olive oil vs flaxseed oil

What oil? Which vinegar? What about sugar?
johndela1
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olive oil vs flaxseed oil

Postby johndela1 » Sun 07 May 2006 21:02

Why is olive oil recommend as the main oil? Wouldn't flax seed oil be better do it's higher omega 3 content?
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Postby Cairidh » Sun 07 May 2006 21:50

To most experts, yes.
On the Wai diet, no.

Because olive oil is made from fruit.
And flax oil is made from seeds.

Wai says seeds were not designed for human consumption and are full of anti-nutrients to prevent them from being eaten,
and because they contain too much of just one omega 3.

Some other experts say flax oil inhibits the thyroid, causes dry skin, and sends the free radical count sky high, and that this is the reason it has been known to kill cancer - it is natural chemotherapy.

Other people say flax is the greatest thing since sliced bread (or should that be whole grain rice cakes) and is liquid sunlight. Dr Joanna Budwig cured people of cancer, heart disease and lots of other diseases by giving them lots of flax oil blended with cottage cheese. This was because a nobel prize had found that the omega 3 could only be absorbed when mixed with sulfur-containing-protein. Budwig said that seed oils could be harmful when eaten alone.
She used cottage cheese because it is the highest source of sulfur-containing-amino-acids. There isn't a good substitute. The recommended alternative is yogurt but you need a lot more of it per tablespoon of flax. Raw Eggs would be better but they were off limits on Budwigs diet because they were high in animal fat which she banned.
It would be no good on Wai because you're not allowed to blend eggs.
Then again, other people say if you use flax oil exclusively for years you will become deficient in omega 6 because its ratio is so high.

SO
a) Wai says you're not allowed to eat seeds or their oils and its too high in omega 3.
b) Lots of people say omega 3 is not absorbed/and flax oil is harmful if not blended with sulfur containing protein.
c) You're not allowed to blend sulfur containing protein on the Wai diet.
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flax oil

Postby Marty » Sun 08 Oct 2006 19:25

The lignans in flax oil-- which are heavily advertised on bottles of coldpressed flax oil in the US-- are, I have read, phytoestrogens: plant-based estrogens.
Is flax seed oil fine, or not?
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Re: flax oil

Postby RRM » Mon 09 Oct 2006 18:31

The lignans in flax oil-- which are heavily advertised on bottles of coldpressed flax oil in the US
Linseed (flaxseed) by nature contains quite some phyto-estrogens indeed. (enterolactone and enterodiol)
Based on that, I would strongly recommend against consuming flaxseed oil, as phyto-estrogens interfere with our natural hormone metabolism.
Also, its extremely high in LNA (54%), whereas it doesnt contain the other omega-3 fats.
It also contains 14% LA (an omega 6) and 18% oleic acid (omega 9).
So, its not balanced.
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flax oil

Postby Marty » Tue 10 Oct 2006 00:43

It seems that in some brands, there are "added" lignans.

I mostly had a question because of the Wai site's stance on soy's phytoestrogens.

There is one type of cold-pressed flax oil blended with other oils called "Udo's Blend." It includes omega-3, -6, and -9 type fatty acids in proportionate balance. It does not trumpet "lignans" on its label; this does not seem to be the way it is formulated (with lignans added).

Flax oil tastes good to me-- it has a viscous texture that is satisfying, as well as a good taste when it is fresh and scrupulously pressed and refrigerated-- so I wondered.
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Re: olive oil vs flaxseed oil

Postby Mr. PC » Sat 16 Mar 2013 13:05

My dilemma is too much omega 6 from OO.
Omega 3 eggs are again no longer available in my country, so I'm looking into flax seed oil, but as you said above the phyto estrogens are quite bad.

Questions - if flax seeds have phyto estrogens, then won't the eggs of hens who are fed flax seeds have the same phyto estrogens?
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Re: olive oil vs flaxseed oil

Postby RRM » Sat 16 Mar 2013 13:54

Mr. PC wrote:My dilemma is too much omega 6 from OO.
Olive oil is mostly oleic acid (73%), which is an omega 9 fatty acid.
Also, the oleic acid in olive oil is actually beneficial regarding inhibiting endogenous lipidoxidation.
8% of olive oil is omega 6 and 1% omega 3.
Omega 3 eggs are again no longer available in my country, so I'm looking into flax seed oil, but as you said above the phyto estrogens are quite bad.
Just take normal (or better: organic) egg yolks; they contain omega 3 too.
And of course: fish.
Flaxseed oil is only LNA, and not the other omega 3s.
if flax seeds have phyto estrogens, then won't the eggs of hens who are fed flax seeds have the same phyto estrogens?
Yes.
"Phytoestrogens were detected in all foods analyzed (including milk and milk-products, eggs, meat, fish, and seafood)" Kuhnle GG et al
"Meat, eggs and dairy products from animals given exogenous hormones contain relatively high concentration of estrogens."
Chighizola C et al
"supplementing with dietary genistein (800 mg/kg) improved performance, egg quality, and egg yolk genistein content" Akdemir F et al
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Re:

Postby jun » Sat 25 Apr 2015 10:07

Cairidh wrote:
Some other experts say flax oil inhibits the thyroid, causes dry skin, and sends the free radical count sky high, and that this is the reason it has been known to kill cancer - it is natural chemotherapy.

