Avian or bird flu, Influenza

About (not) consuming fresh raw fish and fresh raw egg yolks
Artirus
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Avian or bird flu, Influenza

Post by Artirus »

Hi there, I would like to know if there is some risk with the eating of raw egg yolks due the Avian Influenza, mostly in Asia, but the probalities that it becomes to Europe are there, I am really afraid of it.

Thank´s

Artirus
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RRM
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Re: Avian or bird flu, Influenza

Post by RRM »

There has not been a single report in the entire world that you can contract bird flu from eating food. So, we may assume food is safe.
toastyinUS

Re: Avian or bird flu, Influenza

Post by toastyinUS »

Yes, but wouldn't the consumption of a raw yolk from an infected bird be a perfect conduit for human-avian contact leading to the mutation of the virus into a human-to-human transferrable form?
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RRM
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Post by RRM »

toastyinUS wrote:
Yes, but wouldn't the consumption of a raw yolk from an infected bird be a perfect conduit for human-avian contact leading to the mutation of the virus into a human-to-human transferrable form?
The eggs from infected hens dont make it into our shops.
Maybe some day they will, but then we have a disaster all over the place. At that point you can't avoid having been informed about it.
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Oscar
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Post by Oscar »

Also, whenever an infected hen lays eggs which are supposed to be sold, chances are that the person(s) who collect the eggs and/or handle the chickens will be already infected before we will. :)
vini00720
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avian flu

Post by vini00720 »

I have been following the Wai diet for 2 months. I never got sick from eating raw eggs; no diarrhea or strong reactions or anything that would cause concern.

From what I have read in Wai's book, my defense system becomes better trained to tolerate the bacteria in raw eggs. Does this apply to viruses too? Is it related to how a vaccination works to prevent you from getting the fullblown illness?

http://health.msn.com/guides/birdflu/ar ... 7&GT1=7850

I cut and pasted the article from MSN below as well, because sometimes the articles are not available after a while :? . Anyways, the article made me second-guess my confidence about raw eggs being okay for me to eat.

My particular worry is that if I got the virus, I might not know it because my immune system might be able to handle it. And then if it mutates into a form that can pass between humans, I might pass it on to my family. My family eats cooked foods, no raw animal foods, and I think they don't have good immune systems because they get sick and they take a long time to get better, while I can take care of them without get sick myself.

So basically I worry that if my defense system is well-trained, then that is nice for me, but my family probably couldn't tolerate what I might be able to handle. I don't want to be a part of spreading the virus or a mutated form of the virus that spreads between humans.

RRM, how come "the eggs from infected hens don't make it into our shops"? Is there some way that they test if hens are carriers of the virus?

Thanks. :)






http://health.msn.com/guides/birdflu/ar ... 7&GT1=7850
Bird Flu

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

by Rich Maloof for MSN Health & Fitness

Concerns about avian flu sometimes swell out of proportion with the facts. Keep in mind what health officials and scientists know to be true about the threat.


You are not at risk of contracting avian flu by eating chicken or other birds.

No virus has yet infected any U.S. poultry. Even in Asian countries where the virus has infected people, there has been no evidence that anyone fell ill as a result of eating cooked poultry. Farmers may have caught the disease while defeathering or slaughtering chickens, but the heat needed to cook the meat kills the virus.


Avian flu has spread as a result of birds migrating.

Because the virus is transmitted from bird to bird, the migration paths or “flyways” of wild birds provide some idea of how the virus is spreading. Flyways run generally north and south; they don’t travel east and west across vast oceans.

The majority of bird flu cases (in humans and birds alike) have been in Vietnam, Thailand, Indonesia and parts of China—all of which are covered by a single East Asian flyway. The paths over Asia, Africa and Europe intersect one another, which explains how the virus has been slowly spreading from one continent to another. Those flyways cross to the western hemisphere only in the Arctic and the far north.


It appears that everyone who has died from avian flu has had direct contact with infected birds or bird droppings.

In at least one case, a man had his rooster in a cockfight and manually sucked mucus from the bird’s beak so it could fight better. Far more typically, cases have arisen in rural Asian homes where backyard family farms are commonplace. Chickens and other livestock on these farms wander through homes and become playthings for children, and they are routinely handled in the process of selling, buying and slaughtering.

