vitamin K2, the menaquinones...

[MrBBQ]

Hey all,

Another post, another day...

I'd like to know where vitamin K2 (with different menaquinone isoforms) comes from in the wai diet. I understand that vitamin K1 is poorly converted to vitamin K2 in the human eco-community, even in optimal health.
Vitamin K2 is implicated in bone/dental health (mineral deposition, salivary pH), amongst other factors.
The wai literature never mentions K2, although it seems from other sources that it is a dietary requirement (found in grass-fed dairy, natto-fermented soy bean and other ferments).
I also find it interesting that a high-(ripe)fruit diet coupled with a lack of K2 (and D3, A, with adequate magnesium+calcium from fruit), could contribute to enamel erosion, which I'm sure I've read examples of among wai dieters/abandoners.
Naturally, I'd be interested in responses from long-term wai advocates, who're knowledgeable about the role of K2 and who suffer no dental/skeletal problems.

Any insights would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

Sayonara!
MrBBQ

[RRM]

Vitamin K is a group fat soluble vitamins that includes vitamin K1 (phylloquinone / phytomenadione) and vitamin K2 (menaquinone / menatetrenone)
Plants produce vitamin K1 and bacteria (also in animals) produce various vitamin K2 forms (also in meat, egg yolks, cheese etc)
Bacteria in the small intestines can also convert K1 to K2.
Synthetic K3 (menadione) has shown toxic properties.

From wikipedia:

"Vitamin K2 is normally produced by bacteria in the intestines, and dietary deficiency is extremely rare unless the intestines are heavily damaged, are unable to absorb the molecule, or due to decreased production by normal flora, as seen in broad spectrum antibiotic use"

[Oscar]

Sugar: http://www.waidiet.com/twd-sugar.html

[CSIV]

According to the nutrient calculator, I am getting no vitamin K. The book says that egg yolk and avacado contain this, and I am eating 5 yolks and 2 (might bump to 3) avacados a day. Is there an error somewhere?

Thanks

[Oscar]

Try the [2] version of the foods, that'll give you the vit. K amounts.
(based on data obtained from Souci SW et al, Food Composition and Nutrition Tabels. Medpharm Scientific Publishers Stuttgart.)

[RRM]

I think this thread answers your questions.
If not, please post your remaining questions here.

1 avocado contains 35 mcg vitamin K
1 egg yolk contains 24 mcg vitamin K
1 kiwi contains 24 mcg vitamin K
1 prune contains 8 mcg vitamin K

[dandate2]

What are your thoughts on this article about vit. K from mercola http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... overy.aspx

[RRM]

"We will have to trust Dr. Vermeer on his assesment that most are too deficient to reap all its health benefits"

So, buy supplements from Mercola ("MK7"), and you are safe.

[RRM]

1 kiwi contains 33 mcg vitamin K
1 avocado contains 35 mcg vitamin K
1 orange contains 5 mcg (1L OJ is made of 8 to 16 oranges, so that may yield more than 50 mcg / L !!!)
1 peach contains 3 mcg
100 grams of strawberries contains 13 mcg
100 grams of plums contains 12 mcg
100 grams of mackerel contains 5 mcg
100 grams of grapes contains 3 mcg

[Kasper]

Vitamin K2 may be very beneficial in preventing osteoporosis:

"Our results suggest that vitamin K2 inhibits apoptotic cell death of osteoblasts and maintains the number of osteoblasts. These actions may explain the therapeutic efficacy of vitamin K2 in osteoporosis."\
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10985496

[RRM]

That K2 is essential for bone health is well known.

[Aytundra]

I am just concerned about the source:
[2] Souci, Fachmann and Kraut, Food Composition and Nutrition Tabels, Medpharm Scientific Publishers Stuttgart (specified as [2]).
Did Souci measure the amount of vitamin K correctly?
It is not a green egg?
Intuitively, when I think of vitamin K, I think of a green colour, because a lot of leafy greens peak in the nutrition of vitamin K, like cucumber, cucumber with no skin, asparagus, brussel sprouts, celery, swiss chard, parsley, watercress, spinach, endives, broccoli, cabbage, okra.
But I guess my colour logic breaks, when fruits like blueberries, plums, pomegranate and grapes also peak in vitamin K. Unless the green colour is masked by antioxidant colour pigments within blueberries, pomegranate, grapes... if colour masking is true, then my colour logic, still holds true, and my main question to Souci is: Did you measure vitamin K in egg yolks correctly?

[Oscar]

Souci: yes.

[RRM]

Intuitively, when I think of vitamin K, I think of a green colour, because a lot of leafy greens peak in the nutrition of vitamin K,

Vitamin K1 is directly involved in photosynthesis.
Photosynthesis also requires green chlorophyll pigments.
Hence the correlation between the colour green and vitamin K.
Egg yolks are high in vitamin K2 because it is required for eggshell calcium translocation Tuan RS et al and (a metabolite) as a chain-breaking antioxidant, protects the lecithin vesicles in egg yolks. Fiorentini D et al

Interestingly, the influence of a certain amount of K1 in green veggies is smaller (maybe 10-fold) than the effect of the same amount of K2 in egg yolks, meat, cheese, nattor etc.
This is probably due to the effect of anti-nutrients in green veggies,
as pure K1 is absorbed much more effectively.
Schurgers LJ et al
Vitamin K from egg yolk is very well absorbed because of the phospholipids it contains.
Egg yolk phosphoplipds are used as a vehicle for drug delivery. Sakaeda T et al