Other people say flax is the greatest thing since sliced bread (or should that be whole grain rice cakes) and is liquid sunlight. Dr Joanna Budwig cured people of cancer, heart disease and lots of other diseases by giving them lots of flax oil blended with cottage cheese. This was because a nobel prize had found that the omega 3 could only be absorbed when mixed with sulfur-containing-protein. Budwig said that seed oils could be harmful when eaten alone.
I have read one of her books on flaxseed oil and both those statments are true according to budwig- which you have written. It is harmful when eaten alone(chemo? kills healthy cells with cancer cells) and beneficial when blended with sulfur based protein so the fat becomes water soluable(not like chemo- helps keep cells healthy)...

what I got from reading the book is this: The Omega 3's in flaxseed is not the primary substance Budwig was after, it was the negative electrons in the flaxseed oil that were the key in getting her patients' bodies to have and produce heathy cells and not cancer cells.

Maybe if a person was already getting a steady and sufficient amount of electrons for their body's cells/future cells to be healthy then trying the budwig's protocol of using substantial amounts of the flaxseed oil/protein blend might not be very useful. If someone's health had deteriorated and was dying because on a cellular level they were lacking these electrons then the budwig protocol may be very useful to get the patient back to good health faster. I wonder what long term effects of being on the Budwig protocol would be. Budwig lived to be 92 and i think advocated regular consumption of the flaxseed oil/protein mixture. fresh flaxseed oil was the highest source of these electrons Budwig knew of. Which means it's possible to get electrons from other sources in lower concentration. Budwig emphasized in her book the importance of using the freshest oils and always grinding your own flaxseeds right before consumption because shortly after the oils are exposed to air oxidation starts and harmful substances can be created. Oxidation is basically molecules losing electrons if I understand correctly. So it seems another reason to eat more fresh foods is for the electrons that are necessary for us to maintain cell health- not just for "material" nutrients.

BTW Budwig mentions Olive oil as being not particularly beneficial or harmful. balanced, useless, interpret that as you would like. She does however use coconut oil in her other book for recipes, perhaps for coconut oils stability when being used in cooking. Maybe that should say something about if it's ok to eat cooked foods atleast once in a while if someone like Budwig, who appears was quite qualified in understanding the human body and food on a cellular level and who had helped people on their deathbed recover with only food, says it is ok to.(dairy included)

The wai diet seems like it would be an electron rich diet since mostlty raw, fresh(non oxidized) foods and fats are suggested. Thats only my guess though since she didnt specifically name any other foods that supply us with electrons apart from certain fats. does wai say anything about electrons in food?
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Re: olive oil vs flaxseed oil

Postby Aytundra » Sun 26 Apr 2015 18:25

Cells & Sulfur
Cells adding sulfur to a molecule could be for good or bad purposes.

In the article Sulfotransferases, by David Goodsell:
http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/101/motm.do?momID=116
Read the "Introduction", and "Sulfonation in the Cytoplasm"
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Re: olive oil vs flaxseed oil

Postby RRM » Mon 27 Apr 2015 18:17

Regarding popular anti-cancer diets such as the Budwig diet (and others), there is not any scientific publication of a clinical study which describes positive results regarding survival. How useful are diets against cancer?
Counseling patients on cancer diets: a review of the literature and recommendations for clinical practice.

The reason:
When cancer is diagnosed, the cancer is already beyond the control of our own defense.
It takes a major shift to reverse that.
Cancer prevention, on the other hand, is a very different ball game.
Cancer cells originate and are destroyed by autophagy or our defense on a daily basis.
This proves that cancer prevention is extremely realistic.

How?
By minimizing the uptake of carcinogenic substances (cooked foods, cigarettes, exhausts)
and by stimulating autophagy (intermittent or chronic fasting, exercise)
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Re: olive oil vs flaxseed oil

Postby jun » Mon 27 Apr 2015 22:53

For those who do know pharmaceutical drugs is the most profitable industry on the planet. More than oil, more than war. I have heard that it is more than both combined. It will be always be in the best interest from a business stand point for these drug companies to make sure their drugs remain the main treatment for all major diseases. 1 patient cured is a lost customer which equals lost profit of around $200,000 a year- ONE patient. So how do these drug companies with all their money, influence, and power make sure their drugs stay the mainstream choice over any alternatives? i wonder...

whats in a name, some people like to say. is cancer still cancer if it is not diagnosed or misdiagnosed. if cancer is never diagnosed then it wont be beyond the control of our defense?

