Life expectancy and Diet

Cancer, Diabetes, Osteoporosis etc.
Roman
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Life expectancy and Diet

Post by Roman »

Recently I've spent one week in Berlin.

Wonderful city to live in (IMO), but I've been very impressed by their diet: they eat unbelievable quantity of Wurst all the day long (from 8.00 am until night), drink hectoliters of beer (since the age of 14/15) and tons of potatoes; also cappuccino is a very common beverage.

Not so many fruits or vegetables in their diet (contrary to what happens here in Italy).

I've come back to Rome and made some research.

Life expectancy in Germany (year 2003) is 76 for men and 81 for women, in Italy (year 2003) is 77 for men and 83 for women.

Very similar.

Obviously I don't think Italian Standard Diet is the best diet in the world, but, if diet is so important, I expected the difference in life expectancy to be very wider.

We also drink wine and eat BAD PROTEIN, but in my opinion there is no comparison between our diet and theirs.


So now I've a doubt:

is diet (and in particular PROTEIN and FAT... oops BAD PROTEIN AND BAD FAT) so important with regard to duration of life?

And if it is, what's the explanation for this similar results?
nick
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Post by nick »

Everyone's senstivity is different to certain substances.
We always say around waisays.com that some people can smoke two packs a day and still not die of cancer. Some people do have immunity to HIV. Some people are very sensitive to certain substances and some don't feel anything from them.

But we do know that heated and thus now originated substances from cooking can do harm to our bodies. Heated choloesterol, protein and fat has been shown to be found in clogged arteries, and that beta-carbolines and opiates can affect the brain. These are not good for the species in terms of aiding in survival and they make life miserable and shorter in the long term intake.

I do know that by loooking at calcium intake you can see a trend in how it affects hip-fracture. It would be a very interesting study for those who see the value of perhaps taking a close look at the Wai Diet on the body in the long term. I'm sure we would learn so much more about how our body works and compare how it does to the current trends in diet. It could only be to our benefit.
Frost
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Post by Frost »

i think that diet really plays a visible role in how well we age aesthetically speaking. ya sure the german diet might have alot of bad food, and they may have a similar life expectancy, but for the most part they will also be more out of shape.
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Oscar
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Post by Oscar »

Don't Italians also eat quite a bit of cooked meat and fish? Not to mention pasta... I thought a traditional diet consisted of 4 courses usually: appetizer, antipasto, meat/fish course, dessert?
Roman
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Post by Roman »

nick wrote: Everyone's senstivity is different to certain substances.
We always say around waisays.com that some people can smoke two packs a day and still not die of cancer. Some people do have immunity to HIV. Some people are very sensitive to certain substances and some don't feel anything from them.
I agree with you, Nick, but when they talk about LIFE EXPECTANCY they don't consider ONE MAN or ONE WOMAN.

They consider all the people in that country.

LIFE EXPECTANCY is the number of years that an individual is expected to live as determined by statistics.

Obviously A MAN (ONE MAN) could eat fried bacon, beer and wurst and live until 120.
Oscar wrote: I thought a traditional diet consisted of 4 courses usually: appetizer, antipasto, meat/fish course, dessert?
Unfortunately you're so wrong.

Italian traditional diet isn't the same as a "normal" lunch in a restaurant.

Italians eat meat and fish, but of course non everyday and NOT AS MUCH AS GERMAN DO.

We very seldom ave appetizer and antipasto, maybe on a friend's birthday or something similar, dessert on Sunday, sometimes.

We often eat for lunch (or dinner) pasta (with tomatoes, onion or garlic, E.V. olive oil) and mixed insalata (lettuce or other), a fruit (usually an apple) and stop.

Sometimes we substitute pasta with a meat/fish course, but not everyday.

In the South of Italy, they eat more vegetables and fruit than in the North, and more fish than meat.
Frost
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Post by Frost »

see, the difference between a normal north american diet and a european diet, yes im generalizing, is that for the most part NA only eats high fat or high sugar foods, with little nutritional value. comparatively europeans eat high fat foods, but they also contain a good nutritional value to slightly counter act the negative effects.
DarkGalaxy
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Post by DarkGalaxy »

Strange though... I guess it's really just about going 100% raw and being lucky in life. For me, it's more about quality of life, having more energy and the aesthetic reasons than about longevity.
What's the average weight in proportion to height between the two countries?
Do Italians generally weigh less than Germans for example? I think longevity has to do with how thin you are (healthy + thin => longevity).

>yuck< wurst LOL
Wurst with cappuccino hahahaha!!
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Post by johndela1 »

Many people believe that the amount of calories you eat can have a big implact on how long you live.

check out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorie_restriction
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Oscar
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Post by Oscar »

Roman wrote:
Oscar wrote: I thought a traditional diet consisted of 4 courses usually: appetizer, antipasto, meat/fish course, dessert?
Unfortunately you're so wrong.
I see I made a mistake there...I meant to say "dinner" instead of "diet". :?

Anyway, is the way you used to eat representative of most italians?
Italians also eat their food prepared, and vegetables have antinutrients and toxic substances.

It always surprised me how much food is not okay to eat, without it seeming so. Like eating nuts is supposed to be healthy, even on this diet. But then if you don't realize you're eating nuts shelled by heat, you're still getting lots of toxins.
Roman
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Post by Roman »

Oscar wrote: I see I made a mistake there...I meant to say "dinner" instead of "diet". :?
I think your mistake is not to confuse "diet" with "dinner", maybe to think Italian diet to be comparable to German.
Oscar wrote: Anyway, is the way you used to eat representative of most italians?
Well, actually I'm not talking about the way I use to eat, I'm talking about the way Italians and Germans use to eat.
Oscar wrote: Italians also eat their food prepared, and vegetables have antinutrients and toxic substances.
It always surprised me how much food is not okay to eat, without it seeming so.
I thought eating a couple of Wurst wasn't exactly the same thing as pasta, tomatoes and E.V. oil.

