Lipids and thyroid activity

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overkees
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Lipids and thyroid activity

Post by overkees »

PUFAs are mostly concentrated in the skin, because they tolerate cold temperatures better. In experiments where pigs wore sweaters the saturation of the skin was much higher than the naked group. Also cold blooded animals, like fish, often have alot more of these PUFAs, if they would have more saturated fat, they would simply solidify ;). The birds have such high metabolisms and other mechanisms than mammals to prevent the free radical damage of the PUFAs oxidized products. So we can establish that cold has been associated closely with PUFAs. A slow working thyroid also causes more temperatures and it comes to no surpirse that there have been some studies that indicate that PUFAs lower body temperature because they lower the thyroid T3 hormone. High consumption of PUFAs therefore correlates with hypothyroidism.
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Re: Poly-unsaturated fatty acids & Lipid peroxidation

Post by overkees »

Edited from: http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2011/08/lo ... e-thyroid/

In 1995, Vasquez et al tested four very low calorie diets, with variable amounts of carbs, fats and protein, in 48 obese women for 28 days
T3 thyroid hormone levels decreased on all of these severely calorie restricted diets. However, when PUFA was high the decrease in T3 was much larger than when PUFA was low.
In a 1992 paper, Vasquez et al compared two very low calorie diets (600kcal/day), one ketogenic and the other nonketogenic. The fat sources were soybean oil and refined and stabilized vegetable oils.

Group 1: Fat: 58%, Carbs: 9%, -43% T3 variation after 4 weeks
Group 2: Fat: 15%, Carbs: 51%, -13% T3 variation after 4 weeks

In Ullrich et al 1985, a study of healthy young adults, although TSH, T4, and rT3 did not change significantly, T3 levels on a high polyunsaturated diet decreased more than on a high protein diet:
“The triiodothyronine (T3) declined more (P less than .05) following the HF diet than the HP diet (baseline 198 micrograms/dl, HP 138, HF 113). Thyroxine (T4) and reverse T3 (rT3) did not change significantly. Thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH) declined equally after both diets”
In the Vermont study, where the low carb diet was high in PUFA fat, that was the case too:
“During maintenance eating, levels of T3 (triiodothyronine) were higher on the high-carb diet. When subjects on the low-carb diet began eating the higher-carb mixed weight gain diet, their T3 levels rose. T3 levels among those who went from the high-carb maintenance diet to the mixed diet remained unchanged. In contrast to T3, serum concentrations of T4 were unchanged by overeating or changes in dietary composition.”
There is a connection between thyroid activity and obesity. Reduced thyroid activity reduces energy expenditure (“calories out”) and promotes weight gain; normal thyroid function tends to promote normal weight. So we can use the vast number of obesity studies as indirect evidence for the effects of different types of diet on the thyroid.
“Again, that both groups gained weight should come as no surprise. However, the group overfed the mixed diet required more calories (2,625 kcal/m2 per day) to maintain their new heavier weights than did the group overfed fat (1,840 kcal/m2 per day). Baseline differences in metabolism between the two groups were ruled out, as there was no difference in total calories required to maintain initial lean weights.”
So the high-PUFA diet promoted weight gain: it caused excess weight to be retained at a lower calorie intake. This is consistent with reduced thyroid activity.

Since 1945, it has been known that men fed a high carbohydrate and then a high saturated fat diet needed about the same amount of calories to mantain their weight in cold temperature. The high-fat diet consisted largely of butter and cream; the high-carbohydrate diet of extra sugar. When eating the butter and cream, subjects had to eat more calories to maintain weight than when eating the sugary diet – 202% of baseline calorie intake vs 191%. Every subject had to increase calories when eating high-fat. This suggests higher thyroid hormone levels on the high-saturated fat diet than on a high-carb diet.

The volek study

The Volek study is very interesting because it was not calorie restricted (only carbohydrate was restricted) and was done in normal-weight man. The amount of polyunsaturated fat increased a little (from 6 to 11% of calories), but was still low; saturated and monosaturated fats were the main fats of the low carb-high fat diet. Although he did not directly measured T3 nor rT3 we have indirect evidence that they were not impaired.

