Ketosis... HELP...

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DarkGalaxy
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Ketosis... HELP...

Post by DarkGalaxy »

Ok, I'm just pretty confused. I've been on the raw fatty Wai diet for 29 days now (see PMS problems and my latest update thread) and I bought some new ketostix the other day (the ones I was using before apparently were past their due date). I am still in ketosis, still very purple.
There is so much conflicting info about ketosis on the web... I am really confused.

I'll list my foods again:
Avocados
Olive oil
Salmon (50 g on salmon days)
Egg yolks (3 on yolk days)
Walnuts
Cucumbers

I was researching on this board about ketosis, and I found this post by RRM:
Its never the foods that 'spike you out', but the number of calories consumed in one meal. Not just from sugars, but even more so from protein (so have studies shown us), and also from fat.
So, you can perfectly consume high GI foods, as long as the total ingested amount is just right to replenish lost blood-energy.
As much so, you can readily 'spike you out of ketosis' by consuming a meal containing only low GI foods, simply because its a bit too big or because it contains lots of protein.
I'm someone to regularly eat huge meals (mainly fats) but I have always had the same color on my ketostix for 29 days... mornings, afternoons, evenings, always the same. HUH??

Also, well at first I lost some weight (maybe 0.5 to 1 kg, not sure), then I gained it back (because of eating too many calories), then I lost another 0.5 kg so overall I haven't gained or lost a lot and I've tried very hard not to ever run on empty (except when sleeping of course) and to eat 9 meals a day, but... is it true that burning muscle for fuel would result in dirty protein in the blood? Ok now I believe when in ketosis (and on my diet) I mainly burn fat, but some sources say ketosis means you're burning protein (muscle). I was wondering... in the past (before going raw) when I would eat way too little calories, I would be skinny yet retain water... was this because I was burning muscle tissue for energy (resulting in dirty protein in my blood/skin) or could it be because when we lose body fat, this will be replaced with water or is that another myth???

I only eat maximally 10 g of animal protein (yolks or salmon sashimi) a day, so I am in ketosis not because of a high-protein diet. I am on a high raw fat, low raw carbo diet (not very Waiish actually).

Again, my main goal is to lose my cellulite, so to be on a very safe diet/ habitual system that will not allow any water retention other than hormonal, for one or two years. Apart from that I want to slow the aging of my skin, be as healthy as possible and I want to be as fit and fat-free/ toned as I can while eating plenty of calories or never eating too little calories.
So... with my raw fatty diet and with being in ketosis, am I putting myself at risk for osteoporosis or is that only when people are eating loads of protein foods? Am I causing cell damage?

Is there any reason according to you, RRM why I shouldn't be in ketosis?

I am willing to try this diet for several months or even longer just to see how it would work for me. So far I'm doing fine. I don't really miss the sweet fruits all that much, to be honest. I could not do this without cucumbers though (otherwise I would be too constipated anyway from the nuts and avo's).
I have been in deep ketosis for almost a month, I think if I would eat some medium glycemic fruits I could probably change to being in mild ketosis as opposed to deep ketosis... I am just wondering why it would be preferable to be in ketosis... I read that ketosis causes water to be forced out of the fat cells... (?) so maybe this could help me get rid of cellulite? I read that eating more sugars will make me hold more water. :(

For me, it doesn't matter... I could keep doing this without a problem or stop it and be fine with that too. The reason I even started this is to lose fat without feeling depressed but I haven't really lost any weight yet (I'm taking it slow). I do feel pretty stable mentally, although a little stressed (PMS).

O ya, another thing is that supposedly (no idea if this is true either) ketobreath is cause by either too much or too little animal protein intake. I definitely have ketobreath :(... but is that even true? According to this one site it could be corrected by eating the sufficient amt. of protein, which for my body that would be about 47 g or something a day (!!!) hahahahaha. Ya right. So supposedly, if you were to eat too little protein, you would burn muscle tissue which would also result in ketobreath. Why is it that people can't figure out whether ketones come from fat or protein???

The other way to get rid of ketobreath is to drink liquid chlorophyll... not a Wai thing either :(. I guess I'll be a cutey with horrible breath then lol.


:D
DarkGalaxy
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Post by DarkGalaxy »

I guess the 'right amount of protein for my body' according to this one website is 37.44 g a day. Not that it matters.
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RRM
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Re: Ketosis... HELP... RRM please?

