Fibromyalgia

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Angie
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Fibromyalgia

Post by Angie »

Hello,

I was 'diagnosed' with FMS a couple of weeks ago. I have reason to believe I'd had the physical tendency for it since I was six years old, or earlier. I remember nightmares that left me with a painful tingly spine for days. It was never much of a problem though, as I have always been extremely physically active.

I was in a very minor accident that may have caused it to go up a level. It could also be that since moving to BC, I've been way less active than usual. Either way, the Dr. perscribed Amitriptyline (Elavil) 10mg/day. It is to help me sleep, and to help with the pain. Apparently FMS people produce less theta waves??? The Dr. didn't actually -know- if this would help produce more theta waves or not. All it does is block the substance P found in the spinal fluid. Anyhow, it works wonderfully for the pain. I also enjoy the antidepressant effect so much, it's like having a warm-fuzzy-safe feeling all the time, with spikes of pure joy.

The problem is that that the other effects of the drug interfere with my lifestyle, and desire to be creative and physically active. Apparently the only way to heal FMS is to build up much more strength in the muscles. Yet I can barely manage my daily 1 hr walk to the spring and back. I can ski at least. Still, I'm exhausted all the time. I can't type fast anymore, and I'm often dizzy. I gained 6 lbs of water in 12 days. It's making the acne far worse as well. I can't dream clearly. It's making my athsma worse. I sleep late, and am unproductive during the day. Also, it's wrecking my singing voice. One symptom is dry mouth and swelling of the vocal folds. This is by far the worst thing about it. The doctor said it's not addictive, but I read that it is. I feel that it is.

Is it possible that the Wai diet is making me more than usually sensitive to the effects of this? It's only 10mg/day which is the smallest dose. Standard for depression is 50mg-200mg/day.

Does anyone on here have a similar situation, or anything else to recommend for FMS? Perhaps something in line with the Wai philosophy, and if not, than anything that is truly effective. I used to call it 'nerve pain' and I've had it for at least 10 years prior to this. No one knew what it was, so I just remembered what worked for me, and did that, but it was never a complete solution.

I was so happy to finally have a name for it and therefore a possible solution, but this is nuts!!! I don't have time to deal with it, to many wonderful things happening in life...

so if anyone on here has any answers....? Ideas....?
MJ
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Post by MJ »

Angie,

As a Muscle Balance and Function (MBF) practitioner, here's my opinion on FMS. Doctors don't know what causes the pain, so they just call it FMS and give you some drugs to manage your discomfort.

I do not know if there is a nutritional connection to this condition (I can guess there may be), however, I definitely feel there are psychological and physical components to it. As far as the mental aspect, I have seen that people with FMS tend to have a heightened sense of anxiety. I spoke to a friend who is a psychologist and he said he has several clients who were diagnosed with FMS and he agreed with me in that they all had that heightened sense of anxiety. I'm not saying that the pain is all in your head as I did mention before that I also believe there is a physical aspect to it. However, remember that pain is a sensation that is subjective. For example, 2 people can get the exact same type of injury and one person will say they feel slight discomfort while other perosn may say that it is killing them. Since the perception of pain is subjective, the mental aspect is a major factor.

On the physical side, I have done postural analyses on people with FMS and I found that the alignment of their body is pretty dysfunctional. This basically means that they have some pretty big muscular imbalances in their body. The traditional idea of strengthing the muscles to heal FMS does not work because you would only increasing the imbalance that exists. These people don't need to strengthen their muscles, they needs re-balance them first and then strengthen afterwards. Because of this imbalance it is natural that movement will be very difficult and tiring because your body cannot move efficiently. Some muscles aren't working properly and other muscles are compensating to help out. A muscle doing the job that it is not supposed to do with always be weaker than a muscle doing what it is supposed to do.

