Olive oil and fatty acid balance

What oil? Which vinegar? What about sugar?
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Terence
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Post by Terence »

dadasarah wrote:Did you try it with the OJ? That is more clear. You also must be hungry (lacking energy) for this to work. ...
I never drink OJ because I don´t like liquid food.
I know that juice may be an important part of this diet..

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Post by Terence »

RRM wrote:... But, that doesnt mean you should ignore your body's need for energy.On the contrary. You just need to know where to listen to.
Not to your stomach. But to your blood energy levels; your energy level.
To what extend the glycogen depots are empty you can feel by flexing your muscles. If they feel powerful, you are not lacking glycogen. If they feel weak, there is probably not much glycogen in the muscles.
RRM, what could be the reason that my muscles feel always very strong (and they ARE always strong) on a high animal fat diet without any carbs? Physical and mental strength are not only much higher (in my case) but also much more stable. Concentration and mood levels are phenomenally stable if I avoid all fruits. No 'balancing' and 'energy sensibility' is required. Furthermore I don´t loose muscle mass as fast as on a diet that includes fruits... Obviously you don´t need to eat any sugar to be very strong. Maybe your peak performance in high-speed activities like a sprint is not as high as with sugar but overall strength and endurance seems to be much higher, even while eating only once every 48h hours. That´s strange...

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Post by Terence »

johndela1 wrote:That is a funny question. If you go by the strict definition of addiction (being physically or mentally dependent), I guess we are all food adicts and I guess hunger and low energy is our withdrawl. I don't look at food that way. It isn't something forms a tolerance. But like some drugs, you will get sick if you don't get food, but that applies to anybody, nut just people who sip OJ frequently.
Of course, we all NEED food to be alive. But there is a very subtle difference. 'Feeling a need for sugar' is very suspect for me. I don´t think that this could be a healthy condition. I guess that this is sickly due to an impairment of our system (insulin, pancreas, brain) etc...

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Post by RRM »

Seth wrote:
RRM wrote:
Seth wrote:RRM, could you give an example of what and/or how one would eat in order to maintain the diet on 4-5 meals per day?
More fat and more protein (animal food), and salads instead of fruits. (avocado, tomato, cucumber, oil)
In terms of percentage, what would you have to limit your carbs to? Isn't there a minimum that you need in order for your brain to function properly?
I cant give you a percentage, because if you eat only 4-5 meals a day, it depends on your energy requirements how big those meals are. Also, how much sugar your body can tolerate in one meal, also depends on how easy to digest the foods are (how fast those sugar are taken up), which is also individually different.
I would suggest you better experiment with the ratios to find out what still feels perfectly ok for your body.
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Post by Terence »

RRM wrote:
Terence wrote:'Speedwalking' is a somewhat 'light' activity.
Not at all when you do that all day. Then it requires lots of sugars.
Ok, I agree that you need a lot of energy for this kind of activity if you 'run' really all the day.

After I started this diet several weeks ago I was not able to do my work in my office any more. I just couldn´t sit and concentrate. I feeled a very very strong desire for sunshine AND physical activity and was bicycling many hours per day. Sometimes up to 6 hours. After bicycling, before eating more fruit, I was calm again. Your job perfectly fits to your diet and your high level of physical activity may protect you against possible problems caused by sugar. I´m sure that you wouldn´t work in SUCH a way if you wouldn´t drink so much sugar.
RRM wrote:
Terence wrote:Do you get stomach aches or other digestive stress if you eat a 'little' more solid food?
No. My stomach is full.
I don´t understand. How can your stomach be full if you eat only small meals and juices? Even 4 bananas don´t fill our stomach.
RRM wrote:
RRM wrote:Would you get withdrawal symptoms without your bottle of OJ for, let me say 24 hours?
No. Just very little energy. I wouldnt run. And when i force myself to, adrenaline takes over, and i loose muscles fast. (I have had a situation where i had no choice)
I now understand that our body can´t store energy from sugars. But he can do it perfectly with saturated animal fats. What does 'adrenaline takes over' mean? Do you get shaky or nervous?
RRM wrote:Of course you shouldnt eat them in one meal. There should be plenty of time in between them.
No, even 24h between fruits and meat are not enough. As long there is fruit somewhere in the GI tract correct digestion of red meat is impossible. Egg yolks and fish are much more compatible with fruits, they are somewhat 'lighter' but don´t give me so much physical and mental strength as red meat.