(We use the qualifier “it appears” because, in some cases, members of the same family have died and it’s been difficult to confirm that they contracted the virus from the same birds and not from each other.)


The primary concern of health officials is that the virus will become easily transmittable from one human to the next.

The avian flu virus, or H5N1, does not have this ability yet: It is contagious between birds but not between humans. Though the virus has been identified in humans since 1997 without having made this “jump,” it is still possible. Influenza viruses have the capacity to adapt or mutate, which makes them easier to spread and harder to vaccinate against. Experts differ on the likelihood of this adaptation happening with H5N1, and in truth no one knows.


The world is not yet ready.

In November 2005, the World Health Organization convened a worldwide meeting and concluded that nations are not adequately prepared to fight an avian flu pandemic in terms of control or organization (you can download its report here). It is widely agreed that in the future—though not necessarily the near future—a pandemic will occur. Successfully fighting it is a monumental task requiring the compliance and cooperation of every country.
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Post by RRM »

Yes, the better your defense, the better your body can cope with viruses (including normal flu / cold) in general.
If you really consider not eating raw egg yolks anymore, I would only do so after it has been established that there actually is a risk eating the eggs that you buy (in the area where you live).
Your risk to get involved in a car accident is far, far greater.
Would you consider not getting into a car anymore because you dont want to risk that your parents might loose a child due to a car accident?
Cairidh
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Post by Cairidh »

I feel invincible eating raw eggs. If I contracted any kind of virus or infection from them, I would die of shock.
I think if you ate a cooked egg containing avian flue, you would definately contract it.
But if you ate a raw egg containing avian flue, you would most likely not get ill from it.

We all have e coli and salmonella and all the other nasties in our bodies all the time. Our bodies keep them under control.

If you're worried I suggest Coconut Oil or Raw Coconut Meat. It is highly antiviral - lots of people with HIV have dramatically reduced their viral count by consuming half a coconut per day.
vini00720
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Post by vini00720 »

RRM, if I got into a car accident, my family wouldn't "catch" the car accident from me.

Chickens that get INFECTED BUT NOT SICK are contagious for 10 days, allowing the virus to spread to chickens with weaker immune systems.
(Me: the chicken that gets infected but not sick;
People around me: the dead chickens) That's what I'm worried about.

I think it might have been in Wai's book, where it said that a lot of people living close together (like a city) with under-developed immune systems is a disaster waiting to happen. That makes sense. I hope there won't be a pandemic flu, but I think there is a real risk because I have read that H5N1 seems to be able to aquire genes from viruses that infect other animal species. Out of 15 avian flu's circulating now, this is the only one authorities are concerned about.

I respect the work of Wai and I also respect the scientists that have done the research upon which much of her interpretation is based.

This virus is not contained. It is now in 17 countries on three continents, despite expensive efforts to contain it in Asia.

The World Health Organization (WHO) believes the avian flu is a bigger risk than HIV/AIDS because it is airborne. And they expect the virus to mutate into a form that can pass between humans.

Here is a news story from March 6, 2006.
http://www.abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?s ... id=3967066

RRM, will you please explain why you said earlier that "the eggs from infected hens don't make it into our shops"? That doesn't sound right to me. Do they test hens that show NO symptoms, in order to make sure they are not CARRIERS of the virus? Because, honestly, I doubt they are spending the extra money it would take to test every chicken. It is a lot cheaper to kill whole populations of chickens after a few people die in that area.

When the avian flu spread to India in February, newspapers announced that there was no threat, mainly for economic reasons. But just 2 weeks later, masses of chickens were being slaughtered. A lot of spreading of the virus has happened since the first time this issue was discussed on this forum.

My family members don't eat according to this diet and it is their fault/choice that their immune systems are under-developed. But I love them so I don't want to unnecessarily expose them to this threat, because it is much more serious than a 3-day illness. The mortality rate is so high, over 33% who get hospitalized DIE.

