From Paleo to Wai, need guidance

There are lots of rules you can break; so thats what happens a lot...
Mireia
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From Paleo to Wai, need guidance

Post by Mireia »

Hi everyone!
I randomly found out about the Wai diet when searching for acne solutions.
I am suspecting certain foods to cause me acne and many more problems.
At the moment I eat a cooked Paleo Diet. A Paleo diet seems to have done much for me health wise, but lately my indigestion problems have really been giving me a hard time. Some major problems Paleo resolved for me: Pituitary Tumor and raised Prolactin, Hashimotos bettered much, pre cancerous cells on cervix and HPV fully gone.

When I first went Paleo, I was making sure to keep my carbs AND my fat high, with the intention to gain weight. When I did not gain with 3700 cals, I got frustrated and cut out the carbs. They were giving me mild bloating issues then too.
Unknowingly I began eating an almost ketogenic diet (23-69 g of carbs but I breastfeed a toddler, so the carbs are shared). I suddenly began experiencing all sorts of problems, my Hashimotos flared up badly (my TSH was okay prior to low carb), my liver enzymes got very high, i had inflammatory pains and carpal tunnel,  I started having horrible  PMS and abnormal periods, my skin got worse every week (I did not have acne prior to this!), my hair started falling out, I was fatigued and had heart palpitations and chest pain. I also did not look too great, my face was gaunt, deflated, my skin seemed to lack that plumpness that it usually has etc., my weight had also dropped to 99lbs. 
I was advised to eat even less carbs and tolBd this may just be a transition phase, but it did not sound right for me.
I had read a lot of information that talked about the downsides of a low carb diet.
I began slowly raising my carbs. During the time I had also started on herbal supplements for my PMS , liver and acne, and things had been improving dramatically! 
I raised my carbs to about 140-190 g a day. All my problems went away with the help of the herbal detox some and then really disappeared with the addition of  carbs, I also gained 10 lbs.
BUT, my stomach did not do well with the newly added carbs. I was told it needs time to adjust, but it has been two months and my indigestion problems are worse than ever. My acne also came back. 
My bloating got so bad, I often looked six months pregnant and my skin was stretching painfully. I had sharp stabbing pains in my stomach until it moved down to my intestines, where I only had mild discomfort. My stools are mostly normal.  I have been having mild digestive pains for almost 15 years, so they seem normal to me, but I guess they are not.
I began eating an anti inflammatory paleo diet for SIBO similar to the gaps diet, and it did not give me the relief I was looking for. My acne went up and down. 
I got so fed up with the bloating and acne I went straight to the Acne sample diet.
My only problem is- I did not plan this out. I am someone who needs to keep an eye on a lot of problems and when my body gets thrown off all sorts of horrible things tend to happen.

A big concern I have is - how can I get enough calories from this? I need about 2700 a day. I also want to keep my fat / carb ratio at 50% each for now, because my body seems to do well with it.
I can't afford to buy a LOT of fish either sadly. I hope I can do this diet being on a budget (I'm from Germany some fish is really expensive here)
Can I simply up my calories by adding more oil? 
Are there some fruits high in calories and not too high in sugar?

I was once diagnosed with a fructose malabsorption, but I don't seem to have a problem with fruits...Am still a bit worried.

Any advice you can give me to start this diet right would be much appreciated!
I am 30 years old and 5'5" in height btw. 
dime
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Joined: Mon 14 Feb 2011 09:24

Re: From Paleo to Wai, need guidance

Post by dime »

Hello! It sounds like you've been through a lot of trouble, sorry to hear that. I can only suggest you to think very thoroughly before going from an extrem to an extrem. But I've done that too, sometimes we find ourselves desperately impatient and will try anything without much thinking, researching etc. beforehand, and often there's no other way than trying out yourself.

On the wai diet carbs could come from several sources: whole fruits, fruit juices, honey, plain sugar.

Fruit juices (e.g. orange juice) that you make yourself are the preferred choice when you have problems with the stomach, because most often these problems are caused by too much fiber. For example I have often had problems with the stomach, constipation etc. Since I eliminated virtually all fiber from the diet, my gut became healthier than ever. No constipation whatsoever even though I go only once per 2-3 days to the toilet, little to no gas, absolutely flat belly, etc. But this doesn't happen overnight, for me it takes 1-2 months minimum adhering strictly to the diet before seing such benefits.

Juices are not without hidden problems, and it takes a lot of discipline to do this diet properly. Drink little but often, add oil directly to the juice, neutralize acidity to an extent with some baking soda (this is not good for acne as it increases sodium), etc. It's very easy to do it wrong.

