Putrefaction product neurine in yolks

About specific vitamines, minerals or fiber, for example
djkvan
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Re: Putrefaction product neurine in yolks

Post by djkvan »

They'll be saying that about the data you have compiled for the Wai theory in 127 years then (if evidence of it still exists on the internet). Fair is fair.
I do so like green eggs and ham. Thank you, thank you. Sam I am.
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RRM
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Re: Putrefaction product neurine in yolks

Post by RRM »

Of course.
Luckily, continuously lots of studies will be published in the meantime that we can use.
You have to keep up with developments.
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Oscar
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Re: Putrefaction product neurine in yolks

Post by Oscar »

djkvan wrote: I just linked to it by clicking on the exact link I provided.
I will walk you through the process, Oscar.
1. Click on the link.
2. Read the information (the article entitled The Nature of Ptomaines at the bottom of middle column of American Druggist pg 109 )
3. Stop you're done
Let me walk you through my process, djkvan.
1. I click on your link.
2. There is nothing to read except a table of non-clickable contents and related books, other editions and bibliographical information.
3. Stop I'm done.

I guess you couldn't imagine something going wrong with your link, but maybe now the possibility of it might enter your frame of reference.
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RRM
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Re: Putrefaction product neurine in yolks

Post by RRM »

Djkvan,

I know you are fond of copying and pasting,
so why dont you just copy and paste the info so that we can read it as well?
djkvan
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Re: Putrefaction product neurine in yolks

Post by djkvan »

Eureka! I was able to convert the document to plain text and copy it. Prior it wouldn't allow me to copy in its initial format. Here it is from American Druggist, June 1884. Drumroll please...

The Nature of the Ptomaines.

F. MARtNO-Zuco has come to some interesting conclusions regarding the nature of the so-called ptomaines, which appear, however, to require further confirmation.

The author's experiments were made on a variety of fresh animal substances, viz., white and yolk of egg, brains, lungs, heart, liver, spleen, and blood, several methods being employed, with strict attention to all the conditions indicated by their authors. The result of these experiments was the extraction of a base which exhibited all the usual reactions of the alkaloids, but had the constitution of an ammonium hydroxide, and, in those cases in which an aurochloride could be prepared and analyzed, was found to be identical in composition with neurine. In one instance, traces were also found of the so-called "animal quinine."

To determine the origin of this neurine, the author applied the methods above mentioned to the lecithins (prepared by Strieker's method from egg yolk), and found that these substances behave in the same manner, as, for example, a mass of brain, egg, lungs, etc., on applying the same method to the albumen remaining after complete extraction of the lecithins: the result was purely negative. Hence, it is clear that the so-called ptomaines obtained in the extraction of fresh animal substances originate, not as is generally supposed, from sudden alterations of the proteids, but from the splitting up of the lecithins under the influence of acids or alkalies.

As neurine hydrochloride is not decomposed by sodium bicarbonate, the author was able to determine the topological question in cases of the extraction of alkaloids from substances in which putrefaction has not yet commenced. The hydrochlorides of the alkaloid and of the so-called ptomaines, simultaneously extracted, are dissolved in water, ana the liquid, rendered alkaline with sodium bicarbonate, is agitated with the solvent. The neurine then remains dissolved in the water as hydrochloride, and the alkaloid may then be extracted alone. This has been demonstrated by all the experiments made as above described, and by others on yolk of egg mixed with strychnine.

In a subsequent paper the author describes a number of experiments, chemical and physiological, tending to establish the conclusion indicated in the preceding preliminary notice, as to the identity of these bases with neurine. The most characteristic chemical reactions observed in both cases are:

With phosphoric acid: Slight brown coloration on heating.

With platinic chloride: No precipitate, but deposition of yellowish crystals after a short time.

With mercuric chloride: White precipitate.

With auric chloride: Yellowish precipitate, and, after a short time, reduction of metallic gold.

With iodized potassium iodide: Redbrown precipitate, which, however, soon redissolves.—Gaz. Chim. It., 13, 431, and 441 and Journ. Chem. Soc.
I do so like green eggs and ham. Thank you, thank you. Sam I am.
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RRM
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Re: Putrefaction product neurine in yolks

Post by RRM »

Thank you, but where does it say that fresh egg yolk contains neurine?
djkvan
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Re: Putrefaction product neurine in yolks

Post by djkvan »

The author's experiments were made on a variety of fresh animal substances, viz., white and yolk of egg...

As neurine hydrochloride is not decomposed by sodium bicarbonate, the author was able to determine the topological question in cases of the extraction of alkaloids from substances in which putrefaction has not yet commenced. The hydrochlorides of the alkaloid and of the so-called ptomaines, simultaneously extracted, are dissolved in water, ana the liquid, rendered alkaline with sodium bicarbonate, is agitated with the solvent. The neurine then remains dissolved in the water as hydrochloride, and the alkaloid may then be extracted alone. This has been demonstrated by all the experiments made as above described, and by others on yolk of egg mixed with strychnine.
I do so like green eggs and ham. Thank you, thank you. Sam I am.
abicahsoul
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Re: Putrefaction product neurine in yolks

Post by abicahsoul »

:lol: aha.. strychnine.. that's not good for ya?
why on earth mix yolk with strychnine? and then draw some conclusions about how yolk is bad for you.. hihi..
but what do I know..:)
my experiences with strychnine are purely musical and I wish it to stay that way..
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RRM
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Re: Putrefaction product neurine in yolks

Post by RRM »

This 1884 document is showing us how scientists were still in the process of learning about purification;
and how they actually managed to do so regarding various alkaloids.
It does NOT say that neurine was found in fresh egg, brains, lungs, heart, liver or spleen.
Marino-Zuco was able, 'by splitting up lecithins under the influence of acids or alkalies',
to 'extract alkaloids' from those animal tissues (which is called purification),
and when he used aurochloride, he was able to yield neurine,
which is not at all the same as finding neurine being naturally present in one or more of these (fresh) tissues.
Its yielding neurine through purification.
...and by others on yolk of egg mixed with strychnine.
So, when they mixed the egg yolk with strychinine, they were able to yield neurine, right?
This is not at all the same as finding neurine in fresh egg yolk...
Do you honestly think that the egg industry is going to promote this info?
Its not just about eggs, but about all animal tissue, as all animal tissues (and even plants) contain choline,
and lecithine is widely added to food products and medicines (and present in animal and plant tissues).
Some high-choline foods: Liver, eggs, cod, chicken, milk, soy, cauliflower, spinach,
wheat, kidney beans, quinoa, amaranth, grapefruit, rice, peanuts, almonds.
Through purification (and by putrefaction), one can yield neurine from all of these foods / products.
djkvan
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Re: Putrefication product neurine in yolks

Post by djkvan »

RRM wrote:Do you now understand that if you base a notion on such an old document,
without the actual documentation of a scientific study, you cannot possibly make a valid claim?
I understand that the document is unsatisfactory and incomplete from a current research standpoint. Unfortunately I can't seem to find any more data from the study.
I do so like green eggs and ham. Thank you, thank you. Sam I am.
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