One very well known fact is that hypothyroid patients, even when taking T4 hormones, usually struggle to lose fat. This occurs because, when thyroid hormones are low, especially when T3 (triidothyronine) is low , the basal metabolism is decreased. If the LCHF diet was impairing the thyroid these healthy normal weight men, who had been advised to eat enough calories to maintain their weight during the intervention, should have struggled to lose fat mass. In fact they lost 3.3 kg (7.3 pounds) in 6 weeks on an 8% reduction in calorie intake. The control group did not lose any weight despite an 11% reduction in calorie intake.

More, testosterone levels usually decrease when thyroid hormones are low. IGF-1 levels are also decreased in hypothyroidism. Glucagon levels are higher in hypothyroid patients. Sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) is low in hypothyroidism 1 2 3. But none of these parameters changed during the LCHF (mainly SFA) diet.

So this diet which was low in carb (8% of calories) and moderately high in protein (30%) and PUFA (11%) does not seems to affect the thyroid if saturated and monosaturated fat (50% of calories) are the main fat of the diet.

Cold endurance

In http://pmid.us/21023297 and http://pmid.us/21023298 We can see that in a group of men who had high butter and cream consumption (high saturated fatty acid diet) that contributed to their higher fat intake compared to the other groups, body temperature was higher than a high carbohydrate diet when the body was subjected to cold. It therefore seems fair to assume, since Thyroid hormones are responsible for basal metabolic rate and heat production, that the thyroid functions better on this high saturated fat diet.
fred
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Re: Poly-unsaturated fatty acids & Lipid peroxidation

Post by fred »

overkees wrote:We can see that in a group of men who had high butter and cream consumption (high saturated fatty acid diet) that contributed to their higher fat intake compared to the other groups, body temperature was higher than a high carbohydrate diet when the body was subjected to cold. It therefore seems fair to assume, since Thyroid hormones are responsible for basal metabolic rate and heat production, that the thyroid functions better on this high saturated fat diet.
Fats has the lowest thermogenic effect compared to protein (the highest) and carbs. Yet I have noticed several times that only fat heats me up.
overkees
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Re: Poly-unsaturated fatty acids & Lipid peroxidation

Post by overkees »

fred wrote:
overkees wrote:We can see that in a group of men who had high butter and cream consumption (high saturated fatty acid diet) that contributed to their higher fat intake compared to the other groups, body temperature was higher than a high carbohydrate diet when the body was subjected to cold. It therefore seems fair to assume, since Thyroid hormones are responsible for basal metabolic rate and heat production, that the thyroid functions better on this high saturated fat diet.
Fats has the lowest thermogenic effect compared to protein (the highest) and carbs. Yet I have noticed several times that only fat heats me up.
That's exactly what the research says? Saturated fats warm you up.
overkees
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Re: Poly-unsaturated fatty acids & Lipid peroxidation

Post by overkees »

What about this piece of research on rats:
Fatty acids have the capacity for inhibition of nuclear T3 binding (INB). The present studies were undertaken to describe the INB-activity of fatty acids as a function of chain length, unsaturated bonds, cis-trans configuration, and esterification. 2. Isolated rat liver nuclei were incubated with [125I]T3 in the absence or presence of fatty acids in concentrations of 0.011, 0.033, 0.1 and 0.3 mM respectively. 3. INB-activity depended on the chain length, being greatest at 14 carbon atoms. 4. INB by unsaturated fatty acids was greater than that of saturated fatty acids, and increased with increasing number of double bonds. 5. Fatty acids in the cis configuration had greater INB-activity than those in trans configuration. 6. Esterification of fatty acids decreased INB-activity: monoglycerides still had some effect, but di- and triglycerides had no effect
To me this indicates that there is a pretty direct link.
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RRM
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Re: Lipids and thyroid activity

Post by RRM »

Its a link between fatty acids and T3.
In the body there are numerous negative and positive feedback systems,
which has more to do with increasing/decreasing effects than with 'better' or 'worse'.
overkees
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Re: Lipids and thyroid activity

Post by overkees »

What we have established is:
1) A lowering of T3 in high PUFA diets
2) Thermogenesis is correlated mainly with T3
3) In a high SFA diet the thermogenesis effect is the highest, the metabolic rate is the highest, and all other measured hormones were measured and stayed normal.
4) a link between inhibition of T3 by unsaturated fatty acids in rats, increasing its inhibition when the bonds go up.

