Where do you get your sodium?

[nini]

I am not convinced that you are meeting your sodium needs, especially in the long run. We need to achieve a healthy balance of potassium/sodium for good health, which is not met by this diet. I can imagine it is wonderful for a cleansing period, but on the long term?

[dionysus]

We need to achieve a healthy balance of potassium/sodium for good health

Why do you say so?

[RRM]

We need to achieve a healthy balance of potassium/sodium for good health

What is that healthy balance exactly?
How much of each?

which is not met by this diet.

You think this diet contains too much potassium relative to sodium?

[nini]

You may find it interesting to read the findings of Sapoty Brook. He worked out that for good balance we need 1:10 or 1:12 at most of sodium:potassium. If you get only 100 mg of sodium, then you could only have 1 g of potassium which is clearly far from sufficient for our bodies. We need a good supply of potassium, and hence more sodium.
Some people believe we need about 500 mg to meet the immediate needs of the body, that would need about 5000 mg of potassium for good balance which is very reasonable for good health.
Check out his website, you will find it interesting.

[RRM]

You may find it interesting to read the findings of Sapoty Brook. He worked out that for good balance we need 1:10 or 1:12 at most of sodium:potassium.

Lots of people work out lots of ratios that they think is better for us.
Im rather looking for scientific evidence though. (something substantial)
The body very effectively ten-fold up- and downregulates the absorption rates for minerals to suit our needs. Therefore those ratios dont make any sense at all, as with those up and down regulations in mind (maximum sodium, minimum potassium, or the other way around) the margins should be extremely wide.
Since about 1996, my diet contains about 160 mg sodium and 11000 mg potassium (1:67).

[djkvan]

Since this diet is very low in sodium perhaps a bit of celtic sea salt might be a good idea in the OJ as sodium is required for the active transport of glucose, etc., across the brush border in the small intestine. I'm wondering about the degree of recycling done with minerals, vitamins, etc., in the body. The body contains 3-4g of iron, which is largely recycled within the body. In fact only about 1-2mg/day are lost through sweating, skin shedding, etc., so I am wondering how this transfers to other nutrients.

As per wiki:

The human requirement for sodium in the diet is about 1.5 grams per day,[21] which is typically less than a tenth as much as many diets "seasoned to taste." Most people consume far more sodium than is physiologically needed. Low sodium intake may lead to sodium deficiency (hyponatremia).

Some of the physical symptoms I've experienced since starting this diet parallel those of sodium deficiency and have persisted in spite of changes to fat, protein and carb levels. I know how the diet views RDA's, but the tongue does have a receptor for salt which indicates that it must be of some importance in our day-to-day lives. Though I can't remember ever having a salt craving. I'm not sure I would even recognize what one feels like.

[RRM]

Some of the physical symptoms I've experienced since starting this diet parallel those of sodium deficiency

Which ones?

"Symptoms of hyponatremia include nausea and vomiting, headache, confusion, lethargy, fatigue,
appetite loss, restlessness and irritability, muscle weakness, spasms, or cramps, seizures, and decreased consciousness or coma."

You can easily have your blood sodium levels checked.
Normal serum sodium levels are between 135-145 mEq/L

[djkvan]

Hi, RRM.

What I was concerned with was muscle tone (kinda flaccid in spite of regular use), irritability, daily mild headaches and concentration issues (fogginess and brain pressure in spite of 670g carbs, up from 450g). I'm not convinced that sodium is a concern, but as you said it can be measured through testing.

[Kasper]

What I don't understand.

People like salt.
You make hormones that make you feel happy when you eat salt.

To me, this suggests that sodium is very important, and that you can easily get not enough of it.
Otherwise I can't explain why we like it that much.

[RRM]

To me, this suggests that sodium is very important

Of course its important; its a nutrient. Im not disputing that at all.

and that you can easily get not enough of it.

Yes, but in the context of what our natural diet is; what circumstances our body is designed for.
Consuming mostly fruits and maybe some insects and worms (just speculating here), we might easily ingest little salt,
indeed.
However, (on this diet) nowadays we can eat sea-fish and egg yolks daily.
On a normal diet people ingest so much salt that our natural body mechanism (preference) regarding salt cannot possibly be accurate anymore;
meaning that our salt cravings might be completely out of touch with the actual salt levels in our body.
And if thats the case on a normal (salt ridden) diet, how can it be accurate for people on Wai?

[Oscar]

So far I haven't had any cravings for salty food, or salt as such. If we would need/want more salt (accurately or not) I think we would get those cravings.

[djkvan]

Might a salt craving be misidentified I wonder? I found this:

Researchers at the University of Illinois have done studies which indicate that salt cravings, as well as the reason for the overly high amount of salt we eat daily, is because salt is a natural anti-depressant. They are discovering that just as people reach for sugar when they are depressed, that also may be the reason they are reaching for salt. Salt stimulates a pleasure mechanism in the brain and makes us feel better. In that way, salt cravings may be very similar to other addictions. Obviously, much more research will need to be done in this area.

http://www.healthandnutritiontips.net/s ... vings.html


The rest of the article is pretty interesting, IMO.

There are a few different types of conditions where sodium is low (hyponatremia). As per wiki:

In Chronic hyponatremia sodium levels drop gradually over several days or weeks and symptoms and complications are typically moderate. Chronic hyponatremia is often called asymptomatic hyponatremia in clinical settings because it is thought to have no symptoms; however, emerging data suggests that “asymptomatic” hyponatremia is not actually asymptomatic.[3]


I am in the lobby of the library/community center on my laptop right now and there is a gentleman beside me eating a Subway sub. I believe that I can smell the salt in the cold cuts. It is making my mouth water.

[Kasper]

But if salt triggers the same reaction as sugar, I would say that salt is immense important to survive.
Is this reaction only for sodium or also for more minerals?

So 100% vegans are probarbly lacking sodium if they dont add salt?

[RRM]

But if salt triggers the same reaction as sugar, I would say that salt is immense important to survive.
Is this reaction only for sodium or also for more minerals?

Only salt, as far as im aware of.
Yes, it is essential, but it may only be of 'immense importance' in hot climates,
as thats where you readily lose too much salt by sweating.
Originally, thats where we are from.

So 100% vegans are probarbly lacking sodium if they dont add salt?

Yes, but i dont think that vegans avoid salt.

[Kasper]

Well vegan guru David Wolfe for sure doesn't avoid it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdL5VUKiwlI

I think you are right if you have no cravings there are no problems, because our body is pretty good in letting us know we need it.