Ray Peat..Haidut..Ede...etc

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Kasper
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Re: Ray Peat..Haidut..Ede...etc

Post by Kasper »

I am trying to untangle the facts and theories in my mind.
Is PUFA dangerous, or is it not?
Is PUFA like CML-AGE?
CML-AGE is surely something very different. What do you mean with dangerous?
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Re: Ray Peat..Haidut..Ede...etc

Post by Novidez »

Damn, my parents are going to bring me some Walnuts this weekend (because, well, it's what parents do), and now, after reading this, I just want to pick the phone and say to them to not bring those nuts at all :(. (And then, they will become sad and call me a weirdo (Y) )

Btw, MUFA are more tolerable on Ray Peat's view?
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Re: Ray Peat..Haidut..Ede...etc

Post by Aytundra »

Kasper wrote:CML-AGE is surely something very different. What do you mean with dangerous?
CML-AGE is not dangerous in RRM's opinion.
PUFA is it dangerous?
Blue-colour-worded-foods is it dangerous? Aytundra thinks so, but that is in Aytundra's universe, she has exception rules on how to deal with words like cucumber and cantaloupe...etc.

Ray Peat proposed the schema that all PUFA foods are bad.
Is that true or false?

For example a child may create a "schema" to define the word "dog":
Child says all 4 legged animals with fur are dogs.
Child sees a 4 legged animal with fur and triangular ears and calls it a dog.
We know that there are cats and dogs.
The child looks again and sees it has long hair as a tail...
We know horses have triangle ears too. It could be a horse.
With more information we can be more precise in defining different words.
Novidez wrote:Damn, my parents are going to bring me some Walnuts this weekend (because, well, it's what parents do), and now, after reading this, I just want to pick the phone and say to them to not bring those nuts at all :(. (And then, they will become sad and call me a weirdo (Y) )
Ha!
I guess you need a nut cracker, to solve your problems.
Novidez wrote:Btw, MUFA are more tolerable on Ray Peat's view?
i don't know,
but afaik...
There are MUFA in Peat Foods.
I will post food table soon with MUFA.
There are also saturated fats in Peat Foods.
I will post food table soon with Saturated fats.
Basically Peat food has all 3 fats, even the PUFA that he hates.
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Re: Ray Peat..Haidut..Ede...etc

Post by Kasper »

Please skip those food tables, they are absolutely useless...

One overview of the percentage of SFA, MUFA, PUFA in different oils/fats will do... If something is low in fat like fruit, of course it will have very little PUFA... And little MUFA and little SFA .... If it is fried in sunflower oil, probably very high in PUFA... Etc. Etc.

You just need to know the percentages of the different oils/fats to deduce this.
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Re: Ray Peat..Haidut..Ede...etc

Post by Kasper »

"Basically Peat food has all 3 fats, even the PUFA that he hates."

Every fatty food has PUFA... What is the point of remarks like this?

Btw, I don't think there exists something like peat food... Where do you get that?
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Re: Ray Peat..Haidut..Ede...etc

Post by Aytundra »

Okay,
The ratio of fatty acids MUFA: PUFA: SFA in percentages are:
beef brain......... 39.68% MUFA, 32.04% PUFA, 37.29% SFA
beef heart......... 29.73% MUFA, 28.97% PUFA, 41.29% SFA
chicken heart..... 30.59% MUFA, 35.01% PUFA, 34.40% SFA
turkey heart...... 31.45% MUFA, 32.89% PUFA, 35.66% SFA
beef liver........... 23.95% MUFA, 21.32% PUFA, 54.73% SFA
chicken liver....... 29.84% MUFA, 26.75% PUFA, 43.41% SFA
turkey liver........ 50.39% MUFA, 11.18% PUFA, 38.43% SFA
beef kidney........ 27.29% MUFA, 31.77% PUFA, 40.94% SFA
- Notice that the organ meats, have a percentage of over 33% in saturated fatty acids (SFA).

- And only turkey liver happens to have MUFA of over 50%; I wonder if that turkey ate more oils before it was slaughter?

