olive oil & fruits should be avoided? (I'm confused!)

What oil? Which vinegar? What about sugar?
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samaria
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olive oil & fruits should be avoided? (I'm confused!)

Post by samaria »

these passages are from the website below(http://www.cybernaut.com.au/optimal_nut ... faq.html#1)



.......When animal fats are not available, plant-sourced fats such as olive oil and various nut oils (i.e., palm or coconut oil) offer a reasonable substitute. However, a care should be taken to minimise the use of so-called vegetable oils (a very inappropriate name), particularly those, which contain a majority of polyunsaturated fatty acids, shown to be damaging to human health.



............The Optimal Nutrition model dictates that an appropriate amount of carbohydrate should be eaten every day to maintain a required for health balance between various metabolic processes. The best sources of carbohydrate are those that do not contain simple sugars, e.g., glucose or fructose, but contain a complex form of carbohydrates, i.e, starch. The best are various vegetables, including potatoes, which are low in carbohydrate. Products rich in carbohydrates such as pasta, rice and many fruits should be avoided due to deleterious effects on human digestion and metabolism. Certain fruits, particularly of a berry variety, can be used as good sources of carbohydrate, but in strictly limited amounts. The sugar should be avoided, although small amounts can be added to various dishes for taste reasons, e.g., ice cream.




urggg this is like so opposite of wai's diet!

now im REALLY confused...

Guys Help me out with this!!
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Oscar
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Post by Oscar »

That site is completely contradictory to Wai anyway, since the food they advice to eat isn't raw. Talking about cooked foods makes everything different, and even then the information isn't correct and not scientifically based, as far as I could see.

For example 4 cooked eggs per day means a lot of oxysterol (harmful oxidated cholesterol) intake. Yes we need cholesterol, but not in a cooked form.
samaria
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..

Post by samaria »

Thank you Oscar (at least someone showed an interest :D )

it makes me confused and worried to find such contradictory information!
Besides, I found that website where I found Wai's website! :shock:

although I will continue to do wai's diet anyway,
I'm kinda afraid what I put in my mouth is 100% health and safe

How come they say olive oil and fruits are bad?
i thought cooked meat generates free radical thus bad:(?

do you guys have any opinion about this?
and Have any of you following wai diet developed any health problem?
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RRM
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Post by RRM »

What do you want us to say?
"believe us, and not them"?
Try to understand info from both sites, or from whatever other ones, and try to find what makes most sense to you.
You can also just try each of these diets for a couple of months and see how you feel.
samaria
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...

Post by samaria »

yeah you are right
i should try them out and see how they make ME feel
maybe I should be my own doctor??
(cuz there are so many different info and some may be misleading all that)

but since Im not a dietitian or any expert,
i simply lack of scientific knowledge and just seeking truthful advice ,
not that i wanted you guys to say "believe us, and not them"? or anything

:(
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Oscar
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Re: ..

Post by Oscar »

samaria wrote:How come they say olive oil and fruits are bad?
They don't offer an explanation for olive oil other than it contains polyunsaturated fatty acids. It could be that they refer to the fact that heating of non-hydrogenated oils can originate harmful trans-fats. Since we do not heat olive oil, that does not apply to people on the Wai diet.
Read more here: Fats article
samaria wrote:i thought cooked meat generates free radical thus bad:(?
Cooked protein originates harmful substances called HeteroCyclic Amines (HCAs), so cooked meat is indeed bad.
Read more here: Cooking article

It's interesting to note that there are many contradictory statements on that site, for instance their position on energy management is quite illogical.
avalon
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Post by avalon »

Here's a bit of info:
Four factors influence HCA formation: type of food, cooking method, temperature, and time. HCAs are found in cooked muscle meats; other sources of protein (milk, eggs, tofu, and organ meats such as liver) have very little or no HCA content naturally or when cooked. Temperature is the most important factor in the formation of HCAs. Frying, broiling, and barbecuing produce the largest amounts of HCAs because the meats are cooked at very high temperatures. One study conducted by researchers showed a threefold increase in the content of HCAs when the cooking temperature was increased from 200° to 250°C (392° to 482°F). Oven roasting and baking are done at lower temperatures, so lower levels of HCAs are likely to form, however, gravy made from meat drippings does contain substantial amounts of HCAs. Stewing, boiling, or poaching are done at or below 100°C (212°F); cooking at this low temperature creates negligible amounts of the chemicals. Foods cooked a long time (“well-done” instead of “medium”) by other methods will also form slightly more of the chemicals.