Post by RRM »

DarkGalaxy wrote:I'm someone to regularly eat huge meals (mainly fats) but I have always had the same color on my ketostix for 29 days... mornings, afternoons, evenings, always the same. HUH??
I dont why that is.
I dont know how reliable those sticks are.
is it true that burning muscle for fuel would result in dirty protein in the blood?
Not dirty protein, but, yes, it may temporarily lead to increased serum protein levels, which may result in acne.
Ok now I believe when in ketosis (and on my diet) I mainly burn fat, but some sources say ketosis means you're burning protein (muscle).
Yes, both fat and protein.
in the past (before going raw) when I would eat way too little calories, I would be skinny yet retain water... was this because I was burning muscle tissue for energy (resulting in dirty protein in my blood/skin) or could it be because when we lose body fat, this will be replaced with water or is that another myth???
It could be because of the cooked foods you ate. The bodyfat will not be replaced by water. Its just that it seems that way because when you are fat, the swollen skin is not noticed, as it is seen as fat. Only once you have become skinny, it appears that your skin retains too much water.
with my raw fatty diet and with being in ketosis, am I putting myself at risk for osteoporosis
No, osteoporosis is not caused that way.
Am I causing cell damage?
I dont see how.
Is there any reason according to you, RRM why I shouldn't be in ketosis?
Yes, if your body tells you that it prefers not to be in ketosis; if you feel better (happier, fitter) consuming more carbs / protein.
Other than that, because of your specific condition, i dont regard it as dangerous.
I have been in deep ketosis for almost a month
Before that you were not?
I read that eating more sugars will make me hold more water.
No, that is not true, unless your blood-glucose level is not properly regulated (which might be true in your case).
I definitely have ketobreath :(... but is that even true? According to this one site it could be corrected by eating the sufficient amt. of protein
That is true.
which for my body that would be about 47 g or something a day
That depends on what you eat exactly. All foods contain protein.
Submitting a 'guess' (35 gram walnuts, 2 avo, 1 cucumber) of your version of the diet to the nutrient calculator, it appears to contain 23 grams of protein. It contains 598 methionine + 239 cysteine (418 on average). That 418 mg is more than minimally required (238 mg), but less than adviced (780 mg).
However, if you dont eat very frequently, more protein gets lost due to muscle to energy conversion, so, to be a little more on the safe side, I advice to increase your salmon intake to 70 grams (4 egg yolks).
Why is it that people can't figure out whether ketones come from fat or protein???
Because the ketone bodies from protein and fat are the same. They come from the same energy cycle.
DarkGalaxy
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Post by DarkGalaxy »

RRM wrote:
DarkGalaxy wrote: I'm someone to regularly eat huge meals (mainly fats) but I have always had the same color on my ketostix for 29 days... mornings, afternoons, evenings, always the same. HUH??
I dont why that is.
I dont know how reliable those sticks are.
Hmmm interesting... what would actually be considered a meal that was too big? I aim for 1500 calories, 9 meals a day, so every meal is about 125 - 166
calories, but sometimes I might eat more (for example after a long walk). Instead of eating munch foods (which I don't eat) I might eat two avocados with olive oil at one sitting for example. I used to think that for me, everything over 300 calories is too much at one sitting...
Not dirty protein, but, yes, it may temporarily lead to increased serum protein levels, which may result in acne.
Can this be bad regarding cellulite (as I've mentioned before, I am trying to have a really strict diet for 1 or 2 years at least, to get rid of my cellulite)?
I have been in deep ketosis for almost a month
Before that you were not?
That's right. I started on this diet modification a month ago, after we talked about it in that PMS problems thread. I've been in ketosis according to the ketostix for pretty much a month now. I don't know how reliable those ketostix are either but they are normally used by diabetics so I hope they are. I certainly have had ketobreath this whole month. Before the diet change, I ate all Wai foods except the oj/o.o/sugar combo. I didn't regularly eat sashimi, just yolks.
However, if you dont eat very frequently, more protein gets lost due to muscle to energy conversion, so, to be a little more on the safe side, I advice to increase your salmon intake to 70 grams (4 egg yolks).
I eat very frequently and I am finally getting used to eating 9 small meals a day, which was hard to do. I never go without food for too long, except when sleeping. I don't know if I could tolerate 70 g of salmon regarding my cellulite... could be but it's hard to tell, especially during this time of the month... by the way... my period is painless so far. :D
By the way, the protein recommendation for my body would be about 37.44 g a day (not 47 g). I'll check my intake in the nutrient calculator and make sure.