To make this more interesting we bring Cholesterol into the ratio, over Cholesterol (g) + Fatty Acids (g) as the base.:
The ratio of MUFA:PUFA:SFA:Cholesterol in percentages are:
calculations.JPG
Numbers were calculated from values obtained from the textbook:
[quote="Citation/Source of Data (Thompson J., Manore M., Sheeshka J. (2007). Nutrition: a functional approach Cdn Edition. "Appendix A Nutrient Values of Foods; 'Values are obtained from the USDA Nutrient Database for Standard Reference, Release 16' " on page: A-A62. ISBN0-321-25294-2)"]
Beef brain, pan fried, 3 oz, 85 g,...................................3.383 g MUFA, 1.964 PUFA, 3.179 SFA, 1696 g Cholesterol

Beef heart, simmered, 3 oz, 85 g, ..................................0.859 g MUFA, 0.837 g PUFA, 1.193 g SFA, 180.2 g Cholesterol
Chicken heart, simmered, 1 cup, chopped or diced, 145 g,..2.914 g MUFA, 3.335 g PUFA, 3.277 g SFA, 350.9 g Cholesterol
Turkey heart, simmered, 21 g, .......................................0.239 g MUFA, 0.25 g PUFA, 0.271 g SFA, 38.64 g Cholesterol

Beef liver, pan fried 1 slice (yield from 112 g raw liver), 81 g,............. 0.529 g MUFA, 0.471 g PUFA, 1.209 g SFA, 308.6 g Cholesterol
Chicken liver, simmered 1 container, (yield from 400 g raw liver), 256 g, 3.625 g MUFA, 3.249 g PUFA, 5.274 g SFA, 1441 g Cholesterol
Turkey liver, simmered, 83 g,...........................................................7.56 g MUFA, 1.678 g PUFA, 5.766 g SFA, 322 g Cholesterol

Beef kidney, simmered, 3 oz, 85 g,.............................................. 0.604 g MUFA, 0.703 g PUFA, 0.906 g SFA, 608.6 g Cholesterol[/quote]
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Re: Ray Peat..Haidut..Ede...etc

Post by Aytundra »

Kasper wrote:One overview of the percentage of SFA, MUFA, PUFA in different oils/fats will do...
All plant oils, fruit, and nuts do not have cholesterol.
So MUFA : PUFA : SFA ratios from these foods should match organ ratios.
And MUFA, PUFA, SFA grams should be proportioned to cholesterol.
Kasper wrote:If something is low in fat like fruit, of course it will have very little PUFA... And little MUFA and little SFA .... If it is fried in sunflower oil, probably very high in PUFA... Etc. Etc.
No, the volume of MUFA, PUFA and SFA over food volume grams, is not going to show us which item is good to eat.
The ratio of MUFA : PUFA : SFA ratio is the key.
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Re: Ray Peat..Haidut..Ede...etc

Post by Aytundra »

Egg Yolk, Fish, Cream, Fruits, Game, Nuts, Oils, Milk
A list of MUFA : PUFA : SFA ratio of fatty acids, in percent out of fatty acids.
MuPuSa Percent Ratio Beef to Fruit.JPG
MuPuSa Percent Ratio Fruit A to Fruit C.JPG
MuPuSa Percent Ratio Fruit C to Fruit P.JPG
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Re: Ray Peat..Haidut..Ede...etc

Post by Aytundra »

MuPuSa Percent Ratio Fruit P to Nut W.JPG
MuPuSa Percent Ratio Nut W to Oil to Milk.JPG
I highlighted foods with SFA over 33%.
Ray Peat wants you to eat foods with more SFA, he frowns upon UFA, so salmon and avocado did not make it to his food list.

But Ray Peat has a problem, he is assuming people are high in UFA based on the assumption of most people eating oily foods with lots of plant oil (except coconut) ...etc.

