Male pattern baldness

Cancer, Diabetes, Osteoporosis etc.
dime
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Male pattern baldness

Post by dime » Sun 14 Oct 2012 13:51

Maybe I'm just linoleic acid deficient. I don't think I've eaten more than 5g a day, and the RDA is 17g.

A diet only deficient in linoleate causes mild skin scaling and hair loss in mice

dime
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Re: Male pattern baldness

Post by dime » Tue 16 Oct 2012 18:18

A dermatologist checked my hair, did some hair pull test and concluded that the reason for hair fall is androgenic/genetic, based on the fact that I'm healthy, blood test is fine, I don't take any medications, and the hair falls on top but not on the sides. He said there's only two approved solutions, Regaine (topical) and Propecia (pill, needs prescription), and told me to search on the internet and decide if I want to go for any of them. Both are expensive (80-100 eur for 3 months), and both have some potential side effects..
Linoleic acid again comes up, it seems to be an inhibitor of 5-alpha-reductase (enzyme which converts testosterone to DHT). ALA inhibits it 2x more than LA, where as GLA 10x more.
wiki wrote:Zinc,[5] azelaic acid,[5] β-sitosterol,[6] certain unsaturated aliphatic fatty acids such as gamma-linolenic acid, alpha-linolenic acid, linoleic acid, and oleic acid,[7] and a variety of polyphenols[8] have been found to inhibit 5α-reductase activity to varying degrees.

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Re: Male pattern baldness

Post by Kasper » Tue 16 Oct 2012 23:00

In my opinion, blocking 5-alpha-reductase is not the way to go.
If the real problem is DHT, than this is strange.
If I recall correctly, DHT levels are when you are around 16-18 at the highest level, and decline if you get older.

But still DHT level of 70 year old man is higher than that of a 20 year old female.
The only way to get benefits from DHT is to get DHT levels of a female, but as you can imagine, this gives lots of side effects.
But you will get a female looking scalp...

dime
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Re: Male pattern baldness

Post by dime » Wed 17 Oct 2012 09:02

Inhibiting DHT or any other hormone is tricky and potentially dangerous, because not all effects are completely understood.
For example by inhibiting DHT, the incidence of prostate cancer decreases, but the fatality of the cancers increases..
http://www.townsendletter.com/July2012/ ... r0712.html
http://www.fridayharborholistichealth.c ... -problems/
So yes, you can inhibit DHT and stop hair loss/prostate hyperplasia, but at the same time increase your chance of actually dying from some cancer.
As you get older the amount of testosterone that gets converted to DHT increases, maybe the above is the reason (to protect from dangerous cancers?).

The key anticancerous thing seems to be 3b-Adiol, a metabolite of DHT produced via the action of enzymes 3b-HSD and/or 17b-HSD.
3a-Adiol is another metabolite of DHT which simply converts back to DHT; so 3b-Adiol > DHT + 3a-Adiol is considered good, but this is not proven yet.
Coconut and olive oil increase 3b-HSD activity; zinc deficiency decrease it; T3 increases it, so hypothyroidism decrease it; all-trans retinoic acid (ATRA) increases it.
Incidentally, coconut/olive oil and zinc inhibit 5-alpha-reductase; not sure about T3 and ATRA.

It is good to look at the symptoms of 5-AR enzyme deficiency, although it's not a perfect example since people with 5-AR deficiency have it since birth so there are a lot of developmental defects due to DHT deficiency
The condition affects only genetic males (that is, those with a Y-chromosome) because DHT has no known role in female development.[2]
...
In adulthood, individuals do not experience male-pattern baldness.[1]
...
Neither benign prostate hyperplasia (BPH) nor prostate cancer has been reported in these patients.

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RRM
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Re: Male pattern baldness

Post by RRM » Wed 17 Oct 2012 09:53

Male pattern baldness = androgenic alopecia.
Wiki:
Male pattern baldness is caused by a genetic sensitivity of hair follicles to DHT. This hormone causes follicles to shrink or "miniaturize". In turn, this shortens their lifespan and prevents them from producing hair normally...
Recent research suggests that elevated levels of the enzyme prostaglandin D2 synthase and its product prostaglandin D2 (PGD2) in hair follicles causes androgenetic alopecia. Garza A et al
The problem is, that this is so much localized, and therefore hard to address through diet.

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Re: Male pattern baldness

Post by dime » Wed 17 Oct 2012 09:55

I was actually thinking to go to the doctor and get propecia (finasteride). My idea was to take it in smaller amounts than the recommended (e.g. break the pills in 4 pieces or so), in order to offset T -> DHT conversion a bit but not completely inhibit it. The above research got me hesitating though.

