Fructose - fat, pancreatic cancer, insulin

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Jules
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Fructose - fat, pancreatic cancer, insulin

Post by Jules »

I was wondering what people thought of this article:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... n=20130211

Thanks
Jules
Fructose, a simple sugar found in fruit, is preferentially metabolized to fat in your liver, and eating large amounts has been linked to negative metabolic and endocrine effects. So eating very large amounts – or worse, nothing but fruit– can logically increase your risk of a number of health conditions, from insulin and leptin resistance to cancer.

For example, research has shown that pancreatic tumor cells use fructose, specifically, to divide and proliferate, thus speeding up the growth and spread of the cancer.

As a general health rule, I recommend limiting your total fructose consumption to about 25 grams per day on average, and that includes fructose from fruit. However, if you have insulin resistance, heart disease, cancer or high blood pressure, you may want to cut it down to 15 grams or less.

>>> more >>>
Kasper
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Re: Dr. Mercola Article on Fruit consumption

Post by Kasper »

Mercola bashes everything that has to do with fructose.
I think that there enough people with succes on the wai diet to prove that there don't have to be problems with high sugar diet.
There are probably even more people around that testifies that they have sucess with ray peats diet (also very high in sugar and orange juice).

Recently my little brother started with consuming much orange juice (around 1.5L a day). And he also uses the versapers a lot (berries,mandarins,carrots etc.).
He is now doing better then he ever done (eated normal western diet before). He has better stools then ever, more energy, and looks a lot better.

So for some people, sugar works great, but not for all, for me for example, I can only tolerate high amounts of sugar in the diet from honey. Otherwise my stools get diarhea like.
I think that for some every form of sugar can causes problems. For those people, it would be mabe wiser to first fix other health problems, before they increase there amount of sugar.

It must be said consuming sugar in very small amounts frequently (in the form of sipping orange juice all day) makes it much easier to tolerate sugar. I don't think there have ever been studies done with consuming sugar in this way tough. Nevertheless, I think those studies mercolas points out to are worth studying and it would be interesting to know why different people react differently on high sugar consumption.
overkees
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Re: Dr. Mercola Article on Fruit consumption

Post by overkees »

Kasper wrote:Recently my little brother started with consuming much orange juice (around 1.5L a day). And he also uses the versapers a lot (berries,mandarins,carrots etc.).
He is now doing better then he ever done (eated normal western diet before). He has better stools then ever, more energy, and looks a lot better.
Haha, have you indoctrinated him long enough to make a change? :D

Same goes for my girlfriend, I was telling her so many about food and health that she decided to give it a try and now feels alot better on it and deosn't want to go back. She did lose lots of weight though.. too much if you ask me. It's very hard to maintain weight on the wai diet for most people.

From what I've seen is that once you go wai, you can never go back to a typical western diet. More in general I think that most people who quit bread will never fully return to eating those amounts anymore.
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RRM
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Re: Fructose - fat, pancreatic cancer, insulin

Post by RRM »

Mercola wrote:Fructose, a simple sugar found in fruit, is preferentially metabolized to fat in your liver
Fructose and galactose are phosphorylated in the liver. Glucose can be be metabolised anywhere in the body.
Fructose > fructose 1-phosphate > dihydroxyacetone phosphate + glyceraldehyde (glyceraldehyde > glyceraldehyde-3-phosphate).
So, exactly as in glycolysis (from glucose), the result is:
- dihydroxyacetone phosphate
- glyceraldehyde-3-phosphate (or glycerol 3-phosphate )

These can be converted to glucose, glycogen, pyruvate or fatty acids (and triglycerides).
According to Wiki:
Wiki wrote:"It appears that fructose is a better substrate for glycogen synthesis than glucose and that glycogen replenishment takes precedence over triglyceride formation.
Once liver glycogen is replenished, the intermediates of fructose metabolism are primarily directed toward triglyceride synthesis."
So, once your liver glycogen depot is full, yes, then the extra fructose goes to fat depots.
So, if you eat some fruit after a normal meal (on a normal diet), or too much fruit in one sitting, the fructose will fuel fat depots.
Mercola should have specified that is about high fructose in one meal.
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RRM
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Re: Fructose - fat, pancreatic cancer, insulin

Post by RRM »

