Curing olives; Olives Revisited

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BlueFrog
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Curing olives; Olives Revisited

Post by BlueFrog »

A question came up about soaking salt cured olives in filtered, distilled, or low mineral water to remove some salt. There seemed to be a few questions about it on the old board, so I’m starting a new thread here. I’m guessing that part of the reason for the question arose because lye curing was recommended over salt curing on the old board??? If the choice is between lye and salt, I know which I'd rather ingest.

Olives must be cured because they are high in oleuropin, which is both extremely bitter and mildly toxic and causes that ‘stinging’ sensation in olive oil. The curing process removes oleuropin to make the fruit edible. There are three basic methods of curing: lye, brine, salt, oil, and water. More information on how to cure olives can be found here: http://www.emeraldworld.net/curing.html.

Lye Curing:
Canned olives are typically lye cured. The advantages of this type of curing are that it’s cheap and readily available from many sources and they’ll keep for awhile. If you try it yourself, it only takes a few days, however, lye is a very caustic material that can even cause serious burns if spilled on your skin. So, the disadvantages of this type of curing is that it’s not easy to do yourself and it’s likely that at least traces of lye remain in the fruit after curing. You can readily purchase them already cured in this manner, but the canned versions of these olives often contain ferrous gluconate and/or other nasty stuff and salt is often used in conjunction with lye to cure. Lye curing also tends to alter the taste of the olives slightly. And, only green (unripe) olives are lye cured, the black color is formed by bubbling air through the curing solution. So, you’re not eating the ‘ripe’ fruit desired for this diet

Brine Curing:
You can often find these in the ‘fresh sections’ of the cheese or salad bar departments at supermarkets. Whole Foods for example, claims to only carry salt or brine cured olives, http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/product ... lives.html. Brine curing involves simply soaking the olives in salt water for several weeks and it can be done with green or brown/black olives. So, the advantages are you avoid ingesting caustic substances as with lye cured olives and these olives are readily available at many stores. You can also remove the brine when you get home and replace it with filtered, distilled, or low mineral water to remove some of the excess salt. These olives also tend to last for awhile. The disadvantages are that they are more expensive than lye cured olives if you purchase cured olives, they are higher in salt, and if you’re curing the olives yourself in this manner, it takes one to two months and there’s a small chance your olives will rot while curing.

Salt Curing:
Salt curing is also called dry curing to distinguish it from brine curing. Olives are packed in sea salt for several weeks, and the resulting olives are wrinkled in appearance. However blanching the olives is often recommended to remove the salt and ‘ooze’ from the curing process without giving the olives time to soak and reabsorb the water that was leeched during curing. So, the advantages are that this are it’s easy to do yourself, they’re readily available for purchase, and you don’t get a lot of caustic substances. The disadvantages are that these olives are highly perishable and will only last a few days without preservatives, they’re more expensive than lye cured (about the same as brine cured), they’re salty, and many people don’t like the flavor, and if you try to do it yourself, some types of olives are too bitter to work well with this process. http://homecooking.about.com/library/ar ... ruit38.htm

Oil Curing:
This is basically salt curing and then dipping the wrinkled olives in oil. It has the same basic advantages and disadvantages as salt curing.

Water Curing:
These are just olives soaked in water. The advantages are that it doesn’t get much purer than this. The disadvantages are it takes a couple of months stirring and changing the water of these olives everyday if you are curing them yourself (skipping a day or two can result in rotted olives), they are not readily available from retailers and when they are, they’re quite expensive.

So, if you can afford them and get your hands on them easily, I think water cured olives are the way to go. However, that’s not an option for everyone. So, the rest of us have to go without or try to make what is available as healthy as possible. That’s why I often purchase brine cured olives and soak them in water to reduce the salt (I’m only mildly to moderately sensitive to acne). How much salt is removed depends on how long your soak them. You can also change the water after a day or two to increase the amount of salt removed.

Although not the best thing, Salt in itself isn't the worst thing you can ingest either (compared to lye, for example). We do need some dietary salt to survive. And, although this diet provides the requisite salt, it also provides quite a bit of potassium, which is needed for regulating sodium and water levels.

