Low cortisol

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overkees
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Low cortisol

Post by overkees »

I learned that licorice root has glycyrrhetinic acid in it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycyrrhetinic_acid and this prevents the cortisol from breaking down so rapidly in your body. Alot of people that used this treatment (500 mg a day) say that they are not able to sleep longer than 7-9 hours and wake up feeling alot better and rested. Ive ordered it and I' ll report as soon as I received it.

If I do indeed sleep less and if the buteyko hypothesis is right then I will be 40 MCP in no time, also because of the higher cortisol levels according to you. So, if i stay above 40 MCP for 2 weeks my body finally starts organizing. So then I don't need the licorice anymore and I will finally stay there naturally.
Kasper
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Re: Kasper's thoughts

Post by Kasper »

Intersting stuff !
Using some short-cuts to reach 40 MCP, I think is a very smart idea.

I really believe in that 40 MCP hypothesis.
40 CP feels so different in every single way. Like you feel that your body is finally able to heal itself (people who have experience 40 CP now where I'm talking about).
If you can maintain it during the night... for two weeks... that should do the trick.

For me, I'm first focusing on curing my feet. I think my root health problem, is really concentrated in my roots :P
I think if I do that, 40 or 60 MCP will be much less a problem.
Now if I get at 40-60 CP, my feet get inflamed if I'm not paying really good attention.
Cold exposure, apple cider vinegar, earting, lamisil are all helping to get this inflammation under control.
But in the netherlands we would say: You're mopping with the tap open. ;)
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RRM
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Re: Kasper's thoughts

Post by RRM »

overkees wrote: I learned that licorice root has glycyrrhetinic acid in it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycyrrhetinic_acid and this prevents the cortisol from breaking down so rapidly in your body. Alot of people that used this treatment (500 mg a day) say that they are not able to sleep longer than 7-9 hours and wake up feeling alot better and rested. Ive ordered it and I' ll report as soon as I received it.
Please dont do that!
You dont want to mess with cortisol levels.
Its a stress hormone that suppresses the immune system.
You will wake up sooner because when you slow down the breakdown of cortisol,
more sugar will be released (from muscle protein and other) into the bloodstream,
increasing blood sugar level (also by counteracting insulin), which will eventually wake you up.
Cortisol also induces the loss of collagen (acceleratinmg aging of the skin) and damages cells in the hippocampus.
It has also been shown that cortisol inhibits memory retrieval of already stored information.
Kasper
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Re: Cortisol

Post by Kasper »

@Overkees
normalbreathing.com wrote:If you are deficient in cortisol your parameters after the session will be almost unchanged. It is possible if you suffer from any inflammatory condition (asthma, bronchitis, various digestive problems, cystic fibrosis, cancer, etc.), adrenal exhaustion, severe and chronic stress and your current CP is less than 20 s. Cortisol, in cases of deficiency, according to Dr. Buteyko and his colleagues, is vital for breathing normalization. No progress is possible unless you provide what the body needs to fight inflammation, infection, and stress. There is a separate module devoted to cortisol deficiency.
So according to artour, if you are above 20CP, you won't need external cortisol.
But I doubt this, as my own experiences, and your experiences seem to tell something different.

@RRM
You once said that you considered coffee relatively harmless.
Why do you think this is relatively harmless than? Coffee also raises cortisol levels.

If we talk about immune system. Low cortisol levels also suppress immune functioning.
And if I remember correctly overkees is tested to have low cortisol levels, right ?

I think it would be more wise to actually test if glycyrrhetinic acid actually will get your cortisol level in the 'normal' range. Or that it will get too high, remains low, etc
But trying it out for two weeks or something like that.. I think this will be relatively harmless anyway. If your cortisol level will get in the really high range, you will feel it (right?)
Since its initial discovery by Hans Selye in 1907, cortisol has been the subject of many studies, yielding several different conclusions. Initially, it was found that elevated levels of cortisol were associated with elevated levels of stress, and it was thought that cortisol was released as a cause of stress, as described earlier. However, later studies showed a negative relationship between stress and cotisol levels; they found lower cortisol levels in people living under highly stressful circumstances. How could this be?
When the results of these experiments were further analyzed, scientists found startling relationship. With experiments where participants were subjected to conditions of acute stress (shorter duration), like speaking in public, or being suddenly startled, cortisol was found to be in elevated levels. However, when participants were under conditions of chronic stress (longer duration), like divorce or unemployment, scientists found lower levels of cortisol. This caused them to believe that maybe the relationship between stress and cortisol levels wasn’t so simple. More evidence continued to support the claim that acute stress caused sudden elevation in cortisol levels; if this stress continued, cortisol levels would decline, leading normal levels.
overkees
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Re: Low cortisol

Post by overkees »

Yes I have been tested on low morning cortisol.