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Terence wrote:RRM, what could be the reason that my muscles feel always very strong (and they ARE always strong) on a high animal fat diet without any carbs?
Because such a diet is high in protein as well, and particularly on such a diet, most of the protein ingested is converted into energy, and all the glucogenic amino acids are readily converted into glucose and glycogen.
Physical and mental strength are not only much higher (in my case) but also much more stable.
Consuming many small meals a day, you need to be much, much more aware of your energy intake and blood sugar levels to keep that stable. Consuming fewer meals, much more energy is temporarily stored as spare energy, and subsequently reconverted into available energy some time after such a meal.
Consuming many small meals a day, its much harder to get it right. And if you dont get it right, you will feel less well and weaker.
Concentration and mood levels are phenomenally stable if I avoid all fruits.
Sure, because that way its easy, regarding blood sugar levels.
Furthermore I don´t loose muscle mass as fast as on a diet that includes fruits...
Sure. with a high fruit diet its harder to get it right. Its easier to get it wrong, and loose muscles.
Thats not to blame on the fruits, of course.
Obviously you don´t need to eat any sugar to be very strong.
Of course not, because most protein is converted into glucose anyway.
Terence wrote:'Feeling a need for sugar' is very suspect for me.
Its very natural.
I don´t think that this could be a healthy condition.
If you dont feel it, thats where it readily gets unhealthy.
If you dont feel it, its much more likely that your energy intake will not match your energy requirements, resulting in obesity and diabetes, for example.
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Terence wrote:After I started this diet several weeks ago I was not able to do my work in my office any more.
Because you didnt do it right.
your high level of physical activity may protect you against possible problems caused by sugar.
No, its about taking in the energy that you need.
THAT is what is protective. And its much easier if you are much aware of your body's need for sugars.
How can your stomach be full if you eat only small meals and juices? Even 4 bananas don´t fill our stomach.
Stomach size adapts to regular meal intake.
Also, how much 'weight it can bear' is adapted to your regular meal intake.
I now understand that our body can´t store energy from sugars.
It can: glycogen and glycerol.
What does 'adrenaline takes over' mean? Do you get shaky or nervous?
No, not at all.
When you ignore your energy needs, and you need to keep physically active, your body will make available that energy, by secreting adrenaline.
It takes over in the sense that it overrides your normal feelings of hunger and tiredness.
RRM wrote:No, even 24h between fruits and meat are not enough.


Thats nonsense.
As long there is fruit somewhere in the GI tract correct digestion of red meat is impossible.
On what is this thinking based?
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Post by Terence »

avalon wrote:Why hasn't everyone over at alissa cohen's Raw Food site keeled over dead, or other Vegans. Yes I've know what BeyondVeg says, but I'm not so sure you can't live without animal flesh. So pop a B12 pill. Is everyone cheating on animal flesh behind the livingroom curtain? Maybe. But I'm still not convinced. Could Gandhi manage it, no. But I'm still unsure, I suppose because I haven't tried it yet. And there seem to be people doing it even though everyone says it can't be done.
If you want to know exactly what happens try it! But please don´t cheat, otherwise your results are not exact. Swallowing B12 pills is cheating, too. Nevertheless all pills are insufficient. Only people who don´t believe in God tend to believe that pills could be good. Nature is absolutely perfect. Deviation from our 'defaults' is always painful. And yes, most vegans cheat and eat grilled chicken occasionally. hehe

On a raw vegan diet you can survive round about 6 years. I have met many many raw vegans. Also some older one without conceitedness who don´t have problems to admit that a raw vegan diet doesn´t work. One of the first symptoms: Sex becomes very very 'dry'. Not much fun. Then your nails become tender like wax. etc. etc. But the cruelest symptoms effect your brain!