Yesterday:

Water.........................................460.69650g ..............?g
Energy.......................................1485.10586kcal ......650.00kcal
Protein quality...................................31.39%
Protein........................................24.37670g ..........13.00g
-Methionine.....................................0.51192g .......58mg/kg (FAO/WHO 85)
-Cysteine.......................................0.33854g .......58mg/kg (FAO/WHO 85) no data:5
Total lipid (Fat).............................147.05857g ..............?g
Carbohydrate...................................39.13720g ..............?g no data:2
Fiber, total dietary...........................25.01660g ..............?g no data:2

A recent Sashimi-day:

Water........................................1116.93940g ..............?g
Energy.......................................1489.74063kcal ......650.00kcal
Protein quality...................................29.80%
Protein........................................31.63529g ..........13.00g
-Methionine.....................................0.69887g .......58mg/kg (FAO/WHO 85)
-Cysteine.......................................0.34874g .......58mg/kg (FAO/WHO 85) no data:5
Total lipid (Fat).............................140.69318g ..............?g
Carbohydrate...................................60.41210g ..............?g
Fiber, total dietary...........................32.64460g ..............?g
-Fibre, wat. sol................................1.08599g ..............?g no data:1,2,3,4
-Fibre, wat. ins................................2.82360g ..............?g no data:1,2,3,4

You're right!
So this web site uses the calculation (weight in lbs) x 0.36 to calculate your protein requirements. (for me 104 x 0.36 = 37.44) What do you think of this?

Thanks, very insightful as usual RRM!!!!!!!!!!!!



:)
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Post by RRM »

DarkGalaxy wrote:what would actually be considered a meal that was too big?
Not your meals
I aim for 1500 calories
Thats too little, so that you will be losing muscles for energy.

Not dirty protein, but, yes, it may temporarily lead to increased serum protein levels, which may result in acne.
Can this be bad regarding cellulite (as I've mentioned before, I am trying to have a really strict diet for 1 or 2 years at least, to get rid of my cellulite)?
No, not really, but it is bad for your health though (the breakdown of essential tissue proteins)
I certainly have had ketobreath this whole month.
Due to a lack of energy (1500 kcal is too little)

this web site uses the calculation (weight in lbs) x 0.36 to calculate your protein requirements. (for me 104 x 0.36 = 37.44) What do you think of this?
Its generally ok (given the adequate protein quality)
DarkGalaxy
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Post by DarkGalaxy »

I'm sorry, I think I haven't explained myself correctly.

Over the past 30 days, my intake has been an average of 1785 calories a day (possibly a little more since I count 167 calories per 100 g avo instead of 177, like the nutrient calculator).
My weight has been pretty stable, at first I lost some then weighed 46.5 kg, then gained to 47.5 kg, now back to 47 kg. All of this could be due to water losses/gains and weight of food intake/ constipation of course.

In the past 30 days, the lowest intake on a day was 1173 calories (not on purpose), the highest was 2796 (whoa). These are rare extremes, fortunately. I either eat what I want and just make notes on what and how much I eat at each meal, or I plan my meals and make sure to stay around a certain number of calories. It depends. I certainly feel like I eat a lot. I never get dizzy (only the first three days on this new diet mod), I have plenty of energy, I am able to concentrate well and I am mentally/ emotionally quite stable.

Now, of course I don't think a meal of 166 calories is too big. What I mean by 'too big' is a meal of about 600-700 calories in one long sitting (or more). Maybe 300 calories is ok, I don't know exactly (of course it totally depends on body and activity level). I would like to know (in regards to blood sugar/ water retention etc.).
Big meals and overall higher calorie intake make me exhausted for obvious reasons. I don't do as well on higher-calorie days.