This is the reason I sleep for 12-14 hours day after day if I have no alarm clock. Even why I go to bed the right time and eat the wai diet. The only thing so far that could lessen my sleep, was doing alot of cardio excercise. Cardio excercise also tends to normalize the cortisol in the long run.

Also when my cp gets over 40 I can sleep with 6 hours and wake up naturally. I think it has to do with glycogens store usage. I think my body is still in the state where it thinks that it must get all the rest and energy it needs because there's a head time ahead. But it's really frustrating only leading to more chronic stress subconsciously and consciously. That is why I stay in this vicuous cycle. That is why I need to exercise alot, keep a good track of my energy levels and sleep less. If i manage to switch the button it will stay on alot easier for a long time. That is why I'm thinking to take it a few days and see what happens. I can read my body pretty good now with the wai diet and breathing techniques. If all goes well, you should fall in sleep within 10 minutes, feeling only a little tired. Then waking up, feeling revived and ready to start the day. Then experimenting with doing it without if until it goes wrong again.

It's either this or cortisosteroids, but that is not one of the options for me. Also exercising more is also a no go. I think 1 hour of cardio (nose breathing) a day is enough plus some additional walking and stairclimbing.
Kasper
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Re: Low cortisol

Post by Kasper »

Do you really do 1 hour of cardio a day ?
Respect ! I'm starting a little bit over again, but going to gradually increase it to 1 hour.

I read that cholesterol and fats (saturated if I remember correctly) are really important to restore the adrenals.
Besides that, inflammation and histamine depletes cortisol. And so does stress of course.
Aerobic exercise is able to reduce silent inflammation.
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Re: Cortisol

Post by RRM »

Kasper wrote: trying it out for two weeks or something like that.. I think this will be relatively harmless anyway.
You think? or you know?
Your body is way too important to subject it to random experiments like that.
And if you are going to experiment with drugs, do so under the supervision and with the guidance of a specialised MD,
and not on your own...
Kasper
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Re: Low cortisol

Post by Kasper »

You think? or you know?
The only thing I know for sure is that I think.
I really think I don't know more than that.
I even think that you, or any other human being, don't know anything except that there are some thoughts going on in their head.
Of course, we all hope that those thoughts do reperesent reality (or future reality) a little bit.
And sometimes we really believe (or are really convinced) that those thoughts must represent reality.
But going further than that is I think more of an act of arrogance than an act of intelligence.
Therefore I try not to make statements like: "I know for sure this is true". At least not in a scientific context.
I rather say I think/believe/am convinced this is true, and these are my reasons.

To answer your question:
As I said, I think this will be relatively harmless. I'm actually quite convinced of this. But maybe you convince me otherwise.
Maybe overkees will have some adverse effects. But I don't think it will harm him chronicly in any way.
Why do you think drinking coffee is relatively harmless and this is a really dangerous experiment ?
It's not that overkees is the first one who is going to do this.
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Re: Low cortisol

Post by RRM »

Kasper wrote: Why do you think drinking coffee is relatively harmless and this is a really dangerous experiment ?
Sure, coffe drinking is a bad habit, but relative to other bad habits (eg smoking, drugs, bad diet), it may be relatively harmless.
If people want to start living more healthy, and drinking one espresso in the morning may help them get started,
its relatively harmless indeed. (thats context)

But why would you want to start a (temporary?) new bad habit?
What is the purpose of this experiment?

In my view, its much better to live a very healthy lifestyle for many years consistently,
to find out what ill symptoms may have disappeared.
Yes, much, much better than trying to counteract those symptoms by taking drugs,
as you suggest.
Why is that instead you keep searching for ways to counteract symptoms by taking supplements or drugs?
It's not that overkees is the first one who is going to do this.
How is that making it a good diea?
Kasper
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Re: Low cortisol

Post by Kasper »

But why would you want to start a (temporary?) new bad habit?
What is the purpose of this experiment?
I'm not planning to use this btw, only overkees.
The purpose is, that overkees (and me) wants to reach 40 CP 24/7 (40 second of stress free breath holding test)
The buteyko hypothesis is that above 40 CP the body is reorganizing the whole body.
The body is able to fight candida naturally for example, restore gut lining, detox, etc.
If you remain above 40 CP 24/7 for two weeks, the reorganization will be done, and many issues will be fixed.