A larger concern with salt curing items is the build up of sodium nitrosamines, which are generally thought to be carcinogenic. http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/f-w00/nitrosamine.html But, this reaction is more likely to occur in cured meat, which is high in both protein (which can be modified to form amines) and sodium nitrite. That’s why dried meat and fish which are so high in protein are considered bad choices. Olives are low protein, having about 1 gram of protein per 100 grams of fresh olive and sodium chloride rather than sodium nitrite is use din curing. http://www.oliveoilsource.com/oliveoildr.htm.

Plus, olives are not usually a staple food. They are usually a condiment or accompaniment to other foods, so there only a limited amount is ingested anyway.

If you want to try curing them yourself, check the produce department of your local stores. The season has just started and you may be able to find some. I found some at Magruder’s last week (if anyone is in the DC metro area). You can also order them online fairly cheaply at places like: http://www.greatolives.com/FreshOlives. ... _are_fresh. I haven’t tried ordering from this site, but if anyone does try it, let us know how it goes.

Olives are a great source of fat and flavor on this diet. So, if you can, I think it's worth trying to work them into your diet. My word is not gospel though. I'd love to hear other people's takes on curing and consuming olives.
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BlueFrog
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RRM
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Re: Olives Revisited

Post by RRM »

Thanks for the thread!
Although not the best thing, Salt in itself isn't the worst thing you can ingest either (compared to lye, for example).
Well, if you are susceptible to acne caused by salt, like me, salt is VERY bad for you, in that it destroys your lust for life.
We do need some dietary salt to survive.
Every piece of fruit, every nut, egg yolks and particularly fish contain salt.
So, even if you would not want to ingest any salt, that would be impossible.

Indeed, fish is high in protein, and during the curing process part of that protein is broken down into amines, which are then available for forming nitrosamines.
But fish also already naturally contains amines (putrescine, cadaverine, tyramine, tryptamine and trimethylamine in particular), which are immediately available for forming nitrosamines when salted.
avo
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Post by avo »

I just ordered 10 lbs of fresh Black Manzanilla olives from GreatOlives.com. They are considered 'field run' and will be of assorted sizes. Nov. 11 (today) is the last day of their 2007 season.

According to my research, ripe (black) olives can be cured in the following ways:
-Dry salt-curing
-Brine curing
-Oil-curing (following a salt-cure)
-Water-curing (and then stored in brine)
-Fresh water-curing (just water)
-Oil-curing (just oil, as mentioned in Good Eats - Season 9, Episode 21)

Obviously, fresh-water and plain-oil curing are what we want to do here. Unfortunately, fresh water-curing processes take the longest time to cure and also have the shortest shelf life. Plain oil-curing takes just as long or even longer, although I am unsure about the shelf life.

Upon receiving the olives, I will make 4 separate batches:
-3 lbs fresh water-cured (larger sizes)
-2 lbs fresh water-cured (smaller sizes)
-3 lbs plain olive-oil-cured (larger sizes)
-2 lbs plain olive-oil-cured (smaller sizes)

For the fresh water-cured olives, I will drain, rinse and soak olives in new water twice a day for the first 2-3 weeks. Then just once a day until edible.

For the plain oil-cured, I will leave the both the smaller and larger batch to soak in the same oil, changing oil once every 1-2 weeks. Or, I could water-cure one batch for some time, and then switch to soaking in oil. Or I could just water-cure all batches and try soaking in oil as a preservation technique. It all depends on what I find out after additional research.

What do you all think? Has anyone else attempted this or something similar since the last post?
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Post by Oscar »

I think it's a great experiment, and am looking forward to the results. :)
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RRM
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Post by RRM »

Me too. You seem to have plenty of great ideas avo... 8)
Gerard
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dried olives

Post by Gerard »

http://www.acneboard.com/AcneQandA/Forum10/000058.html

I have ordered these; they are superb.

I wonder also (I am sure it is covered somewhere on this board)-- if oleuropin is in olive oil too...

The 'de-pitted' olive oil (denocciolato) would not avoid this problem, if it were; I am not sure of the advantage of denocciolato then (?)
Gerard
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Denocciolato oil

Post by Gerard »

Kasper
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Re: Olives Revisited

Post by Kasper »

Anybody here who have done such curing things ?
WaiWay
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Non-Salt Olive Curing

Post by WaiWay »

I bought some fresh olives recently and was wondering if anyone knew how to cure them without salt. The only method I came across was soaking them in olive oil for a several months. Does anyone else have any information?
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