Calcium absorption and protein

About specific vitamines, minerals or fiber, for example
overkees
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Calcium absorption and protein

Postby overkees » Tue 11 Oct 2011 10:24

I found a very interesting article supporting low protein intake for maximum calcium abosorption:
http://www.heretical-health.info/protei ... cians.html

Im very interested in your comments/suggestions. I think this supports the idea that humans weren't made for meat eating and milk drinking.
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RRM
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Re: Calcium absorption and protein

Postby RRM » Tue 11 Oct 2011 10:33

Check this out:
http://www.4.waisays.com/protein-cons.htm

Why would maximizing calcium absorption be beneficial?
overkees
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Re: Calcium absorption and protein

Postby overkees » Tue 11 Oct 2011 10:51

I'm just thinking that if we lower protein intake, calcium absorption is increased, but is not increased to more than the body needs. As this is the case when an excessively large dose of calcium is ingested for a longer period of time. Thenn the body can't balance itself because you keep it supplying it with calcium. It gets tired and stops the process of balancing and focuses on other tasks.

Like when watching a background for a long time, your eyes stop to process the information because nothing is changed and start to turn off and focusing on more important tasks. But if you keep lighting the eyes, it will cause tiredness because they are on constant pressure.

Suggesting low protein intake (but quality proteins for rebuilding muscle tissue etc!) is good for the best absorption rate for calcium. So you need less calcium, but still optimalising the absorption rate.

Maybe it's because proteins have a highly anabolic property. For example: Increasing insulin, but not increasing blood sugar as carbohydrates do. Rebuilding purposes etc. So if the body gets large doses of protein it will be in the anabolic state, also stimulating cell renewal.. That would be a logical explanation. But as the body is quite complex i don't know if it can be thought about it this way. Although i like seeing things easy, with no ghosts in the machine. Male and female properties, opposing sides to keep the balance. Anabolic properties (dynamic, always changing) as opposed to catabolic (static, absorbing).
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Re: Calcium absorption and protein

Postby RRM » Tue 11 Oct 2011 11:01

overkees wrote:I'm just thinking that if we lower protein intake, calcium absorption is increased, but is not increased to more than the body needs.
Why would you want to increase calcium absorption?
Suggesting low protein intake (but quality proteins for rebuilding muscle tissue etc!) is good for the best absorption rate for calcium.
Your body has no problem adjusting the calcium absorption rate, regardless of protein intakes.
Even when people are fed very low calcium diets, their bones still become very strong.
And in countries where protein intakes are very high, the bones have no problem whatsoever to absorb sufficient calcium.
Only when burdened with excessive high calcium intakes, your body may have problems adjusting the absorption rate accordingly.
overkees
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Re: Calcium absorption and protein

Postby overkees » Tue 11 Oct 2011 11:10

Okay, I'm glad to hear the body can adjust the rates perfectly fine. And needs no help.

So we can conclude that increasing calcium and increasing protein intake has a devastating effect on osteoporosis. Increasing the absorption rate and an excess amount of calcium. Man, consuming dairy keeps getting worse and worse.

Also your article suggested that estrogen protects the bones? So women need to drink lots of grapefruit juice in certain days of the month? And after the menopause? Could that be of help? Grapefruit also has other properties in decreasing your food intake. That would be a lot of help for menstruating frustration: Eating grapefruits, preventing caloric intake, so weight is lost, while also providing more estrogen, eating egg yolks for reducing the cramps and pain relief. Combined with the reduced breathing technique.

Of course in a wai diet, grapefruits aren't needed. But in a sad diet, I think it could be a very effective medicine.
overkees
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Re: Calcium absorption and protein

Postby overkees » Tue 11 Oct 2011 13:29

Im sorry, the thing I said above is not true (the dairy paragraph).

So the conclusions are: Eating gluten decreases absorption rate of calcium. Eating low protein diets increase calcium absorption rate. Proteins from animal sources and other plant sources than wheat tend to keep a balance.
dime
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Re: Calcium absorption and protein

Postby dime » Tue 11 Oct 2011 16:23

I get 200mg calcium from food per day, do you guys think this is enough? I know the RDA is overblown, but I wouldn't want to get too low.
overkees
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Re: Calcium absorption and protein

Postby overkees » Tue 11 Oct 2011 17:54

It should have a one to one ratio with phosphorus and magnesium. There also should be enough vitamin D in your diet, which is much more important. Don't let it exceed the 2:1 ratio with magnesium or phosphorus.
dime
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Re: Calcium absorption and protein

Postby dime » Tue 11 Oct 2011 18:16

Magnesium is twice as much as calcium, phosphorus is 5.5x (1100mg/day). Vitamin D is plenty from fish and yolks.

Why should those ratios be maintained? I think it would be quite hard to achieve them, unless I get some calcium supplement.
overkees
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Re: Calcium absorption and protein

Postby overkees » Tue 11 Oct 2011 19:13

That are the recommendations for SAD at least. Don't know about ours. Our intake of magnesium always exceeds calcium.

How come it is so low? My calcium is 600? Well, I guess that if your Vitamin D supply is good, calcium is alright. Vitamin D is essential in mainting balanced calcium levels. As well as some other minerals.

Upping it a bit can't do much harm though.
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Re: Calcium absorption and protein

Postby dime » Tue 11 Oct 2011 19:40

Wow how do you get that much calcium? I guess for me it's so low because I don't eat much nuts at all, and I eat mostly bananas instead of oranges, which have a lot more magnesium than calcium. Oranges are the other way around.

I ordered 150mg calcium pils, just to be safe.
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Re: Calcium absorption and protein

Postby RRM » Wed 12 Oct 2011 14:27

overkees wrote: Also your article suggested that estrogen protects the bones?
Yes, when estrogen levels are too low, there is too little estrogen available for protecting the bones against excessive calcium.
So women need to drink lots of grapefruit juice in certain days of the month?
No, women should stay away from estrogen-lowering foods, such as soy (milk)
They should also prevent too much physical stress causing too low estrogen levels (as in female athletes)
Of course in a wai diet, grapefruits aren't needed. But in a sad diet, I think it could be a very effective medicine.
Yes, but there is a risk of self-medication; Elevated estrogen levels increases breast cancer risk.
So, in my opinion, if one's estrogen levels are too low, one should not self-medicate, but seek professional help.
(particularly for monitoring estrogen levels)
overkees wrote:Im sorry, the thing I said above is not true (the dairy paragraph).
what exactly?
Eating low protein diets increase calcium absorption rate.
Actually, Protein consumption has anabolic (and catabolic) effects on bone-formation.
Protein intake seems to correlate with both bone-mineral density and hip-fracture incidence.
dime wrote:I get 200mg calcium from food per day, do you guys think this is enough? I know the RDA is overblown, but I wouldn't want to get too low.
300 mg is about the safe level.
So, you might need to increase OJ intake.
dime wrote:I ordered 150mg calcium pils, just to be safe.
In your specific case that is a good idea.
overkees wrote:It should have a one to one ratio with phosphorus and magnesium.
Based on what?
Lets have that discussion here:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2750
That are the recommendations for SAD at least
the question is: on what notion / finding is that recommendation based on?
Lets have that discussion here:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2750

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