Anyways, I love eating raw egg yolk but I am dropping eggs (haha) and just sticking to fish until the virus is contained, and the risk of global pandemic is over. In a pandemic, it is the people who have some level of immunity who help a virus continue its spread to people with low immunity.
Cairidh
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Post by Cairidh »

what about eggs from other species, would they put your family at risk??
ducks? geese? game? ostrich?
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Post by Cairidh »

Ostrich eggs

The ostrich egg is said to have been a favourite food of Queen Victoria. Each egg contains the equivalent of about two dozen chickens’ eggs. An ostrich egg weighs about 3 pounds (1,360g); it would take roughly 40 minutes to hard-boil an ostrich egg.

Quail eggs

Gourmets report that quail eggs are among the most delicious in the world. The eggs are small and fine (about 1/5 the weight of a chicken’s egg), with richly speckled shells that range in colour from dark brown to blue or white. The nutritional content is comparable to that of chicken eggs, with flavour that is comparable or perhaps more delicate. Quail eggs are associated with gourmet cuisine. Some people who are allergic to chicken eggs find that they can tolerate quail eggs.
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Post by Oscar »

Here is an article from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention site:

Avian Influenza (Bird Flu)

Avian influenza in birds

Avian influenza is an infection caused by avian (bird) influenza (flu) viruses. These influenza viruses occur naturally among birds. Wild birds worldwide carry the viruses in their intestines, but usually do not get sick from them. However, avian influenza is very contagious among birds and can make some domesticated birds, including chickens, ducks, and turkeys, very sick and kill them.

Infected birds shed influenza virus in their saliva, nasal secretions, and feces. Susceptible birds become infected when they have contact with contaminated secretions or excretions or with surfaces that are contaminated with secretions or excretions from infected birds. Domesticated birds may become infected with avian influenza virus through direct contact with infected waterfowl or other infected poultry, or through contact with surfaces (such as dirt or cages) or materials (such as water or feed) that have been contaminated with the virus.

Infection with avian influenza viruses in domestic poultry causes two main forms of disease that are distinguished by low and high extremes of virulence. The “low pathogenic” form may go undetected and usually causes only mild symptoms (such as ruffled feathers and a drop in egg production). However, the highly pathogenic form spreads more rapidly through flocks of poultry. This form may cause disease that affects multiple internal organs and has a mortality rate that can reach 90-100% often within 48 hours.

Human infection with avian influenza viruses

There are many different subtypes of type A influenza viruses. These subtypes differ because of changes in certain proteins on the surface of the influenza A virus (hemagglutinin [HA] and neuraminidase [NA] proteins). There are 16 known HA subtypes and 9 known NA subtypes of influenza A viruses. Many different combinations of HA and NA proteins are possible. Each combination represents a different subtype. All known subtypes of influenza A viruses can be found in birds.

Usually, “avian influenza virus” refers to influenza A viruses found chiefly in birds, but infections with these viruses can occur in humans. The risk from avian influenza is generally low to most people, because the viruses do not usually infect humans. However, confirmed cases of human infection from several subtypes of avian influenza infection have been reported since 1997. Most cases of avian influenza infection in humans have resulted from contact with infected poultry (e.g., domesticated chicken, ducks, and turkeys) or surfaces contaminated with secretion/excretions from infected birds. The spread of avian influenza viruses from one ill person to another has been reported very rarely, and transmission has not been observed to continue beyond one person.

“Human influenza virus” usually refers to those subtypes that spread widely among humans. There are only three known A subtypes of influenza viruses (H1N1, H1N2, and H3N2) currently circulating among humans. It is likely that some genetic parts of current human influenza A viruses came from birds originally. Influenza A viruses are constantly changing, and they might adapt over time to infect and spread among humans.

During an outbreak of avian influenza among poultry, there is a possible risk to people who have contact with infected birds or surfaces that have been contaminated with secretions or excretions from infected birds.

Symptoms of avian influenza in humans have ranged from typical human influenza-like symptoms (e.g., fever, cough, sore throat, and muscle aches) to eye infections, pneumonia, severe respiratory diseases (such as acute respiratory distress), and other severe and life-threatening complications. The symptoms of avian influenza may depend on which virus caused the infection.