I agree cancer prevention is extremely realistic , since everyone healthy has so far prevented it. :D Im not exactly sure where you were going with your post. I think one part of your post was trying to point out cancer is basically the body degrading on a cellular level right? Well in Budwigs book she points out that certain electrons are neccessary for us to have healthy cells. and these electrons help our cells get the oxygen they need... coincidentally, or not, many alternative medical treatments for various ailments deal with supplying the body with oxygen in one form or another. These oxygen therapies are said to help the body remove harmful substances. So it appears a great way to prevent cancer and/or other diseases is to make sure we get enough of these electrons. anyone else see this as being one of our bodies' most basic nutritional requirements? it would be pretty important to know about these electrons that we can get from the right foods when deciding whats best for us to eat right? or should we wait for someone who has enough money to fund the research and studies before we give much attention to it. No one would benefit from suppressing such info so I guess a study couldn't possibly already exist.

Wai is trying to create the ideal diet for humans, thats why I wondered if electrons were specifically mentioned by wai at all. who knows wai might be the true ideal diet, perhaps coincidentally electrons included, but Im just wondering how thorough an understanding Wai has of what the body needs.
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Re: olive oil vs flaxseed oil

Postby RRM » Tue 28 Apr 2015 15:10

jun wrote:I think one part of your post was trying to point out cancer is basically the body degrading on a cellular level right?
No.
Not degrading. Derailing.
Cancer is human cells acting/developing abnormally, due to DNA mutations.
certain electrons are neccessary for us to have healthy cells.... anyone else see this as being one of our bodies' most basic nutritional requirements?
Sure, in oxidative phosphorylation.
I wondered if electrons were specifically mentioned by wai at all. ... Im just wondering how thorough an understanding Wai has of what the body needs.
Im sorry. Maybe 50 years ago.
Budwig was a very intelligent woman, but some parts of her theories are of course outdated after all the time that has passed since then, which is absolutely normal in any field of science.
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Re: olive oil vs flaxseed oil

Postby jun » Thu 14 May 2015 18:56

RRM wrote:Cancer is human cells acting/developing abnormally, due to DNA mutations.
Oh, I used a poor choice of word there. My bad.

So fifty years ago our cells needed/used electrons to get oxygen but now they dont? can we both agree that that part of her research is still relevant and extremely important. Maybe it's just not mentioned by wai because wai's understanding of how food affects on a cellular level are not worth noting. Would you say how food affects us on a cellular level is important? Scale 1-10, please dont make me laugh too hard :lol:

Science is so wonderfully advanced these days huh? all that research, all those bullet proof studies, all those new wonderful cancer drugs. Beautiful stuff! Cancer is on the rise but it better not get too comfortable, Man's science is getting older! Flaxseed oil and cottage cheese, what were they thinking 50 years ago!
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Re: olive oil vs flaxseed oil

Postby Aytundra » Sat 16 May 2015 14:34

jun wrote:So fifty years ago our cells needed/used electrons to get oxygen but now they dont?...
Jun I am a little lost on your understanding or the purpose of your comments there.
To my understanding:
All atoms and molecules have electrons.
When you ingest foods, it implies you ingested electrons, atoms and molecules all together.
The cellular level is a lot bigger than the electron level.
Food items being a bunch of macromolecules, can affect cells if these cells absorb or interact with these molecules.
Scientist are always adding more articles for our consideration, not all studies are bullet proof, so to speak, but they aspire to explain our world a little better. Not all old articles are worthless, neither is all new articles more advanced than a predecessor. It is which article or combinations of articles that you take to get the clearer picture or understanding of the world.
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Re: Re:

Postby Aytundra » Sat 16 May 2015 14:51

jun wrote:
Cairidh wrote: Dr Joanna Budwig cured people of cancer, heart disease and lots of other diseases by giving them lots of flax oil blended with cottage cheese. This was because a nobel prize had found that the omega 3 could only be absorbed when mixed with sulfur-containing-protein.
what I got from reading the book is this: The Omega 3's in flaxseed is not the primary substance Budwig was after, it was the negative electrons in the flaxseed oil that were the key in getting her patients' bodies to have and produce heathy cells and not cancer cells.
Sulfotransferases August 2009 Molecule of the Month by David Goodsell, Sulfonation in the Cytoplasm wrote: Many toxic molecules are small and insoluble, so sulfotransferases transfer a sulfuryl groups to these molecules and make them easier to eject out of the cell and ultimately out of the body. http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/101/motm.do?momID=116
Sulfotransferases August 2009 Molecule of the Month by David Goodsell, Introduction wrote: Under typical cellular conditions, sulfuryl groups carry a negative charge, and they have lots of oxygen atoms that accept hydrogen bonds from other molecules. This makes sulfurylated molecules much more soluble and easy to recognize. http://www.rcsb.org/pdb/101/motm.do?momID=116
Maybe the flaxseed oil was a red herring item, and the real thing Budwig was after was the sulfuryl groups.

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