For overkees and me, it's quite easy to reach 40 CP in the day.
But it's very difficult to remain it during the night. If you oversleep for many hours, CP drops.

I actually do think, that it's possible to do this without drugs. But I think the process of breaking throug the 40 CP barrier, could take much longer.
I think I've a little bit more luck regarding nlatural cortisol production. And I'm going to try to break through 40 MCP without this drug this summer.
In my view, its much better to live a very healthy lifestyle for many years consistently,
to find out what ill symptoms may have disappeared.
Yes, much, much better than trying to counteract those symptoms by taking drugs,
as you suggest.
I think if you are healthy, or in balance, you should just follow a healthy lifestyle.
If you are not healthy, you should find out which ill symptoms disappear after following a healthy lifestyle.

But sometimes a person does want to speed up time. You only live once.
And I think it is wise to assist the body a little bit, by strengthening the weakest link of the body.
And sometimes supplements/drugs can help with this.
I don't think that it's good to use drugs chronically tough.
I think you should use it, to speed up the process of really getting healthy/balanced.
Why is that instead you keep searching for ways to counteract symptoms by taking supplements or drugs?
I can not answer this question for overkees.
But for me, I think that partly it is just my curious, investigative and explorative nature (or should I say I'm free of opiod peptides :P ?).
And the other part is, that a healthy lifestyle (read: the wai diet) alone doesn't counteract my symptoms either, so I keep searching for new things (not necessarily supplements or drugs btw).
If a healthy lifestyle was not able to cure your acne, wouldn't you search for new things ?
How is that making it a good idea?
It makes it less of an experiment.. less dangerous.
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Re: Low cortisol

Post by RRM »

Kasper wrote: But sometimes a person does want to speed up time. You only live once.
And I think it is wise to assist the body a little bit, by strengthening the weakest link of the body.
You dont know what the weakest link in your body is.
Nobody knows. So, you are just guessing by adressing symptoms.
Addressing symptoms with the use of drugs / supplements is NOT taking away the cause.
Strengthening the weakest link happens if the body does that through adjustment,
enabled by a healthy lifestyle.
I think you should use it, to speed up the process of really getting healthy/balanced.
How does taking drugs / supplements speed up anything?
You only use it to counteract symptoms.
They key is in eliminating the cause, not the symptoms.
the other part is, that a healthy lifestyle (read: the wai diet) alone doesn't counteract my symptoms either
How long have you been on this diet?
Im afraid you are just being impatient, which may prove counterproductive.
Often, by fighting symptoms, you only disguise the underlying cause.
If a healthy lifestyle was not able to cure your acne, wouldn't you search for new things ?
I found various ways to temporarily relief the symptoms,
but i realized that this would not help me in the end.
Instead of fighting the symptoms, i had to take away the cause.
This didnt happen overnight.
It took many years, and i didnt go back to fighting symptoms after trying a healhty lifestyle for a couple of years.
It makes as less of an experiment.. less dangerous.
If you are taking something to fight symptoms,
it doesnt matter how many other people did/do the same,
its still only fighting symptoms,
and it may still have the same adverse effects.
Kasper
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Re: Low cortisol

Post by Kasper »

You dont know what the weakest link in your body is.
Nobody knows. So, you are just guessing by adressing symptoms.
Addressing symptoms with the use of drugs / supplements is NOT taking away the cause.
Strengthening the weakest link happens if the body does that through adjustment,
enabled by a healthy lifestyle.
I think that a weak link of my system, is my tongue. Maybe, if I just follow wai, it will cure in the long-run. But I don't know that.
Now I consider it as a weak link, my body is not able to handle naturally.
So I use medicines (xylitol) to assist my body with this.

If I don't do this, the fungus will release toxic substances, which seems to affect my ability to think clear (brain fog).
I could just hope it would get cured by following the wai diet, but I rather assist my body with medicines like this.
It does not take away the cause (weak immune system), but I think it will help me to restore a healthy balance.
It helps me to think more clear, cause less stress on my immune system, and less toxic substances in my body.

Another weak link is my gut. It assist this with probiotics/biotin.
Another weak link are my feets, I assist those with imasilil.