Mercola wrote:research has shown that pancreatic tumor cells use fructose, specifically, to divide and proliferate, thus speeding up the growth and spread of the cancer.
Cancer cells are normal cells, gone astray.
Cancer cells, like normal cells, need fuel, so they use glucose.
Cancer cells can also perfectly use fructose, and many other nutrients.
It has been long known that putting yourself in 'a starvation mode' inhibits cancer growth, of various cancers.
For specific cancers, the source of most influential nutrients on their growth, is different.
For some its specific amino acids, for these pancreatic tomurs, its fructose.
Does that say something about fructose, or does that say something about specific cancer treatment conditions?
Actually, that is what the authors of the linked article wrote:
"They have major significance for cancer patients". Heaney P et al

Mercola, however, turns it into another bad marking on the fructose black list.
Mercola wrote:An all-fruit diet is essentially an all-fructose diet
What does he mean?
That fruits contain only fructose, and no sucrose / glucose?
Mercola wrote:If you are not insulin resistant, you may increase this to 25 grams of total fructose per day on average (incl. from whole fruit)
Total fructose?
OJ contains 2.8% fructose and 4.3% sucrose, which is 5% fructose in total.
Half a liter OJ contains 25 grams of total fructose.
So, consuming any more fructose from whatever source (fruit, veggies, sugar etc) is bad for your health, according to Mercola.
Mercola wrote:I personally developed diabetes when I tried the "Eat Right for Your Blood Type" diet, which included eating large amounts of fruit for breakfast
Here you go: too much fruit in one sitting.
Smart guy....
Now we know why he is a fructose-basher.
Jules
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Re: Fructose - fat, pancreatic cancer, insulin

Post by Jules »

Hi RRM, do you think there is no upper limit to how many grams of fructose can be consumed in a day (of course considering everybody is different and has different needs) if fructose is consumed in small doses throughout the day ? Also will adding olive oil or some fat help to slow down fructose metabolism, if a lot of fruit is eaten in one sitting ?
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Re: Fructose - fat, pancreatic cancer, insulin

Post by RRM »

Jules wrote:Hi RRM, do you think there is no upper limit to how many grams of fructose can be consumed in a day (of course considering everybody is different and has different needs) if fructose is consumed in small doses throughout the day ?
Yes, but of course limited by your energy needs,
and given that you consume fructose contained in fruits, coming with glucose.
For example, in my experience you can simply consume OJ all day, say 4 L, containing 112 grams of fructose and 92 gram glucose,
plus 172 grams of sucrose, containing another 86 grams of fructose. (so, 198 g. of fructose in total).
You just need to add a bunch of drops of oil to each bottle of juice to protect the stomach lining (preventing acid burn).

Fructose is most efficiently absorbed when there is at least as much glucose present.
Free fructose (5 to 50 gram) may be absorbed by the GLUT5 and GLUT2 transport proteins, but that capacity is limited,
though upregulated (particularly GLUT5) when the diet normally contains much free fructose.
But in the presence of sufficient glucose, it may also go through the sucrase related transport system (embedded in the membrane of the small intestine),
and the fructose is then glucose-dependent cotransported.
This system favours sucrose though (as in sucrose the fructose and glucose always come hand-in-hand),
so that additional sucrose inhibits the uptake of free fructose through the sucrase-related transport system.Fujisawa T et al Ushijima K et al Full Free Text
Also will adding olive oil or some fat help to slow down fructose metabolism, if a lot of fruit is eaten in one sitting ?
A little bit, but instead, you should not consume too much fruit in one sitting,
as that is the only solution.
dime
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Re: Fructose - fat, pancreatic cancer, insulin

Post by dime »

Here's a good article I read today - Is Sugar Really Toxic? Sifting through the Evidence
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RRM
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Re: Fructose - fat, pancreatic cancer, insulin

Post by RRM »

Yes, nicely balanced.
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Emeira
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Re: Fructose - fat, pancreatic cancer, insulin

Post by Emeira »

good article: The Effect of Two Energy-Restricted Diets, a Low-Fructose Diet vs. a Moderate Natural Fructose Diet (From fruits)

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/resear ... eview.html
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RRM
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Re: Fructose - fat, pancreatic cancer, insulin

Post by RRM »

Interesting read. Thank you.
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Aytundra
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Fructose

Post by Aytundra »

What about this:
If Kavanagh et al were the police they will put fructose in jail because of their primate study.

