Why are fruits so much better than veggies?

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RRM
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Re: Why are fruits so much better than veggies?

Postby RRM » Mon 03 Dec 2012 14:37

dime wrote:I've not heard of toxic wild fruits.
Actually, there are quite a few, but we generally are not familiar with them.
overkees wrote:some 'veggies' beat some of the fruits with the above defined ranking of the foods. Such as carrot vs apples or carrots vs pineapples (and carrots beats alot of other fruits too).
I dont think so.
If you think you can convince me with comparative data about all anti-nutrients, go ahead.
Carrots are roots, and therefore not designed to be consumed (by humans). There is no benefit for the plant whatsoever,
and in that logic they must have more anti-nutrients.
Also, from personal experience; in the beginning i still liked to eat grated carrots, and cucumber,
but for the last couple of years, i dont want to anymore, so i think those 2 definitely dont qualify as optimal.
(sure, you think i needed them for some ailment)
You should only eat sweet oranges and tangerines and soft mangoes and fully ripened bananas.
Naturally thats nonsense.
The Wai diet advocates eating only fully ripe fruits, and many fruits are perfectly edible when fully ripe.
I hope you will define for us what health is in your view, RRM
Normally, (besides energetic etc) it would include the absence of ailments, but thats already tricky enough,
because many people who think they are perfectly healthy, may be developing cancer while not knowing,
for example.
panacea
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Re: Why are fruits so much better than veggies?

Postby panacea » Tue 04 Dec 2012 18:08

If you guys want to change the wai diet as it is now, you should push for more emphasis on grass-fed raw cow parts (beef, fat, organs).
Pretty much the most ideal food right there.
In my opinion you can't make an ideal diet for the entire world because every region has different foods which are high quality and low quality.
For example here in northern US there is horrible quality fruits as well as every other food. There are rare spots, seasonally, that you can get good quality chicken eggs, but you never really know if they're fed insects/grass and let to roam around or if they're in cages and fed processed grains. We are high on the food chain and require the portion of the food chain that is below us to also eat high quality diets or the quality of our food will suck as well. That is why you can say that in a perfect world fruits would be awesome, if they're grown without pesticides, herbicides, growth chemicals, in good soil, and in their proper climate. Problem is that is extremely expensive and usually results in disaster because pesticides and other crude methods are what most agriculture businesses use to control threats and make a bigger profit margin. Furthermore, people can say they're organic but really be dodging the rulebook and using even harsher chemicals on the land just to get out of saying they dont use them on the food itself. End result is the same or even worse quality food. The problem of course is cost vs quality vs mass production vs risk. The best food which battles all of these factors is raw beef because the cows are pretty flexible, more flexible than fruit trees for example, higher turnover, more profit, etc. All they require is high quality right type of grass, experienced butchers, and a wide variety of climates for different types of cows. The end result is a very nutritious food that takes care of most of our needs if the fat and organs are included. Chicken eggs are also similarly profitable and can be done right and still make a profit and not have a pest disaster wipe out the crop every other year, unlike with truly chemical-free grown fruits.

Anyway my point is that it doesn't matter what is best in a space vacuum or in a few rich tropical parts of the world where fruits can grow ripe and don't need much artificial pest control. It matters to most people what works in the majority of the world. And if you really value your health you better find a good paying job that lets you ship high quality food to your area if you have no high quality food around, or grow/raise it yourself.

That type of logic should be in the Wai diet but it isn't, leaving it impractical to most people as well as hard to follow through with.
For a long time I thought I didn't need beef/cow organs because I had raw wild caught salmon. However, no matter where I bought it from, it smelled spoiled (hard to miss that foul fish smell) even when bought frozen rapidly if left out or just stored frozen for a while, and generally tasted like crap compared to grass fed raw beef. I'm sure in other parts of the world yadda yadda it's great but in my opinion, fish deteriorate much more rapidly than beef or cow organs.
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Re: Why are fruits so much better than veggies?

Postby Oscar » Tue 04 Dec 2012 21:37

panacea wrote:...the cows are pretty flexible, ...
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Re: Why are fruits so much better than veggies?

Postby RRM » Wed 05 Dec 2012 06:53

panacea wrote:If you guys want to change the wai diet as it is now, you should push for more emphasis on grass-fed raw cow parts (beef, fat, organs).
Pretty much the most ideal food right there.
Raw beef is included, and of course grass-fed is optimal.
in my opinion, fish deteriorate much more rapidly than beef or cow organs.
True.
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Optimal diet

Postby overkees » Thu 10 Jan 2013 09:37

There has been very little research done. If you consider that modern people typically score below 20s CP. Very healthy individuals who do alot of walking score above 30 and breathe through the nose when doing aerobic exercise. But this is, tested this for people in my direct environment, rather an exception than a rule. The healthiest person I met scored a little above 25s CP when done the test correctly.

This is my whole problem with RRM's claims of wai being an 'optimal diet'. Because if you consider better oxygenation, that is higher O2 saturation within the tissue (not the arterial saturation). The body can much more efficiently prevent alot of products that get produced when you chronically hyperventilate, like lactic acid. The body can also, and this is not proven but due to a lot of experiences, make enzymes more efficiently and maybe even make new enzymes than a body can at a lower CP. The problem is, you can't find a prove of this in reports, because there is no research done! That's the whole problem with Buteyko, in the beginning I was very sceptical, but when I started practicing, things started to change rapidly and alot of health indiciators imrpoved.

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