And that Wurst and similar things were far more harmul for health.

Maybe I was wrong.

Many people, here in Italy, don't eat in the German way just to preserve their health, because they think it's more dangerous than eating pasta or pizza.

If they only knew that there's no difference with regard to duration of life between us and them, I think they'd change their diet at once
.
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Oscar
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Post by Oscar »

Roman wrote:I think your mistake is not to confuse "diet" with "dinner", maybe to think Italian diet to be comparable to German.
Every diet is comparable to another one, especially if you break it down to specific nutrients/substances consumed.
Roman wrote:Well, actually I'm not talking about the way I use to eat, I'm talking about the way Italians and Germans use to eat.
So, do you know exactly how every italian and german person eats? I don't think so.
Roman wrote:I thought eating a couple of Wurst wasn't exactly the same thing as pasta, tomatoes and E.V. oil.
I believe you're thinking too simplistic here. In the end it matters how much harmful substances you ingest. It doesn't matter in which form you ingest them.
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Post by Roman »

Oscar wrote: Every diet is comparable to another one, especially if you break it down to specific nutrients/substances consumed.
"They're not comparable" = "There is a BIG DIFFERENCE".

Sorry for my English. Something has a sense in Italian, but not in English...

Oscar wrote: So, do you know exactly how every italian and german person eats? I don't think so.
In that sense you're right: I haven't talked to every SINGLE person in Germany and in Italy to know what they eat.

But this means nothing.

I know many many people in Italy and in Germany. I know what they eat.

Your answer looks like: "How could you say the moon is in the sky? Have you ever been there?!?" :shock:
Oscar wrote: I believe you're thinking too simplistic here. In the end it matters how much harmful substances you ingest. It doesn't matter in which form you ingest them.
Then you think WURST = Pasta ... with regard to health.
Is that correct?
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Post by Oscar »

Roman wrote:"They're not comparable" = "There is a BIG DIFFERENCE".
Even if (you think) there's a big difference, you can still compare them. I can easily give you 10 similarities:
1. Both diets contain protein
2. Both diets contain carbohydrates
3. Both diets contain fat
4. Both diets contain vitamins
5. Both diets contain minerals
6. Both diets contain opioid peptides
7. Both diets contain HCAs
8. Both diets contain trans-fats
9. Both diets contain oxysterols
10. Both diets contain vegetables
etc.
Oscar wrote:Your answer looks like: "How could you say the moon is in the sky? Have you ever been there?!?" :shock:
So the question is, which I mentioned in an earlier post: is what you know representative for the average population in either country? Germany has a population of almost 82.5 million people, Italy about 57.5 million. Also social environment plays a big role. Lower-class and/or poor people usually have a different diet than higher-class and/or rich people.

Btw, the moon is not in the sky but in space. ;)
Roman wrote:
Oscar wrote: I believe you're thinking too simplistic here. In the end it matters how much harmful substances you ingest. It doesn't matter in which form you ingest them.
Then you think WURST = Pasta ... with regard to health.
Is that correct?
Like I said, it's not that simple. There are many factors involved in a diet, and together they determine how healthy the diet is.
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Post by Roman »

Oscar wrote: Even if (you think) there's a big difference, you can still compare them.
Oscar, sure you can!

But...

"Consuming prepared meat increases the risk of contracting lung cancer, breast cancer, prostate cancer, and colon cancer. This only means that prepared meat contains more mutagenic substances than prepared food.".

So I thought that people who assume a lot of prepared MEAT (sorry, prepared wurst... that is prepared protein and prepared fat and prepared something else) would have a shorter life expectancy.

Just this.
Oscar wrote: The moon is not in the sky but in space. ;)
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Oscar wrote: Like I said, it's not that simple. There are many factors involved in a diet, and together they determine how healthy the diet is.
If I drank a lot of wine (one liter a day) then wouldn't you tell me my diet to be very harmful to me?

Or you'd tell me that "there are many factors involved in a diet" ?
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Post by Oscar »

Roman wrote:"Consuming prepared meat increases the risk of contracting lung cancer, breast cancer, prostate cancer, and colon cancer. This only means that prepared meat contains more mutagenic substances than prepared food.".
I think this sentence isn't quite precise enough. Look here (from the Cooking article):
How much HCA originate depends on how much protein the food contains and on how much the food is heated. (14)

Because red meat contains high levels of both protein and creatinine (originating creatine), prepared red meat contains most HCA, especially when grilled (15). Besides prepared red meat, also prepared fish, soy and poultry contain lots of HCA. (16) Flavor-enhancers and bouillon contain protein-concentrates and therefore contain lots of HCA too. (11) But also prepared foods containing less protein contain HCA, like prepared grains (17) and -vegetables (18), and even foods like beer, soy sauce and canned orange juice. (19)
Roman wrote:So I thought that people who assume a lot of prepared MEAT (sorry, prepared wurst... that is prepared protein and prepared fat and prepared something else) would have a shorter life expectancy.
Yeah I understood your reasoning, but there's so many toxins around, that apparently the meat isn't just the only factor determining that.
Roman wrote:If I drank a lot of wine (one liter a day) then wouldn't you tell me my diet to be very harmful to me?

Or you'd tell me that "there are many factors involved in a diet" ?
It depends on the rest of your diet. If you would be on the Wai Diet, then I'd just mention that wine is still toxic, so a burden on your liver, but that otherwise you were doing fine. If your diet would consist only of fast food, then I'd probably tell you your diet would be very harmful to you, including the wine.
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