On a cooked vegan diet you can live much longer without hard symptoms because your body gets more nutrients. Raw vegetables are mostly indigestible. A fact that over 90 percent of all raw foodists in Germany don´t want to see. They avoid raw animal food and nibble on cabbage. Therefore they usually return to a cooked diet after a while. Most cooked diets are better than raw vegan diets.

Avalon, what kind of diet do you follow at the moment?

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Post by Terence »

johndela1 wrote:without meat you will die? What would the cause of death be specifically?
As RRM mentioned above, I meant raw animal food when using the word 'meat'.

Terence

<RRM>This post has been edited. Terence, please refrain from advising people opposing Wai's views</RRM>
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Post by Terence »

RRM wrote:
Terence wrote:'Feeling a need for sugar' is very suspect for me.
Its very natural.
It depends. In all my experiments fruits became always disgusting after some weeks and I NEVER felt a need for any sugar. Other people on such diets confirmed this experience. This condition could be natural, too.

Furthermore you might be wrong if you see the reasons for many of the results of high fat diets (described above) in the conversion of protein to sugar. Even with very low protein intakes everything is very stable, no muscle loss. I have been on a high fat low protein diet (max. 40-50 grams of protein per day) for six months. No muscle loss. No swings. The fat alone makes it possible.

But what in my opinion can´t be 'natural' or healthy if someone feels bad after eating 60 minutes no sugar. 60 minutes is nothing. And even in tropical forrests which I have visited several times it´s totally impossible to find fruits on every corner, by the way.

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Terence wrote:In all my experiments fruits became always disgusting after some weeks
Talking about unnatural...
I NEVER felt a need for any sugar.
That doesnt mean you dont need, or dont ingest it.
Even with very low protein intakes everything is very stable, no muscle loss. I have been on a high fat low protein diet (max. 40-50 grams of protein per day) for six months.
Let us be clear about this:
No sugars, and only 40-50 gram protein.
What on earth did you eat?
what in my opinion can´t be 'natural' or healthy if someone feels bad after eating 60 minutes no sugar.
Feeling bad can be a perfectly natural warning.
The better you are trained to listen to your body, the more you will feel.
Feeling nothing does not at all support your case.
even in tropical forrests which I have visited several times it´s totally impossible to find fruits on every corner, by the way.
Tropical forrests were not the natural habitat for homo erectus.
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Post by Terence »

RRM wrote:
Terence wrote:No, even 24h between fruits and meat are not enough.

Thats nonsense.
RRM, obviously you don´t have any experience with meat diets.
Try to eat a 1.5 pound raw t-bone steak. You will definetely get digestive problems because you digestive tract is 'trained' on fruits.
On a meat diet such a steak is no problem. And it´s great fun to eat the toughest cuts.
RRM wrote:On what is this thinking based?
It´s no thinking. It´s experience and reality.
Try it if you want to talk about it.

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Post by avalon »

Hi Terence,

Your positive testimony unfortunately still can be backed right up to Douglas Grahm's testimony, leaving some uncertainty for the masses. Everyone has a take on the subject. What is true, is 'nutrition' as far as man's time-line on the planet is still relatively new. I don't know any long term Vegans and maybe that's my cue to listen, and maybe I will look into that more closely.

You wrote:
Nature is absolutely perfect. Deviation from our 'defaults' is always painful.
I'm still not convinced that killing other animals is necessary and Nature perfect. To me, Nature perfect would be living on fruits, nuts and maybe some greens. I am not even trying that yet though. I hear you on the pill/B12 thing. I have long abstained fron antibiotics and only under extreme circumstances consider headache remedies. B12 has been a thorn, but you know maybe years and years ago, man could get b12 from fruits. I don't know.