Now, if this is not convincing enough:
In this article of broilers we read:
High-fat diets (polyunsaturated fatty acids) inhibited the extra thyroidal conversion of T4 to T3 in both stocks.

In this article called: Inhibition of triiodothyronine's induction of rat liver lipogenic enzymes by dietary fat.
These data support the hypothesis that polyunsaturated fats uniquely suppress the gene expression of lipogenic enzymes by functioning as competitive inhibitors of T3 action, possibly at the nuclear receptor level.

Another one with rats:
Triiodothyronine-dietary interrelationships in the modulation of brown adipose tissue and liver lipogenesis in the rat.
Suppression of lipogenesis by dietary polyunsaturated fat in both tissues at both ages studied confirms previous studies on adult animals
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RRM
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Re: Lipids and thyroid activity

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overkees wrote:Now, if this is not convincing enough
Convincing enough for what?
That PUFAs regulate thyroid activity?
PUFAs regulate / influence many metabolisms, not just thyroid activity.
Is there a point behind this?
overkees
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Re: Lipids and thyroid activity

Post by overkees »

The point behind this is that a lower thyroid activity results in a lower immunorespone, a lower metabolism and several other things that I will get into later. Therefore, in my opinion, it is better to minimize PUFA intake and maximize SFA:PUFA ratio. This is what we also see in many indigigenous people's, even if they include fish in their diets, they have a lot less dietary PUFAs than the SAD. EXCEPT for the inuit, they live in very cold cultures, eat the whole fish rather than just the filet (like most indigineous people tend to do), and have no intake of sugar. Because that is another thing, sugar and PUFAs influence eachother big time. If your intake of sugar is high, you surely want to minimize PUFA consumption.

The main reason why I, personally, think that increased T3 inhibition by PUFAs via several pathways (yes there are more) is a bad thing, is that it decreases CO2 formation and this causes, as my experience from buteyko can tell me, LOTS of problems. You want to maximize CO2 formation if you ask me. You want a high metabolism in general if you're warm blooded. (As I can see from your diet, RRM, I think you have a very high metabolism :))

This however is still speculation, but I'll update my findings in the near future. I know you don't like speculating, but if you ask me, that's what you're doing too regarding lots of things. There are lots of things that indicate high PUFAs are very bad. I've got so much info and researches to read and evaluate that it's a work in progress. I appreciate your criticism, because I know I can sometimes get a blind eye for things. Like with the nitrates, I think it isn't harmful and might be helpful, but there is too much speculation there that I can't recommend it. However, it resulted in a good article on the waiwiki, didn't it?

What we need to work on is: How much PUFA is the bare minimal? Is there a minimal, there are desaturase enzymes that are inhibited by PUFAs, how will they function when limiting PUFA consumption? Can oleic and palmitoleic acid be unsaturised to PUFAs if needed in the body if deprived of PUFAs? How does vitamin B6 and PUFAs relate to eachother exactly? How much vitamin B6 is required to compensate for the less dietary PUFAs?

All I know now is that the PUFAs in coconut oil, red palm oil, and butter will provide enough PUFAs to avoid the skin diseases associated with a lack of EFAs.
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Re: Lipids and thyroid activity