But in response:
I think RRM will say the study used too much fructose.
I think Kasper will say the study used too much fructose.
I think Aytundra will say the study used too much fructose.
I think "too much" is the blanket response to disqualify biased police from the work force.
But it does not disqualify the fact that too-much-fructose does something.
I guess the next question to ask is when and how can we know that there are too much fructose in a city?
A tundra where will we be without trees? Thannnks!
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RRM
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Re: Fructose

Post by RRM »

Too much of any nutrient is harmful.
Experimenting with fructose levels does not make any sense, imo.
What makes sense to me is the question:
Can you absorb too much fructose by consuming fruits / veggies, with ill effects?

We already know that the intake of veggies / fruits is associated with increased fructose (and related AGE formation).Krajcovicová-Kudlácková M et al
Then the question is: with ill effects? (in comparison to other foods)
So far, the answer is "no", it's the opposite:

Meta-analyses about fruit/veggie intake and associations with:

all cause mortaility: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25073782
diabetes: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25377009
stroke: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24811336
cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20843486
gastric cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24613128
lung cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21422002
bladder cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25248495
glioma: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25194962
nasopharyngeal cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25008797
esophageal adenocarcinoma: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24448974
colectoral cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23563998
breast cancer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24606455
asthma: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24947126
pancreatic disease: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24509242
non-Hodgkin's lymphoma: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23238796
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RRM
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Re: Fructose

Post by RRM »

Aytundra wrote:What about this:
If Kavanagh et al were the police they will put fructose in jail because of their primate study.
Its a study about Hepatic steatosis (accumulation of fat in the liver). Hepatic steatosis is associated with the development of diabetes and cardiovascular disease.
The funny thing is:
In population studies (the proof is in the pudding), fructose intake (from veggies/fruits) is associated with less diabetes and stroke.

Fructose will only end up as liver-fat once the conversion of fructose in liver-glycogen has been completed.
This liver-glycogen is 'spare glucose' for maintaining the blood-glucose level at the right level.
If you keep on consuming fructose after all liver-glycogen (~400 kcal) has been replenished, the rest is stored as liver-fat.
If you susbsequently are going to use that glycogen to lost blood-glucose, and that fat to replenish blood-fatty acid levels, everything is absolutely fine.
That is the whole purpose of liver-glycogen and liver-fat.
Only if you do not susbsequently use that stored liver-fat, liver-fat may accumulate.

Fructose and glucose go different pathways.
The intake of glucose is easily monitored by you by sensing your blood-glucose level.
Its different for fructose, as the main purpose of fructose is replenishment of liver-glycogen.
If fructose consumption is not coupled with glucose consumption, you may lack the feedback from blood-glucose sensing to control your fructose intake.
In fruit and veggies (and in table sugar), fructose is coupled with glucose.
On the other hand, even if fructose and glucose are uncoupled, you may still want to wait having more food until your blood glucose level goes down due to a lack of liver-glycogen, which makes it safe to consume more fructose.

About the study:
Both the HFr diet and the control diet contain 69 energy% carbs.
An essential difference is that the Hfr diet contains 17 energy% fat and the control diet 13 energy% fat. (i am surprised that they did that)
Other studies have shown that its exactly the combination of sugars and fat that makes you gain weight more readily.
So, one may also attribute the accumulation of liver-fat to the higher level of carb-fat combination.

It would be interesting to compare the effects of consuming grains and tubers (starch>glucose) versus fruits and veggies (glucose, fructose).
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RRM
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Re: Fructose - fat, pancreatic cancer, insulin

Post by RRM »

Obesity rates in the United States have risen consistently over the last four decades, increasing from about 13% of the population in 1970 to more than 34% in 2009. Dietary fructose has been blamed as a possible contributor to the obesity increase, However, our findings indicate that during this 40 year period the percent change in total energy availability increased 10.7%, but that the net change in total fructose availability was 0%. Energy available from total glucose (from all digestible food sources) increased 13.0%. Furthermore, glucose availability was more than 3-times greater than fructose. Energy available from protein, carbohydrate and fat increased 4.7%, 9.8% and 14.6%, respectively.
Full free text
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