Where am I now in diet? I am exploring eating methods. All fruit one day, all fish the next, or all fish and tomato one day, all bananas and nuts (plus a munchy) the next. Maybe eggs for two days. I found myself binging more frequently and drinking wine :cry: Personal problems weren't helping, feeling trapped in a home I can't sell, started gaining some of the weight I lost- back (nearly 20lbs) on and my mood shot to hell. One girl on No-carber started an all egg challenge that caught my attention. Even a fruit juice fast wasn't snapping me out of the course I was on (worked twice before) so I ate eggs for two days in a row. Some how these two days broke my cycle and I've been playing with food choices, i guess fairly paleo, and also somewhat Wai(acne book) still. As of today I'm 156lbs, which is ony 2 short of the 40. About a month ago I hit 170!

Today I'm in control. And It feels terrific! This explanation is very encapsulated I know. I am feeling good today and it's a start.

Best wishes,
Avalon
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Post by RRM »

Terence wrote:
RRM wrote:
Terence wrote:No, even 24h between fruits and meat are not enough.

Thats nonsense.
RRM, obviously you don´t have any experience with meat diets.
I wasnt talking about meat diets.
I was talking about being able to digest both fruits and meat.


Try to eat a 1.5 pound raw t-bone steak. You will definetely get digestive problems because you digestive tract is 'trained' on fruits.
On a meat diet such a steak is no problem. And it´s great fun to eat the toughest cuts.
RRM wrote:On what is this thinking based?
It´s no thinking. It´s experience and reality.[/quote]

I mean: on what logical reasoning is it based?
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Post by Terence »

RRM wrote:
Terence wrote:In all my experiments fruits became always disgusting after some weeks
Talking about unnatural...
I don´t understand what you mean.
Most meat eaters tell me that they hate fruits. Taste can change greatly.
RRM, I have been a fruitarian a looong time ago. I can assure you: At that time I was not able to understand these meat eaters.

RRM wrote:
Terence wrote:I NEVER felt a need for any sugar.
That doesnt mean you dont need, or dont ingest it.
You should hear to your body, right?
As I mentioned: I never felt a need for any sugar and I wasn´t able to eat sugar! I know that this could be hard to believe for you but it´s true. Most heavy raw meat eaters can confirm this experience. You are now speculating about conditions you have obviously never experienced yourself.

RRM wrote:
Terence wrote:Even with very low protein intakes everything is very stable, no muscle loss. I have been on a high fat low protein diet (max. 40-50 grams of protein per day) for six months.
Let us be clear about this:
No sugars, and only 40-50 gram protein.
What on earth did you eat?
Yes, I have eaten max. 40-50 grams of protein per day for exactly six months.
Plus TONS of lard. TONS. I looked like a weight-lifter although I never worked out.
It´s really unbelievable how lard stimulates muscle growth.

To made it clear: I would never recommend this diet!
1. It wasn´t raw and 2. fat from porks is problematic due to bad feeding etc.
Other more healthy animal fats (lamb fat is excellent) have the same positive effects.

RRM wrote:Feeling bad can be a perfectly natural warning.
The better you are trained to listen to your body, the more you will feel.
Feeling nothing does not at all support your case.
I would agree but feeling drowsy and weak after 60 minutes without sugar intake as described by several members here is definetely not healthy.
RRM wrote:Tropical forrests were not the natural habitat for homo erectus.
It´s fine that you know it so exactly.
I just mentioned tropical forests because all other areas are much lower in natural fruit existence, savannahs for example, and so they would clash your 60-minutes-sugar-intake-naturalness-idea much more. How much sugar grows on the longitude of Amsterdam naturally?

Terence
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