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Re: Male pattern baldness

Post by RRM » Wed 17 Oct 2012 11:09

Prostaglandin D2 synthase (Prostaglandin-H2 D-isomerase (PTGDS) = H-PGDS) converts prostaglandin H2 (PGH2) into prostaglandin D2 (PGD2),
so maybe a topical inhibitor of this enzyme will do the trick (to compensate for the elevated level of this enzyme).
HQL-79 is a well known, but relatively weak H-PGDS inhibitor. Aritake K et al
Scientists seem to have designed much more potent H-PGDS inhibitors. Kamauchi S et al
More H-PGDS inhibitors here, but no formulae are provided "The formulae of the inhibitors are proprietary information"Takahashi S et al
TFC-007 is a selective H-PGDS inhibitor. Nabe T et al

H-PGDS levels also seem to decrease rapidly (through the ubiquitin-proteasome system) when intracellular calcium is increased Yazaki M et al Free full text, but (the required) calcium ionophores (to increase intracellular calcium locally) also seem to promote tumors. Kumar S et al

dime
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Re: Male pattern baldness

Post by dime » Wed 17 Oct 2012 17:06

RRM wrote:The problem is, that this is so much localized, and therefore hard to address through diet.
To me it seems similar to the acne problem, but I don't think anyone has ever designed an effective diet for androgenic alopecia :)
The biggest challenge is that it's not clear what exactly is the cause. And the endocrine system is such a complicated matter..

Since my hair loss started intensively a few months ago my scalp often gets inflamed, itchy, and I can notice redness on the skin (parts, not all over) even though I don't scratch it.
Searching around I found out that many people with MPB experience itching, inflamed scalp.
It seems to happen towards the evening usually, I'll try to monitor it regularly, maybe I'll discover some link to specific food or action that would trigger this itching.

dime
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Re: Male pattern baldness

Post by dime » Wed 17 Oct 2012 18:40

Cream containing honokiol inhibits 5-alpha-reductase in the skin: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23049247
They have made the study with the goal of slowing down skin aging, but I don't see why this couldn't work on the scalp to inhibit T -> DHT conversion locally.

There's a bunch of research on this compound: http://www.dreliaz.org/abstract/honokiol-research/

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Re: Male pattern baldness

Post by dime » Thu 18 Oct 2012 21:32

I came across the idea of using cetirizine (antihistamine) topically, to reduce PGD2 in the scalp: http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/sh ... ost1103255
Histamine release was not altered by cetirizine treatment, but prostaglandin D2 (PGD2) production, which peaked at 3 to 5 hours, was clearly reduced by cetirizine treatment, being lower at all time points during the reaction Charlesworth et al.

Recipe to make at home: 50 tabs cetirizine, 50 ml of distilled water, 30 ml of ethanol (70%), Propylene glycol 20 ml

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Re: Male pattern baldness

Post by RRM » Tue 23 Oct 2012 12:06


dime
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Re: Male pattern baldness

Post by dime » Tue 23 Oct 2012 13:21

Awesome :)

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Re: Male pattern baldness

Post by dime » Mon 29 Oct 2012 10:38

I don't want to rush to conclusions (only used 3 times so far) but Pantostin works amazingly well!! And very instantly, if I put it today and I'll notice the effect on reduced hair loss tomorrow already!

First time I tried it I noticed so little hair in the shower that I couldn't believe it, but I wasn't sure if it was exactly the Pantostin or maybe something else (e.g. I ate almost half a kilo fish that day). So then I didn't use it at all for a week or so, and again there was a lot of hair in the shower. I put it again yesterday and the day before, and now normal amount of hair again! It seems too good to be true.. I'll continue putting it and report later again. Here's the info from our wiki on Pantostin:

Alfatradiol/Pantostin is topical ethanolic solution that inhibits 5-AR when applied on the scalp. The ethanol can irritate the skin.
- 7.5 months treatment with alfatradiol increased the proportion of frontal anagen hair statistically significantly, in women from 69 % to 77 % (means) and in men from 56 % to 65 % (Wozel et al.)
- Minoxidil is more effective at stimulating hair growth, but at least Alfatradiol decreases hair loss (Blume-Peytavi et al.)
- No prescription is needed in Germany, so it's fairly safe, besides the possibility of skin irritation. It doesn't seem to be available in the US.

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Re: Male pattern baldness

Post by dime » Thu 01 Nov 2012 10:35

I think I spoke too soon about Pantostin.. while there's much less hair in the shower, now I see more hair when combing, so in the end it's probably same amount. I believe the alcohol losens up hair that would anyway fall, so the hair already falls before I even get to the shower, whereas previously this was done by shampoo/warm water. Alcohol itself is not connected to more or less hair loss however, but it may cause increased dandruff.

Either way, I'm continuing with the Pantostin. It is clear that there is no quick fix for this problem, and a topical, localized solution seems much better than taking oral 5-AR inhibitors.

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Re: Male pattern baldness

Post by RRM » Thu 01 Nov 2012 19:38

Agree. How about trying a topical H-PGDS inhibitor?

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