For increasing calories I add a lot of olive oil to the juice, which really helps me in increasing or maintaining weight. For me personally 100g olive oil or so is enough for maintaining body fat levels, but sometimes I go up to 140-150g and then I quickly get fattier. But this all depends on what else you eat, etc, so it's very individual. You could also try other oils, red palm or coconut seem to be popular around here. They don't work for me, but maybe it will for you.

I just want to stress this again: this diet is not that easy to do and requires discipline, there are many hidden dangers, you have to be very aware of your needs and how many calories you eat and how often, it's easy to eat too little calories especially with whole fruits, it's easy to spike your sugar if you drink too much juice at once, etc. But it is very rewarding when done right.
Mireia
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat 13 Apr 2013 02:12

Re: From Paleo to Wai, need guidance

Post by Mireia »

Thank you for your reply. The reason I dropped my veggies* from one day to the other, is because I just could not digest them anymore. The pain I described is severe and I need to function being a mom. Sadly, this cuts out some calories too.
I have not cut out my other meats yet and I am still cooking my eggs.

I have been very strict with some foods and avoid things like grains like the plague.
So I feel I have the discipline to try out a wai diet. I will be careful with juice. Usually I only drink a small amount.
And at the moment I don't want to raise my carbs to much so my body can adjust.

* I was not eating : potato, rice, corn, grains, sweet potato
So basically just meat, some fruit and some veggies while Paleo. I eat partly raw. I cooked most veggies, and some meat.
dime
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Joined: Mon 14 Feb 2011 09:24

Re: From Paleo to Wai, need guidance

Post by dime »

I'd really avoid cooking eggs. They are high in cholesterol which is rapidly oxidized and messed up by cooking.
Eat only the yolk, you can throw the white and the yolk sack/membrane.
You can put it on top of meat, fish, in the juice, eat it plain, etc.. there's really no reason to cook it.

There's no need to eat too much carbs btw. E.g. I only eat 120-140g, and it's just fine (for me). It all depends on your needs.

Also meat (raw) is allowed on the wai diet, no need to cut that out.
Mireia
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat 13 Apr 2013 02:12

Re: From Paleo to Wai, need guidance

Post by Mireia »

How are you able to keep your carbs this low with all the fruits? Lots of meat?

I eat 6 bananas a day for calories also so that alone must give me a lot of carbs.

I am cooking whole eggs because they give me more calories whole and the egg white has to be cooked to be safe I thought. I don't cook the yolk fully. I am planning to get used to raw egg yolks and figure out how to replace calories, but at the moment am only having small amounts of it as suggested on the site. To get my body used to the bacteria.

I was planning to keep quality meats on my meal plan (grasfed, wild, lamb) but remove pork and grainfed beef. Since quality meats are harder to get by I wanted to add more fish. I eat good meats raw.

Sometimes I fail to grasp that oil has so many calories. It seems it is not substantial, nothing bulky so it can count as food. But that may be just my thinking from back in the day when I was on a normal diet and loaded up on Pasta. You feel like eating a lot when you eat Pasta.
dime
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Joined: Mon 14 Feb 2011 09:24

Re: From Paleo to Wai, need guidance

Post by dime »

Hah yes good point, sometimes it can seem like you're eating very little calories, because it's little amount of food.
I just drink 1L orange juice, and eat some honey with the meat, and that's max 140g carbs in total.

You're right about the egg yolks, I forgot you should gradually get used to them when first starting. The egg white doesn't really give much calories anyway (it's pure protein, nothing much else), and cooked protein is one big reason for acne.
Mireia
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Joined: Sat 13 Apr 2013 02:12

Re: From Paleo to Wai, need guidance

Post by Mireia »

Oh yeah thanks for reminding me about the protein! I also read that too much protein is not good, but I am unsure how much is too much. I eat about 57g of protein a day.

It is not a bad thing not having to eat as much! :) I am tried of stuffing myself just so I don't starve. My metabolism has gotten more normal though.

So you don't eat any fruits then. May I ask why? Is OJ itself easier to digest or is it because of the carbs?
I found that I like my carbs to be a tad higher but nothing like standard diet over 270.
dime
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Joined: Mon 14 Feb 2011 09:24

Re: From Paleo to Wai, need guidance

Post by dime »

The OJ is very convenient, easy to mix with olive oil and then I don't have to care about food for pretty much the whole day. It's especially useful at work for example, which otherwise makes a raw diet harder. In the morning and evening I eat meat and fish and that's about it. It can be a simple, or it can be a complicated diet, depends on you how you make it :) I like that I don't have to think much about food, cooking, choices, etc.
Besides the convenience there's also the fiber issue as I wrote, for me at least it makes a huge difference.
Mireia
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Joined: Sat 13 Apr 2013 02:12

Re: From Paleo to Wai, need guidance

Post by Mireia »

I am so clueless about diet, I did not understand fruit has fiber :oops:
I have learned a lot but not about that type of stuff. That is how I accidentally went ketogenic, I did not know anything about what natural foods contain carbs and how much.