I could just hope my body restores to a healthy balance by following wai, but I think more of the wai diet as very balanced diet, which help you stay balanced.
But I don't think it is able to cure everything.
How long have you been on this diet?
2.5 years I guess. but I just started following the gaps diet actually (for restoring gut flora).
It's not that far away from the wai-diet. Raw egg yolks are in both diets considered as one of the most important foods.
But gaps diet includes probiotics, excludes sucrose, and some other differences.
It took many years, and i didnt go back to fighting symptoms after trying a healhty lifestyle for a couple of years.
I thought that the wai diet cured your acne in a matter of weeks ? No?
Or are you talking about other symptoms ?
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RRM
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Re: Low cortisol

Post by RRM »

Kasper wrote: If I don't do this, the fungus will release toxic substances, which seems to affect my ability to think clear (brain fog).
I could just hope it would get cured by following the wai diet, but I rather assist my body with medicines like this.
It does not take away the cause (weak immune system), but I think it will help me to restore a healthy balance.
But thats precisely my point. The Xylitol will not fix a malfunctioning immune system.
Actually, adressing the symptoms may even prevent that.
Thats because many things, such as inflammations and infections first need to get bad enough
to sufficiently alarm your immune system to do something about it.
Helping your body with antibiotics, in such a case, may be premature,
and prevent your body from fixing itself, and even cause new damage (such as candida).
Our body has remarkable capcities to heal, but most of the time we are just interfering with drugs.
There is a saying that says: if it doesnt kill you, it makes you stronger.
Another weak link is my gut. It assist this with probiotics/biotin.
And 'assisting it' may be actually be what prevents your body from making the right diagnosis
(as the conditions are altered by your supplements),
and therefore preventing it from coming up with exactly the right cocktail of bacteria etc.
Remember, your body knows exactly what balance it needs.
All we need to do, is trying to hinder as little as possible.
I could just hope my body restores to a healthy balance by following wai, but I think more of the wai diet as very balanced diet, which help you stay balanced.
But I don't think it is able to cure everything.
The diet is not a cure.
Its just an attempt to interfere as little as possible.
The body generally is very much capable of healing itself,
in particular with regards to fungi, bacteria etc.
All we need to do is giving it everything it needs,
without giving it too much of something (and as little bad stuff as possible).
How long have you been on this diet?
2.5 years I guess.[/quote]
Thats not so long.
More importantly, you are doing stuff that are un-wai (supplements etc),
which may prevent proper healing.
It took many years, and i didnt go back to fighting symptoms after trying a healhty lifestyle for a couple of years.
I thought that the wai diet cured your acne in a matter of weeks ? No?
First i had to put this diet together.
I started out with eating 'healthy', which had some effects. Then it became many fruits and very little (cooked) protein.
(with some more effects) It took many years before i finally got it totally right.
All the time I knew diet was key, i just couldnt get it totally right yet.
But i never considered giving up and go back to just fighting the symptoms again.
If your problem is an immune system issue, you need to give your body time to heal itself.
What you are doing now, is interfering with the healing (proper diagnosis > response), in my opinion.
Acne is a very simple physiological issue (water retention, pinched off sebum canals),
but the immune system is extremely complex with lots of feedback systems,
so that it may require a whole chain of adaptations to finally get it right.
The starting position is 'zero intervention', so that the body can diagnose the issue
without any interference.
Anyway, this is my last post for the next 3 weeks, as i will be on holiday!
Logging off....
Kasper
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Re: Low cortisol

Post by Kasper »

Enjoy your holiday ! :)
overkees
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Re: Low cortisol

Post by overkees »

I would totally agree with you 1year ago rrm, but that is when i found out what for huge impact breathing has on health.

If there is not enough oxygenation in the tissues, then a lot of processes will happen to a lesser extent compared to normal cell respiration. Therefore the body must make priorities in what is more vital. This is why almost everyone has at least some symptoms of something.
Therefore you must have a good tissue oxygenation to solve alot of diseases. Diet has a huge impact on the body, this is because if you ingest alot of good substances and as less bad ones as possible, your body always can do everything it can to repair and give energy. Therefore it can act much quicker.
However during sleep, you will not have a high metabolism, which prevents high co2, which in turn prevents high oxygenation. You cant do breathe control during sleep, so you cannot compensate. Therefore, if I sleep for 12 hours I feel terrible. If on the other hand I sleep 7 hours naturally, which happens after a day of a lot of cardio, breath training and sauna, then I feel very energetic happy and can go out of bed immediately.
This is why it is so important that I don't sleep too long. And if something can help me to wake up after 6-7 hours for 2 weeks which is better than cortisosteroids that were aLmost prescribed to me at a point. I will naturally wake after that period too after 6-7 hours, because my breathing stays in a much better range. So it is very temporal and not for the long run.
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