I'm not a fan of MD's in situations like this. In my opinion, the drugs numb your body so you don't feel pain, but on the other hand those drugs will eventually destroy your body.
Angie
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Post by Angie »

Hello MJ,

Thanks for your response. There are a few things that make sense, for example, as someone with a visual impairment, I do occasionally suffer from mild anxiety. Right now, there are transitional aspects in my life that may make this worse. However, that doesn't explain symptoms as far back as six years of age. I was a very happy, intelligent, creative and fortunate child and I came from a very loving environment. I was one of three, so not lonely or anything. The other thing is that I'm physically active, not overweight, and not too thin. I do bikram's yoga which helps with physical alignment, dancing, skiing, swimming, and TM meditation to help with stress. Health has always been important... there wouldn't be any nutritional deficiencies...

I'm more of a high achiever, and although the last two years have been rather difficult, just out of grad school, haven't got the first professorship position yet, certainly nothing that should cause -this-, to wake up in pain everyday. Well maybe. Also a minor car accident in the fall may have triggered it... I have also moved many times in the last four years for different reasons... isolating factors are proving difficult... but what I'm really looking for are strategies that don't involve the 'know your limits' philosophy as that sounds like a recipie for self-pity :) :)

Well thanks for your interesting opinions...
MJ
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Post by MJ »

Yoga doesn't do what you think it does. I'd did yoga for a while and I have also analyzed the postures of yoga instructors and yoga practitioners who have done yoga all their lives. Despite the claims of yoga, it does no restore muscular imbalances and correct alignment. If it did, yoga instructors would have perfect alignment, but they don't. What yoga claims in theory is not what happens in reality.

In addition, just because you were involved in activities such as dancing, skiing, and swimming doesn't mean that you don't have imbalances. I deal with athletes all the time and I am one myself and they all have big imbalances.

As far as nutrition, one thing that I have learned from the Wai Diet and other sources is that what the average person thinks of as a "healthy diet" is not really as healthy as they think. If you read the book "The Omnivore's Dilemma", you will realize that there is so much in your food that you don't realize.

Also, if you got into a car accident, that will absolutely create a muscular imbalance in your body. All traumas and injuries actually create imbalances.
Angie
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Post by Angie »

Bikram's Yoga claims to be different, it claims to actually restore alignment. It's very intense and done in a heated room. Apparently Bikram researched the medical benefits of each pose in the series. Not having your training to analyze while I'm in class, I can't say whether this is actually true or not.... all I have is my own subjective experience ....what I can say is that when I was doing it 2 or 3x/week, three years ago, every health complaint I had went away, including the FMS symptoms as well as asthma, allergies and a shoulder injury.

No other form of excercise had this result, no matter how often I did it. The problem is it's expensive, and not offered everywhere.

How would I discover if I have a muscle imbalance, and go about correcting it?

I've tried various ways of eating over the years. The commonalities are lack of processed foods, wheat, and dairy. Also I try not to eat late at night, etc.

What is your experience regarding the book you mentioned? Are you a strict follower of the Wai diet? Is it inline with the free online Wai book?
MJ
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Post by MJ »

Bikram Yoga is not different. I know what it is. You may have decreased your symptoms, but it doesn't mean that you decreased your muscular imbalances. Without a proper analysis, you really don't know whether it decreased your imbalances. Plus, I am absolutely sure that you have certain postural issues that you are not even aware of.

Plus, Bikram Yoga consists of a set routine that everyone does. Each person's postural issues are different so there is no way a standardized routine can resolve everyone's issues. That would be like saying any time anyone has a cough, just take antibiotics.

I'm not saying that Bikram wasn't beneficial for you. You felt results and that's all that matters. I'm just saying that from standpoint of posture, alignment, am muscular imbalances, it doesn't do what it claims to do.

The most accurate way, in my opinion, to understand the imbalances you have is to find someone who knows how to do a proper postural analysis.

The book I mentioned it not a book about any particular diet. It is a book about the history of food and takes you through almost every aspect that a particular food goes through before you buy it. It is a very eye opening book. You can get it on Amazon.com.