Milk, butter, and cream products higher in SFA than PUFA and MUFA, is that not more SFA than needed?
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Re: Ray Peat..Haidut..Ede...etc

Post by RRM »

Aytundra wrote: Milk, butter, and cream products higher in SFA than PUFA and MUFA, is that not more SFA than needed?
Well, it is energy, so that totally depends on your energy requirements and your total energy intake.
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Re: Ray Peat..Haidut..Ede...etc

Post by Aytundra »

RRM wrote:Well, it is energy, so that totally depends on your energy requirements and your total energy intake.
Then PUFA rich foods are also energy.
Then MUFA rich foods are also energy.
Similar to SFA rich foods are also energy.
So it does not matter, in the moment you need energy... "Does that mean any any type of fat are good to eat?".


Do you think Ray Peat is wrong to eliminate PUFA?
PUFA and MUFA foods are safe to eat when one needs energy?
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Re: Ray Peat..Haidut..Ede...etc

Post by RRM »

Aytundra wrote:Do you think Ray Peat is wrong to eliminate PUFA?
Yes. Essential fatty acid interactions are crucial to regulation of various bodyfunctions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential ... teractions
PUFA and MUFA foods are safe to eat when one needs energy?
Sure. Just do not regularly consume foods such as linseed oil, which are too high in LNA.
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Re: Ray Peat..Haidut..Ede...etc

Post by Aytundra »

Kasper wrote:I think 2 gram of omega-6 and 2 gram of omega-3 should be more than enough to make sure you are able to make this prostaglandins
I am working on Question C) now, to determine the Omega 6 to Omega 3 ratio.

Sneak Peek
This is what I am working on.
I am so happy I remembered there is that French Food Composition Table that lists specific fats.
https://pro.anses.fr/TableCIQUAL/index.htm
I just took the 18:2 (n-6) and 18:3 (n-3) and made the ratio n-6:n-3. Is that the correct way to get the Omega 6 to Omega 3 ratio?
RRM wrote:Sure. Just do not regularly consume foods such as linseed oil, which are too high in LNA.
Is that the LNA you are referring to, "18:2 (n-6)" ?
MuPuSa Omega3, 6 ratio Nut Oil Seed data from Ciqual French Food Composition table 2013.JPG
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Re: Ray Peat..Haidut..Ede...etc

Post by RRM »

Aytundra wrote:Is that the LNA you are referring to, "18:2 (n-6)" ?
Im sorry, i should have been more specific.
18:2 (N-6) is linoleic acid (LA).
LNA may be the abbreviation of the linolenic acids; alpha (18:3 N-3), gamma (18:3 N-6), or both (18:3 undifferentiated)
I was specifically referring to α-Linolenic acid (LNA / ALNA).
Total fat in seeds such as flaxseed and chia seeds consists of more than 50% ALNA / LNA, which is too much.
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Re: Ray Peat..Haidut..Ede...etc

Post by Aytundra »

Kasper wrote:
Aytundra wrote:Ray Peat's theory thinks that it is healthy (life-protecting-behaviour) to eat zero PUFA.
Why do you believe that Kasper? (And why do so many other people {at least on the Peat Forum} believe that?)
I think there is not done enough studies about 0 gram PUFA in humans.
If there are benefits of PUFA, I think you need only a little bit of it.
I think 2 gram of omega-6 and 2 gram of omega-3 should be more than enough to make sure you are able to make this prostaglandins.

Of which 2 grams of Omega-6 and 2 grams of Omega-3 are you talking about?
Are you talking about the undifferentiated-Omega-6? and undifferentiated-Omega-3?

Kasper wrote: PUFA is highly unstable. PUFA increases AGE formation. I think there is no reason to give your body the burden of more PUFA.
I think in many people, and many diseases there is too much inflammation. This inflammation is coming from PUFA metabolites. So I think it is reasonable to suggest that making sure you have little PUFA intake, may give people in disease a more healthy inflammation response. People that die from a fever, don't die from the virus, but from the inflammation response for example. Maybe if they would have less PUFA in their tissues, they would not die?
Yes, I think the inflammation response is the likely factor that people die from, not the virus itself.
But, I have not really decided if PUFA plays a real role in that inflammation response.
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