Studies done in laboratories suggest that some of the prescription medicines approved in the United States for human influenza viruses should work in treating avian influenza infection in humans. However, influenza viruses can become resistant to these drugs, so these medications may not always work. Additional studies are needed to demonstrate the effectiveness of these medicines.

Avian Influenza A (H5N1)

Influenza A (H5N1) virus – also called “H5N1 virus” – is an influenza A virus subtype that occurs mainly in birds, is highly contagious among birds, and can be deadly to them. H5N1 virus does not usually infect people, but infections with these viruses have occurred in humans. Most of these cases have resulted from people having direct or close contact with H5N1-infected poultry or H5N1-contaminated surfaces.

Avian influenza A (H5N1) outbreaks

For current information about avian influenza A (H5N1) outbreaks, see our Outbreaks page.

Human health risks during the H5N1 outbreak

Of the few avian influenza viruses that have crossed the species barrier to infect humans, H5N1 has caused the largest number of detected cases of severe disease and death in humans. In the current outbreaks in Asia and Europe more than half of those infected with the virus have died. Most cases have occurred in previously healthy children and young adults. However, it is possible that the only cases currently being reported are those in the most severely ill people, and that the full range of illness caused by the H5N1 virus has not yet been defined. For the most current information about avian influenza and cumulative case numbers, see the World Health Organization (WHO) avian influenza website.

So far, the spread of H5N1 virus from person to person has been limited and has not continued beyond one person. Nonetheless, because all influenza viruses have the ability to change, scientists are concerned that H5N1 virus one day could be able to infect humans and spread easily from one person to another. Because these viruses do not commonly infect humans, there is little or no immune protection against them in the human population. If H5N1 virus were to gain the capacity to spread easily from person to person, an influenza pandemic (worldwide outbreak of disease) could begin. For more information about influenza pandemics, see the CDC Pandemic Influenza website and PandemicFlu.gov.

No one can predict when a pandemic might occur. However, experts from around the world are watching the H5N1 situation in Asia and Europe very closely and are preparing for the possibility that the virus may begin to spread more easily and widely from person to person.

Treatment and vaccination for H5N1 virus in humans

The H5N1 virus that has caused human illness and death in Asia is resistant to amantadine and rimantadine, two antiviral medications commonly used for influenza. Two other antiviral medications, oseltamavir and zanamavir, would probably work to treat influenza caused by H5N1 virus, but additional studies still need to be done to demonstrate their effectiveness.

There currently is no commercially available vaccine to protect humans against H5N1 virus that is being seen in Asia and Europe. However, vaccine development efforts are taking place. Research studies to test a vaccine to protect humans against H5N1 virus began in April 2005, and a series of clinical trials is under way. For more information about H5N1 vaccine development process, visit the National Institutes of Health website.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So yes, all kinds of eggs can be infected, but no, so far not to worry IMO.
vini00720
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Post by vini00720 »

50% mortality rate! That sucks! It's not worth it to me. Not when fish is available as an alternative.

It's funny; we read the same article, yet come up with different opinions about how risky a pandemic is!

This is what concerns me the most:

On the CDC website under the link labeled "Current Situation" Mar 3:
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/avian/outbreaks/current.htm

Research suggests that currently circulating strains of H5N1 viruses are becoming more capable of causing disease (pathogenic) in mammals than were earlier H5N1 viruses. One study found that ducks infected with H5N1 virus are now shedding more virus for longer periods without showing symptoms of illness. This finding has implications for the role of ducks in transmitting disease to other birds and possibly to humans as well.

That influences me a lot.

Anyways, thank you for the all the replies. I definitely appreciate hearing your views.
vini00720
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Post by vini00720 »

Hey Cairidh,
You are so bad...making my mouth water, lol :P
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Post by RRM »

50% mortality rate! That sucks! It's not worth it to me. Not when fish is available as an alternative.
I guess you never sit in a car then?
(The risk that you die in a car accident is far greater than the risk of getting infected by eating eggs, which is already too great a risk for you, right?)
You cant fly either.
Even bicycles arent safe enough for you.
Or walking down the street...
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