I am a strict follower of the Wai Diet, however, I eat a greater variety of raw animal food than Wai recommends. I have also read several other books from other raw food diets. Prior to the Wai Diet, I ate very healthy by the average person's standards. However, I have experienced incredible changes in my body with the Wai Diet that I was never able to achieve from eating standard cooked meals.
Angie
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Post by Angie »

I took a look at the book you mentioned, read the first chapter online (free) and some reviews. It looks interesting, something I could get into when I have a little more time/resources. What I noticed is that some readers mentioned lack of a really good conclusion. Ie, what do they truly recommend?

We get all our fruits and vegetables from a market that sells mostly from local farmers. We're in a valley, which is known for it's locally grown fruits.

The phyio I'm seeing for the car accident (minor whiplash, mentioned postural issues in my mid back, that are now in the process of being corrected. I was standing -too- upright due to training for singing, ballroom dancing, etc. He expressed that fixing this might help with chronic pain cycles.

I've found the wai diet to be fantastic, but it's the scheduling of eating that's a real problem, as well as managing blood sugar fluctuations. My asthma and acne are actually worse on this diet, though I feel more mentally clear. I also get stomach aches which is new. It's a lot of work and I'd almost rather eat low GI, mostly raw, plus healthy fats and let my body digest food slowly, and eat less often.

Once I have a system down, then I can focus on other things. It's just that finding out the best system really is taking awhile.
MJ
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Post by MJ »

The book is not really about drawing any sort of conclusions or giving recommendations. It is more about enlightening you about what happens to your food and the impact your choices have on the world around you.

As ar a physio's, they also don't really know how to correct muscular imbalances. I know this from dealing with people who went to physio therapists and also from speaking to a physiotherapist who threw out all her standard training and had to seek another method in order to help her better understand how to deal with those kinds of isues.

In addition, the fact that your physio mentioned postural issues in your mid-back, tells me that he doesn't understand how to deal with muscular imbalances. It is impossible for the body to have an imbalance in one area and no other area. The body doesn't work like that. The body works as a unit. So if there is an imbalance in one area, there will be imbalances in other areas. Nothing in the body happens in isolation.

Remember that the Wai Diet is not just about what foods to eat and not eat. I think that is the problem that many people have. They think that as long as they eat fruits, nuts, and eggs, they are doing the Wai Diet. The Wai Diet is not only about what you eat, but also how much you eat, the food combinations, and frequency. Of course adjustments for food allergies and intolerances must be made, but what I have found from knowing several people who are doing the Wai Diet is that many of them start creating their own version right from the start and then wonder why they are experiencing odd symptoms.
Angie
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Post by Angie »

Hello MJ,

I am aware of the other aspects of the Wai Diet, the frequency of eating and all that. When I do that, and the combinations correctly, then yes, everything is perfect. It's just that I don't want to spend all my time making and eating food. My skin doesn't like me to eat eggs in the morning, but my brain/mood does... how do I balance that? How can I get into a deep creative state of many hours painting, or a day-job, if I have to eat every 30 min? Fresh locally grown food that contains all nutrients is harder to find in the winter. I am still working that part out. I've read material on this board extensively... enough to know how sensitive it all is, and how it all works together.

What version of the Wai Diet do you do? What frequency and combinations have you found work the best?

One can imagine the process that food goes through, industrial, industrial/organic or whichever, just by thinking about it carefully. It does look like a good book for expanding on that process. The author has spent a lot of time researching...

I don't know if the physio knows about muscular imbalances, since I haven't been lately. At least he identified a something other people I've seen never even mentioned. He said my upper back wasn't 'spreading' enough, that my shoulder blades were protruding, due to bad posture. Basically the opposite of hunching over. lol. I don't know if he meant that's the -only- problem, or if that's the root of it. I think stretching it out a little won't hurt either way.

Any orthopedic person would say the problem starts in my feet, goes up to my knees, hips, back and head, and that orthotics are the answer. That makes more sense... Another person would say, no, you don't need that, train the foot-muscles yourself..... Is this the type of imbalance you are referring to?

Do you think the book; "Pain Free" by Pete Egoscue (sp?) is a good one?