Meats that are partially cooked in the microwave oven before cooking by other methods also have lower levels of HCAs. Studies have shown that microwaving meat prior to cooking helps to decrease mutagens by removing the precursors. Meats that were microwaved for 2 minutes prior to cooking had a 90-percent decrease in HCA content. In addition, if the liquid that forms during microwaving is poured off before further cooking, the final quantity of HCAs is reduced.
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/fact ... lic-amines

Best wishes,
Avalon :D
samaria
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Post by samaria »

Thank you so much for all the links and explanation :D
I was still curious about what they are saying about fruits
though all i could find out after some research was this below :wink:
Fruit
Avocados contain tyramine, especially overripe fruit. Avocados may be eaten in moderate quantities, provided that the fruit is not overripe. Banana peels contain significant levels of tyramine and dopamine.

All other fruits should be eaten in moderation, since overripe and dried fruit will contain more tyramine. Common fruits that may contain relevant levels of tyramine include: eggplant, figs, grapes, oranges, pineapples, plums, prunes and raisins.

(**Tyramine is an amine which causes elevated blood pressure and tachycardia by displacing norepinephrine from storage vesicles.)
.
probably eating *variety* of raw food (and in moderation) is the best,
not eating only one particular food, which may cause food allergy ! :oops:
johndela1
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Re: ..

Post by johndela1 »

samaria wrote: How come they say olive oil and fruits are bad?
do they? here is a direct quote from there site, where they say just the opposite:

" The best fats are saturated ones, however, vegetable oil rich in monounsaturated fats (e.g. olive oil, or some nut oils) are also good"

the part that says olive oil is also good

They don't simply say fruits are bad, they say some are. I assume they mean the high sugar fruits (I absoultly disagree with them, by the way)
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Oscar
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Post by Oscar »

samaria wrote:Fruit
Avocados contain tyramine, especially overripe fruit. Avocados may be eaten in moderate quantities, provided that the fruit is not overripe. Banana peels contain significant levels of tyramine and dopamine.

All other fruits should be eaten in moderation, since overripe and dried fruit will contain more tyramine. Common fruits that may contain relevant levels of tyramine include: eggplant, figs, grapes, oranges, pineapples, plums, prunes and raisins.

(**Tyramine is an amine which causes elevated blood pressure and tachycardia by displacing norepinephrine from storage vesicles.)
Problems with tyramine mostly come into play when one takes MonoAmine Oxidase Inhibitors (MAOIs), a class of drugs used for a variety of psychiatric conditions, including depressive illnesses, anxiety, and (funnily enough) eating disorders.

The foods involved are mostly not on the Wai diet. Overripe avocados and banana peels are also usually not eaten. They tested with banana peels which were black and more than a week overdue, also not something which would happen frequently. I couldn't find anything specific about oranges, but as far as migraines are concerned, it only happens with very overripe oranges, and with orange peels.

Effects on healthy individuals have hardly been researched, but so far it seems the effects of a higher dietary tyramine is negligible.
(Effects of a tyramine-enriched meal on blood pressure response in healthy male volunteers treated with selegiline transdermal system 6 mg/24 hour.)

Concluding, tyramine isn't something to be concerned about, if you're not taking MAOI drugs. If you want to be very careful, avoid eating anything overripe (which I'm sure everybody does already). It remains important to make sure the fruit you eat is ripe, though.
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RRM
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Post by RRM »

samaria wrote:All other fruits should be eaten in moderation, since overripe and dried fruit will contain more tyramine.
Thats absolute nonsense.
Like many other amines, tyramine is a very natural amine from amino acids that are naturally present in all dietary protein: phenylalanine and tyrosine.
Its also naturally present in the blood and the body knows perfectly well how to convert it into energy for example.
Tyramine is an amine which causes elevated blood pressure and tachycardia by displacing norepinephrine from storage vesicles.
Only when given in pharmaceutical dosage.
This has nothing to do with dietary tyramine.
The administration of any amine or amino acid in pharmeceutical dosage will have adverse effects. Thats doesnt make protein bad.
not eating only one particular food, which may cause food allergy ! :oops:
No.
Allergies are not caused that way.
If you are not allergic to tyramine, or any other natural amine, you will not get allergic by eating foods high in tyramine.
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