I aim for 1500 calories mainly because I want to lose fat and I am not quite sure what exactly my daily calorie needs are. According to this calculator on some website, my BMR is 1256 and my calorie needs on a typical day would be around 1750.
It is easy to overeat just a little. I thought 1500 would be fine for me (for fat loss) and mostly when I aim for that, I still eat a little more anyways. For example, I'll eat 125 calories an hour during the day, then eat a couple of bigger meals in the evening and sometimes I end up having had 1800 instead of 1500. I had to get used to eating such small meals even, going from 5 meals a day to 9. If I eat as much as I want, I simply gain weight (fat). I am really trying to recondition myself to eat exactly enough and frequently enough, that's why I monitor everything and I want to train my body to feel when it has had enough or when it needs more. I have trouble with this. I always know when I need more, but sometimes I don't know when I need less. I just want to help my body a little bit by monitoring my intake.
Isn't is true that someone who relatively weighs a lot needs a lot more calories than the same person with no excess weight? Isn't it also true that set-point weight can change, for example if someone always eats too much and ends up being much heavier than would be preferable for them, their stomach has stretched out and their body is used to a certain amount of food in weight, plus it needs more calories to maintain itself. All their organs are bigger, etc. I just don't know what my set-point weight is. How can one know this? I can't figure it out just by eating and trying to listen to my body.

Confusion:
1) I didn't eat more calories when I ate sugars (probably less if anything). I certainly didn't eat more protein. However, I did not have ketobreath.
2) If it was true that I have been burning muscle for fuel in spite of my efforts to keep my motor running smoothly, how come my weight is still the same and if anything, I have to be careful not to gain any?
3) If I am not eating enough, this means I will have to eat more and gain weight, but this weight gain will mainly be fat and no muscle. I have plenty of muscle tone and also plenty of 'feminine curves' (hips, butt, thighs), so I don't see how gaining weight would be better. This just seems normal for my frame. I could come to Amsterdam and let you and Wai take a look haha just kidding! You'd see that I look very healthy.
Sure, these days the average weight is climbing up here in Europe as well, so most people do call me thin... but I think that's because most people could lose a few and thin people are the minority.
3) If I didn't have ketobreath before starting this diet mod, would it not be a better idea to eat a little more sugars instead of eating more salmon, since I don't know if this will affect my cellulite?
4) 4 yolks and 70 g of salmon is not the same amount of protein.
5) I got my period (and totally on time: after 29 days)... meaning I must be doing something right? Or not?
6) Is my diet mod more acid ash than the regular Wai diet?

Thank you RRM, I really appreciate your help!!




:D
DarkGalaxy
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Post by DarkGalaxy »

I forgot to mention that on average, the past 30 days I have walked 62 minutes a day and I've done 30 minutes a day of other exercise (which could be shopping, light biking, rebounding, Pilates, yoga, etc.)
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Post by RRM »

DarkGalaxy wrote:Over the past 30 days, my intake has been an average of 1785 calories a day
Ah, ok.
I never get dizzy (only the first three days on this new diet mod), I have plenty of energy, I am able to concentrate well and I am mentally/ emotionally quite stable.
Thats good.
Isn't is true that someone who relatively weighs a lot needs a lot more calories than the same person with no excess weight?
Yes, because then you are carrying around extra weight. (think of having to carry a backpack with a 10 kg stone in it all day)
Isn't it also true that set-point weight can change, for example if someone always eats too much and ends up being much heavier than would be preferable for them, their stomach has stretched out and their body is used to a certain amount of food in weight, plus it needs more calories to maintain itself.
That is not a change in the setpoint weight; its just getting used to these circumstances; its just a condition that makes it harder to automatically end up at your setpoint weight.
Stomach hunger is not neccessarily related to energy requirements and energy requirements have nothing to do with the setpoint weight.
I just don't know what my set-point weight is. How can one know this? I can't figure it out just by eating and trying to listen to my body.
Eating this way, eventually, you will, but by then, thats your actual weight already.
I didn't eat more calories when I ate sugars (probably less if anything). I certainly didn't eat more protein. However, I did not have ketobreath.
Maybe the 'ketobreath-phenomenon' is actually purely ketosis related? (and not nitrogen related?)
If it was true that I have been burning muscle for fuel in spite of my efforts to keep my motor running smoothly, how come my weight is still the same and if anything, I have to be careful not to gain any?
Indeed, so maybe thats not the case after all.
3) If I didn't have ketobreath before starting this diet mod, would it not be a better idea to eat a little more sugars instead of eating more salmon, since I don't know if this will affect my cellulite?
Well, you have pointed out that you actually may be not consuming too little energy, so that we first need to find out to what exactly ketobreath is related.
Whether the 70 gram of salmon is safe for you, you can find out by monitoring whether it makes you retain more water (especially the nose area)
4) 4 yolks and 70 g of salmon is not the same amount of protein.
you are right; 70 g salmon contains as much protein as 5.2 yolks.
5) I got my period (and totally on time: after 29 days)... meaning I must be doing something right? Or not?
Cant be sure, but its a good sign.
6) Is my diet mod more acid ash than the regular Wai diet?
what?
DarkGalaxy
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Post by DarkGalaxy »

Quote:
I just don't know what my set-point weight is. How can one know this? I can't figure it out just by eating and trying to listen to my body.