Can you give an example of a muscular imbalance that might cause FMS-like pain?
MJ
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Post by MJ »

I am very familar with Pete Egoscue's work. He has the correct general idea , but he doesn't have science behind his system (I know this because I took his therapist training course and it was so horrid that I walked out and asked for my money back). To the untrained eye, what Egoscue does may seem similar to what I do, but the MBF system actually has science behind it.

As far as saying where the problems started and then where it spread to, it is impossible for anyone to say with absolute certainty. It's like debating on whether the chicken or the egg came first.

When your body is properly aligned and muscularly balanced, when you exert or absorb force, the force is evenly distributed throughout your body. However, when you have an imbalance, force is no longer evenly distributed and certain areas being to over absorb more force. For example, some people will get low back pain when they stand for more than a few minutes. Because of the the person's imbalances, the force of gravity is not evenly distributed throughout the person's spine and load joints and most of the force is being absorbed by the low back. With some people force is being over absorbed in multiple areas and so they feel discomfort in several areas of their body. This is a overly simplistic way of explaining things, but I hope you understand the idea.

As far as the Wai Diet, I eat about 7 - 9 times a day. Remember that when they say to eat every 30 min., it doesn't mean you have to eat a meal. A little sip of OJ with olive oil counts as eating.

Personally, I don't sip juice with oil every 30 min. Sometimes that simply isn't practical because I am busy doing something. A moderator can correct me if I am wrong, but the main thing with the Wai Diet is that you should never allow yourself to go so long without eat that is causes you to feel starving hungry or like you are going to pass out from low blood sugar. If you allow yourself to do that, then you will have a greater chance of overeating, spiking your blood sugar really high, and wanting to eat "junk" (and that includes cooked food).

For me, I eat about every 2 hours. If I go longer than 2 hours, I will feel starving hungry. So if you consider that I first start eating at 9am, by 11pm, I've eaten at least 7 times. Throw in 2 additional little sips or nibbles of something during the day and there's my 9 meals. But there's no absolute set schedule because after a while, my body just tells me when it needs something and it's like an automatic timer goes off in my body and I feel the need to eat.

What each person eats is a little bit different. For example, I figured out I have an intolerance to nuts and tomatoes. On the other hand, I have no fear of bacterial issues when it comes to eating raw beef, shrimp, octopus, various fish, and oysters. I also find that I need the fulfilling feeling of eating animal meat. Once I started to eat more animal meat, my craving for munchie food was squashed.
jay
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Post by jay »

I don't know if this would help any, but it has helped me alleviate some minor back pain I would have after long walks:

http://anthropik.com/2007/06/learning-to-walk/

Once you try this, even for a little bit, and then go back to the 'normal' heel-strike walking, you'll notice a huge difference. It's kind of wierd actually. I have a pair of wide, thin-soled shoes that I can do this in so I don't look like weirdo walking around in winter barefooted.
Angie
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Post by Angie »

Someone recommended Pete's book a few years ago. I bought it, skimmed it, was in grad school and had no time to read it. Perhaps I'll look for someone to do the MBF here. Thanks for all the information. It's fantastic. Yes I get the idea from the simplified explanation.

I think that a lot of it is (physical)cultural.. there's so much wrong with our culture... Now I'll add incorrect walking to the list - I bet that causes / aggravates muscle imbalance.

There are both physical and emotional triggers for the FMS. It's especially bad when I wear the wrong shoes, or overdo it physically, in a work out, or get stressed up. Anything that gets me on the defensive mentally or emotionally will trigger it. It's like a negative comment sends painful tingles through me. On the other hand, if I'm happy about something, the opposite happens. It's like I won't acknowledge emotions to myself, as they get in the way of what I need to do to survive, so they come out as physical pain/symptoms. So there's the suppressive aspect as well. Everyone has that though, right....??? lol.

I wonder why 90% of FMS sufferers are women? I used to think it was due to the above paragraph... now I'm wondering if it's the shoes!