I often wonder why I have such major digestive issues now. Before Paleo they were mild and I had no Acne. Makes me wonder if my change of diet aggravated the problem. I sure hope this will help an that my fructose malabsorption won't cross my plans. I have been recommended a meat only diet but it seems I would be lacking nutrients on only meat.
dime
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Joined: Mon 14 Feb 2011 09:24

Re: From Paleo to Wai, need guidance

Post by dime »

A meat-only diet is a terrible advice.. even with the fattiest meats you'd eat way too much protein, which is only one of many potential issues.

Drastic diet change can have serious effects on your health, good but also bad. Especially if you don't know so much about nutrition and diet as you say.

Btw, since you're a mom you may want to check the wai baby page :) viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3042
Mireia
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Re: From Paleo to Wai, need guidance

Post by Mireia »

Wai Baby sounds good! My son loves fruit over anything, but he eats some raw meat and fish too. He does not like veggies aside from carrots. He still nurses a lot too.

Meat only or mostly meat (zero carb) is also eaten by some Paleo Advocates!

It seems I have lots to learn about diet. There is a TON of advice that greatly differs (and is all backed by science) so it takes time to be able to distuingish bad from good advice.
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Oscar
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Re: From Paleo to Wai, need guidance

Post by Oscar »

Yeah, nowadays everyone tries to use scientific 'evidence' to back their diet, and for the average person it's not easy to differentiate between valid and non-valid (or relevant) research. I gave an example of this at the end of the Wai Intro article. In general you could say that the simpler the experiment is (like how much of a certain substance is present in a certain food item), the more trustworthy, and the more complex (like the benefit of a high-fiber diet on heart disease), the less trustworthy.
Mireia
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Joined: Sat 13 Apr 2013 02:12

Re: From Paleo to Wai, need guidance

Post by Mireia »

I understand! It is so odd how high fiber and whole grains are promoted by the government. In my experience that caused me the most trouble.

I the end I need something that works for me. Ketogenic Paleo was far from good for me and I don't buy the claims that you iust need to get used to the ketogenic state for a few years.
Plus, I know many on the diet that still have a load of problems, similar to what I experienced.

I have a question - I have not eaten veggies in 3 days and pretty much stuck to the wai diet. The only exception were two boiled eggs and 3 of the coconut pancakes with coconut oil and honey I make in a dehydrator.
I lost 2 1/2 lbs in those few days :( I am hoping it is not actual weight, but maybe bulk and water weight. I also had very soft stools. My bloating seems a bit less and goes away faster. I am also hungry quite often, despite having eaten 2700 cals. Is this all normal? Will I lose weight when I am hungry despite taking in a lot of calories?
I just want to make sure to maintain a healthy weight so I can give the diet a good try. If I lose too much I get weak.
dime
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Joined: Mon 14 Feb 2011 09:24

Re: From Paleo to Wai, need guidance

Post by dime »

Short term variations in weight are meaningless, and they often come along with change in the type of food you eat. You can't lose 1kg of actual weight in 3 days, even if you water fast.. Perhaps monitor the weight daily for a week or so and note the trend, if it's linearly going down then something is definitely wrong.

If you feel hungry just eat more, forget about the calories, they should simply serve as some sort of reference but not a definite guide. It's strange though that you need 2700 kcal.. I'm 6'3" and am ok with around 2400-2500 kcal. But I guess it's all down to individual metabolism, activity level, ability to digest food.
Mystic
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Joined: Sat 13 Apr 2013 11:21

Re: From Paleo to Wai, need guidance

Post by Mystic »

dime wrote:The OJ is very convenient, easy to mix with olive oil and then I don't have to care about food for pretty much the whole day. It's especially useful at work for example, which otherwise makes a raw diet harder. In the morning and evening I eat meat and fish and that's about it. It can be a simple, or it can be a complicated diet, depends on you how you make it :) I like that I don't have to think much about food, cooking, choices, etc.
Besides the convenience there's also the fiber issue as I wrote, for me at least it makes a huge difference.
Hi, I'm Mireia's husband. I'm also new to the diet!

I have a question regarding the OJ. Does it keep you "full"? I get the impression that only drinking juice, even with fat, would leave me constantly hungry. Does the meat add to the satisfaction?
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