the only other source is from a couple of handfuls of brazil or other nuts after fruit. [ which has a tendancy to cause my nose to get a little stuffy, not badly but to the point where I wonder if it's the right thing to be doing?]
What are your thoughts, if you don't mind? Thanks, Van
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Post by avo »

I was just about to ask a question about parasites, but I'll just post it within this topic.

So what is the final conclusions regarding parasites? I was just eating my wild Sockeye Salmon, when I saw a wriggling small white worm in my dish. I guess the fish really wasn't frozen (they say none of their fish is ever frozen B)). Anyways, it died within 10 minutes, as I kept it isolated from the fish flesh. I have some pictures I took with my camera phone, if anyone is interested :shock:. So is this worm dangerous at all, there are probably more in that fish, yes? Should I slice thinner, and really try to find any worms? I have never really taken any precautions, I barely noticed this time and it was right under my nose. What parasites do Sockeye usually have, and what symptoms do these parasites cause?

Pain from stomach was mentioned before, I sometimes get this after my first meal in the morning, if it is any bigger than 2 bananas (eg 1 mango, 1 banana or 2 mangos). Is this parasite related? Not enough oil/fat? Or just too much too early? Thanks.
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Post by Oscar »

Interesting info! I really have no idea. It might be that we can either handle or endure the parasites, but there's no evidence I know of so far. I personally mainly eat farmed salmon, which doesn't have parasites.

So how much fish/yolks do you eat daily? If you feel like it, you could post what you eat on a typical day.

Avo, do you have to force yourself to eat it all, if more than 2 bananas?
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Post by avo »

Yes, I guess I tend to have the 'clean your plate' mentality, I don't really like to waste food that I have already prepared. So I just push myself to have those last few pieces/bites.

Man, this fish tastes bad today. I guess 3 days in fridge is too much.

Oscar, do you eat farmed because it is free of parasites (and cheaper)? Are there any reasons not to eat farmed, besides being harmful to the waters, higher in pollutants, and being fed less than acceptable food (soy-and-carcass derived pellets)? 8)
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Post by avo »

In my last third of the fillet, I found another live worm, as well as half of one. :shock: I didn't slice thin at all, just chunks/some tearing by-hand. :)

If you think about it, if wild Alaskan Sockeye has worms, wouldn't most other fish in the world? Obviously it must not be too much of a big deal, as countless other creatures eat fish. Unless these are newly evolved parasites that did not exist prehistoricly, I think that man fared well even eating worm-laden fish, ant-and-maggot-filled overripe fruits and strange bird eggs.

:wink:
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Oscar
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Post by Oscar »

So stop cleaning that plate. ;)
Your body tells you it had enough, so don't force the food in.

I agree with you, that we should be able to cope with these worms/maggots/etc. Even more, it might have been one of our protein sources (in fruits). The point is, that I/we don't know in what condition the body needs to be, to handle it.

The reason I eat farmed salmon (even if ...) is that it's easy to get, and so far my body seems to like it. It's not ideal, but then no fish seems to be ideal at the moment. :?
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RRM
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Post by RRM »

van wrote:But reacurrent infections due pose a risk for the stomach lining.
Sure, thats why you might consider to just eat fish that is the least likely to contain parasites, like farmed salmon and tuna.
So now I really wonder if we who have eaten raw salmon for years are carrying either of the two types with us and just don't suffer becuase of our 'good' health?
We all carry many bacteria and parasites, so that wouldnt surprise or worry me, and yes, indeed, very much depends on our intestinal health and defense.
avo wrote:Pain from stomach was mentioned before, I sometimes get this after my first meal in the morning, if it is any bigger than 2 bananas (eg 1 mango, 1 banana or 2 mangos). Is this parasite related?
It may be a parasite indeed. Medication can take care of that very effectively.
Please have yourself checked.
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Post by benzapp »

RRM wrote:It may be a parasite indeed. Medication can take care of that very effectively.
Please have yourself checked.
Just to make my post for the month :) I recently got checked for parasites in January at the request of my girlfriend. Long Story.

But needless to say, after consuming several hundred pounds of raw fish over the years, I was parasite free.

It is always important to remember that non-human cells far outnumber human cells in your body all the time. There is simply no way for any of us to live free of other lifeforms trying existing within us. So, to everyone reading this thread with nightmarish images of creepy crawly things writhing through your gut, it ain't no big deal and you probably don't have them anyway!
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Post by Oscar »

Hehe, thanks for the reassurance. :)
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Post by RRM »

benzapp wrote:It is always important to remember that non-human cells far outnumber human cells in your body all the time.
Its indeed esssential.
There is simply no way for any of us to live free of other lifeforms trying existing within us.
Exactly. We need them, for the production of hormones, vitamins, and also for our defense system.
If someone is scared of being infected, all you need is getting yourself checked, and you will be reassured.
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