Eating this way, eventually, you will, but by then, thats your actual weight already.
What I mean is, that even eating this way I can gain weight (by eating more than I need) or lose weight (by eating less than I need), so I am trying to eat the amount of calories as closely to my calorie needs since it is very hard otherwise for me to 'sense' or 'feel' how much I should be eating. BUT... in order to lose weight (fat), is it not necessary to eat a little less than what you require, over a length of time (while of course walking daily and eating Wai foods)? I mean, if I was to eat exactly what my body needed in terms of energy requirements, I wouldn't lose any fat would I?

It just seems like a matter of choice to me, like it is in my own hands what my weight will be. Setpoint weight would definitely be a weight that would make me fertile and thriving, right? I do know about the theory/science of setpoint weight, but isn't there such a thing as a RANGE instead of one number on the scale that would be ideal?

What I want to do is try to lose fat while maintaining muscle mass as much as possible, and just see what would be healthy in terms of fertility. If I don't get my period after 32 days, that'll be a sign to me. I also want to go to the doctor some time for an overall checkup: hormone levels, minerals, bone density, cholesterol, the works.

Another major sign that prevents me from running on empty is that IMMEDIATELY when I do, I get depressed, so the moment I am feeling depressed or thinking destructive thoughts, I know I gotta eat right away and indeed, that always fixes it. Sometimes I think I should even eat a little in the middle of the night or have food next to my bed so I can eat right after waking up.
Maybe the 'ketobreath-phenomenon' is actually purely ketosis related? (and not nitrogen related?)
This could be. It is supposedly due to these ketones which apparently come from both fat and protein, which you eliminate through urine, sweat and breath and indeed, my sweat and breath have been different while in ketosis. I read somewhere that after 3 weeks in ketosis, one would stop excreting ketones but that hasn't happened yet for me and I wonder if it will. the idea is that after 3 weeks, the body will go straight to burning fat for fuel... which doesn't make sense because that is the process which leads to the byproduct ketones, so I guess ketosis remains a mysterious and controversial phenomenon. However, no doubt, I'm in ketosis.
Whether the 70 gram of salmon is safe for you, you can find out by monitoring whether it makes you retain more water (especially the nose area)
I will try this as soon as my period and related water retention are over, to be as sure as I can.
Quote:
6) Is my diet mod more acid ash than the regular Wai diet?


what?
I mean, some people claim that the state of ketosis is unhealthy because it makes the body more acidic, firstly because of eating mainly foods of which the ash is acidic, or which need alkaline minerals to be digested and assimilated, or which make the body more acidic after having been digested. Now, of course most people in ketosis eat high cooked protein and bad fats, but still, even the raw fats and proteins are more acidic than alkaline. However, modern (sweet) fruits (as eaten on the regular Wai diet) are also not necessarily alkaline due to hybridization, transport, storage, etc. Secondly, people claim that ketones in themselves are acidic and make the body more acidic, hence causing osteoporosis, cell damage, etc. These are just some claims I read. Some others claim that ketosis makes the heart perform much better.

What do you think is a meal that is too big? Is it a meal that takes away energy instead of giving energy? Is it unhealthy to binge now and then and just eat 700 calories of Wai foods at one time for example?

Thank you!!!!!!!!!




:D
DarkGalaxy
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Post by DarkGalaxy »

"Ketone bodies are the metabolic substances known as acetoacetic acid and beta-hydroxybutyric acid. Acetone, which puts off the peculiar odor associated with ketosis, comes from acetoacetic acid. Ketones can be irritating to the kidneys and the kidneys expel ketones through the urine."