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overkees wrote:The point behind this is that a lower thyroid activity results in a lower immunorespone, a lower metabolism and several other things that I will get into later.
PUFAs regulate so many things,
and are essential, so that seems unwise to me.
Therefore, in my opinion, it is better to minimize PUFA intake and maximize SFA:PUFA ratio.
Just based on the findings so far?
Thats extremely premature in my opinion.
Thats jumping to conclusions (again).
What do you consider a good PUFA intake? (and based on what?)
This is what we also see in many indigigenous people's, even if they include fish in their diets, they have a lot less dietary PUFAs than the SAD.
Evidence?
If your intake of sugar is high, you surely want to minimize PUFA consumption.
Based on what finding, exactly?
The main reason why I, personally, think that increased T3 inhibition by PUFAs via several pathways (yes there are more) is a bad thing, is that it decreases CO2 formation and this causes, as my experience from buteyko can tell me, LOTS of problems. You want to maximize CO2 formation if you ask me.
Again, you are jumping to conclusions.
Overkees, you really might consider to give it more thoughts (and proper research).
You want a high metabolism in general if you're warm blooded.
Please explain.
This however is still speculation
Phew, im glad that you are being a bit more realistic here.
There are lots of things that indicate high PUFAs are very bad.
Too much of everything is bad.
Too much is too much.
What do you considere too much, and based on what?
I appreciate your criticism, because I know I can sometimes get a blind eye for things. Like with the nitrates, I think it isn't harmful and might be helpful, but there is too much speculation there that I can't recommend it. However, it resulted in a good article on the waiwiki, didn't it?
Yes, and i therefore appreciate your blind eye (not always though). :)
What we need to work on is: How much PUFA is the bare minimal?
No: how much PUFA is optimal.
If you say 'bare minimal', it seems that you are prejudiced.
Can oleic and palmitoleic acid be unsaturised to PUFAs if needed in the body if deprived of PUFAs?
Not possible.
How much vitamin B6 is required to compensate for the less dietary PUFAs?
Vitamin B6 is not the same as PUFAs; it can step in for all the effects of PUFAs.
All we need to know is optimal PUFA intake.
All I know now is that the PUFAs in coconut oil, red palm oil, and butter will provide enough PUFAs to avoid the skin diseases associated with a lack of EFAs.
Thats just ONE aspect.
There are many more aspects to consider.
Lots of metabolisms may be less than optimal due to a relative lack of PUFAs,
before this trickles down to a full blown skin condition.
The amount of PUFAS required for optimal functioning of all systems involved,
may be much higher than the level required to prevent eventual skin diseases.
We dont know that.
overkees
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PUFA & thyroid

Post by overkees »

What happens with too much dietary PUFAs:
Your body slows the metabolism via the thyroid (via several mechanisms, will report later on it*)
Uncoupling the mitochondria to prevent further oxidative damage (the mitochondria produce lots of radicals that will cause alot of peroxidation if the body can't buffer it)

By slowing down the system and reducing the temperature, the generation of free radicals will reduce so that your body can buffer these once again. Therefore, a high metabolism with properly working mitochondria that can be buffered will prefer a higher saturated fatty acid content (this is what we see with EFA deficient rats and mice). If, however, due to genetic advantages (look at the birds) the radical damage created by PUFA oxidation will not be so damaging, higher amounts of HPUFAs can be maintained in the brain without them falling apart.
The smartest thing for the body to do is slowing down metabolism by uncoupling metabolism (what we always see in elderly) reflected by an impairment of the conversion and synthesis of active thyroid hormones (T3). The amount of free radicals produced per time unit will therefore decrease and prevent further oxidation. You can imagine that this slow metabolism will have alot of nasty side effects.

*Im still working on my thyroid and pufa story that I will post, probably, by the end of the week (some really interesting stuff).
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Re: PUFA & thyroid

Post by fred »

overkees wrote:What happens with too much dietary PUFAs:
Too much of anything is bad. So how much is too much PUFAs ?
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Re: Lipids and thyroid activity

Post by overkees »

Yeah, but when compared to SFAs the too much in PUFAs comes alot faster, thats my guess.
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Re: Lipids and thyroid activity

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Its not just about too much.
PUFAs have been shown to have various beneficial effects in numerous studies.
So, its about the optimal intake.
A balanced conclusion is about adequately weighing the pros and the cons.
overkees
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Re: Lipids and thyroid activity

Post by overkees »

Benefits are so relative. Metabolism turns up when PUFA intake is low. So, that it is logical that you need more vitamins too. So comparing rats or people that are deficient in the PUFAs without an adaption to the increased nutritional needs is not the right way to investigate this matter.
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