I haven't heard of this Fox-walking. I know we went barefoot -a lot- as kids. I tried it, it felt right, instantly. We're having a snowstorm though. I agree with it, however I think we weren't meant to walk on concrete. The human foot is shaped for sand, soft grass or the forrest floor. We are now evolving to have flat feet. Actually that is really sad.

Regarding the Wai Diet, what you mentioned is pretty much what I do. I don't drink juice+oil as much, except for in the evenings 1 hr after eating fish, or if I'm out. I still eat lettuce and carrots, and drink herb tea occasionally. I make sure to eat correct combinations, I don't wait too long between meals, even if I just eat a fig and swig some oil. All the nuts, figs etc are in the shell, not-frozen, etc etc. At times I eat 2 eggs -and- 50g salmon in a day. I know this is against the rules, but I find I need the extra vitamins in those eggs. Eggs and avocados are my favorite part of the Wai Diet.
MJ
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Post by MJ »

As far as walking on concrete, it is not the surface that is the problem, it is the body that walks on it. You would be amazed at what a highly functional body is capable of doing and the best example of that is with young children. I used to have knee and back pains when I ran, however, once I improved the muscular balance and alignment of my body, I have no problems running on concrete barefoot. The impact does not bother my joints at all.

Today's modern shoes are terribly designed. Most shoes are designed for fashion rather than function. Women's shoes are the most guilty of this. If you look at most shoes, the heel is raised and the shoe is not very pliable. As soon as you raise the heel, your body must change its alignment to compensate. The more you wear heeled shoes, the more the misalignment is ingrained.

If you want to walk outside as close to barefoot as possible and protect your skin, check out www.vibramfivefingers.com. In addition, check out the line of shoes at vivobarefoot.com.

By the way, the mental things you mentioned are example of the anxiety I was talking about. Here's another example...I knew that lady was diagnosed with FMS. I asked her husband if she had any sort of anxiety issues. He said that when she has any sort of discomfort, she blows things out of proportion. For example, if she had a headache, she would wonder if she possibly had a brain tumor. Basically, she amplified any physical discomfort she had due to the way she perceived the situation.

Let me mention one more thing in regards to the Wai Diet. Ultimately, your body tells you whether something is right or wrong. Your body is always giving you signals and whether you listen to those signals is a different story. I mention this because I hear so many people say that they need to eat certain things. There is a big difference between need and want.

When I first started the Wai Diet, I saw great results in my skin, however, I still had loose stool, would feel light headed once in a while, and I also started to get body odor on certain parts of my body that I never had before. I knew something wasn't right. So, I cut out all the munchie food and I stripped my diet down even more plain and dull than the sample diet. For a while, I was only drinking fruit juice with oil, raw egg yoke, and a salad that was only made of cucumbers, avocado, and olive oil. I did this for a while until I noticed that all my problems started to go away. But, it really sucked for a while. By stripping my diet down to the bare minimum, I slowly added single items to see it's effect on my body. Eventually, I figured out that I had an intolerance to tomato and nuts and that was causing my body to react oddly. I also figured out I had intolerances to any sort of vinegar, garlic, and onion.

Personally, I don't think most people would have done what I did because it really sucked to eat for nutrition and survival rather than taste. However, I was eventually able to figure out what caused problems for me. The funny thing is that I have found that when many people encounter problems with the Wai Diet, they feel that they need more of certain things. I did the opposite.
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RRM
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Post by RRM »

MJ wrote:The funny thing is that I have found that when many people encounter problems with the Wai Diet, they feel that they need more of certain things. I did the opposite.
I couldnt agree more.
With every issue or problem that we may have we tend to think that we lack something rather than the opposite.
Given that our body is principally a magnificient design that can perfectly cope with temporary food shortages, we should rather try to identify disturbing factors first.
Its actually how this diet originated.
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Oscar
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Post by Oscar »

As to posture, you could have a look at the Alexander Technique. Is also deals with walking (and running (The Art of Running - Malcolm Balk), which is based on/combined with the Pose Technique - Dr Romanov), but is primarily focused on unlearning bad posture habits and helping the body find its natural habits.
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