From: http://www.weightawareness.com/topics/d ... ic_id=1115
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Post by RRM »

DarkGalaxy wrote:"Ketone bodies are the metabolic substances known as acetoacetic acid and beta-hydroxybutyric acid. Acetone, which puts off the peculiar odor associated with ketosis, comes from acetoacetic acid. Ketones can be irritating to the kidneys and the kidneys expel ketones through the urine."
Ah, yes. And acetoacetic acid and beta-hydroxybutyric acid are byproducts of converting fatty acids into glucose.
So, yes, extra protein can help, but only because of its glucogenic amino acids. Taking a little glucose is far more effective, and cannot cause water retention.
So, my advice to you: consume as much glucose that your body allows you to, and hopefully is enough to eliminate the ketobreath...
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Post by RRM »

DarkGalaxy wrote:I am trying to eat the amount of calories as closely to my calorie needs since it is very hard otherwise for me to 'sense' or 'feel' how much I should be eating.
Yes, thats a BIG disadvantage of not relying on glucose; the glucose system is very 'telling' regarding letting you know how much and when you need glucose.
Unfortunately, nobody can tell you how much energy you really need... (it differs per day)
if I was to eat exactly what my body needed in terms of energy requirements, I wouldn't lose any fat would I?
True.
Setpoint weight would definitely be a weight that would make me fertile and thriving, right?
Not necessarily, as that also depends on meal frequency and nutrient composition, for example.
but isn't there such a thing as a RANGE instead of one number on the scale that would be ideal?
absolutely.
What I want to do is try to lose fat while maintaining muscle mass as much as possible, and just see what would be healthy in terms of fertility. If I don't get my period after 32 days, that'll be a sign to me. I also want to go to the doctor some time for an overall checkup: hormone levels, minerals, bone density, cholesterol, the works.
Seems a good plan to me.
Another major sign that prevents me from running on empty is that IMMEDIATELY when I do, I get depressed
Excellent.

the idea is that after 3 weeks, the body will go straight to burning fat for fuel... which doesn't make sense because that is the process which leads to the byproduct ketones
Exactly.

Secondly, people claim that ketones in themselves are acidic and make the body more acidic
Well, the increased levels of acetoacetic acid and beta-hydroxybutyric acid DO bother me, actually... The ketobreath is a bad sign i suspect. So, i would suggest to try to eliminate it. Maybe its about finding exactly the right balance.
What do you think is a meal that is too big?
Consuming more readily available energy than required to replenish energy lost from the blood and glycogen depots.
Is it unhealthy to binge now and then and just eat 700 calories of Wai foods at one time for example?
In theory, yes, but it may very well be negligible.
DarkGalaxy
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Post by DarkGalaxy »

So today is the first day of me eating sweet fruits again, after 31 days on high fat, most of which I've been in ketosis.

I wanted to start slow and add some apple slices here and there, only consuming medium glycemic fruits like apples, peaches, prunes and in small amounts. After every meal I've made an effort to urinate haha (to test for ketones) and... well no change so far... still in deep ketosis. I guess this would take a bit for my body to register??

It's weird eating sweet fruits again :) It's delicious and sooooooo sweet after a month without!! It feels... nice but it makes me less hungry!!! Now how am I gonna make sure to eat enough? One peach and I'm full...
A piece of apple tastes pretty much like eating a spoon of sugar >slurp< and soooo juicy!!

I've had a slight headache all day, which is rare and I've had plenty of water. Probably just a menstruation headache.

I'm still confused about the whole intake vs. output issue regarding fat loss. I'll read the glycogen method chapter again...

The whole point is never to GAIN any weight... so true. If I never gained any, I wouldn't have to lose it and lose some muscle tissue in the process.
I'm just gonna focus on not gaining for a while... trying to fully comprehend that concept on all levels.
DarkGalaxy
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Post by DarkGalaxy »

Wow, I just read this:

"Using Your Ketostix

On the third day of the program, begin to test your urine for Ketosis using the reagent strips or 'Ketostix'. Testing should be done at the first urination in the morning. Simply wet the reactive tip with urine and wait 15-20 seconds before checking the colour against the scale. Pink indicates you are burning fat at the most appropriate rate whilst purple signals the need to consume more carbohydrates."

LOL, I've been in deep purple for a month... should have eaten more sweet fruits.
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Post by Seth »

RRM, what do you thing of that "standard" one hears all over the place of subtracting 500 calories (or 20%) of what your body needs per day to maintain its weight as a basis for losing body fat without losing muscle?
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