Wai baby 2

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Re: Wai baby 2

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Please use the sieve, even for OJ.
Antibiotics, while not sure its a (any?) bacteria?
Man, sometimes they come across as a bunch of people with autism.
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Mia
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Re: Wai baby 2

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I will try to find something to sieve the juice with tomorrow.
Yes, about the antibiotics, it feels a little strange.
But her fever is going down... i hope for the best.
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Re: Wai baby 2

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Perfect.
Maybe they guessed right, and it was a bacteria.
Maybe it was her own defense that got the upperhand.
We will never know.
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Re: Wai baby 2

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An update about my daughter...

Since last spring when she was in hospital for 8 days the doctor wants regulary check ups of her values. Since i told the hospital dietist what my daughter eats, its been quite difficult. Not that they try to make me change her diet to standard diet. But they dont understand why i do this. They have never heard of anything like this.

They have tested her kalcium, cholesterol, iron and more. They are really concerned about her strange eating habits, and low calcium - high cholesterol intake. Everytime they see her they keep saying how healthy she looks. And every test they have done has been in the normal range. Her weight and lenght is in the normal range (but on the low side).

A few weeks ago i got a call from her doctor who said that my daughters iron level was on the low side. It was 105 if i remember correctly. She wants me to give her iron supplements. And soya yoghurt for extra calcium. I dont understand why. There is nothing wrong with her calcium levels?!?

The only problem my daughter have is bloated stomach, sometimes extreamly bloated with pain and fever. Not so often anymore, but it happens. Maybe that is the main reason why they dont let us go...

What do you think about this. I am happy to hear some thaughts and advice.

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Re: Wai baby 2

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Mia wrote:And every test they have done has been in the normal range. Her weight and lenght is in the normal range (but on the low side).
...
A few weeks ago i got a call from her doctor who said that my daughters iron level was on the low side.
On the low side, but in the normal range?
It was 105 if i remember correctly
could you please ask for the exact level to be sure?
She wants me to give her iron supplements.
Egg yolks are the best source,
but if she is in the normal range, there is no need to increase the iron.
The body choses to lower iron in specific conditions. (iron is pro-oxidative)
And soya yoghurt for extra calcium. I dont understand why. There is nothing wrong with her calcium levels?!?
Think simplicity:
Low intake needs to be increased (disregarding that the direct outcome is already there: adequate levels).
The dogma is that that high intakes are protective later in life (which has been proven to be false),
so that's why they disregard the fact that her calcium levels are adequate.
The only problem my daughter have is bloated stomach, sometimes extreamly bloated with pain and fever. Not so often anymore, but it happens.
What correlations did you find?
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Re: Wai baby 2

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Oh, that is a little confusing... Sorry about that.

(Its really difficult to express my self when i write in english. I have no control over how people "see" me because i have no control of how i write... And i dont really like that. Hmm, i hope you know what i mean...?)

They never said anything about her iron level or suggested supplements before. So i just assumed it was in the normal range. But when the doctor called she said it was on its way up, so actually it must have been even lower before... I am pretty sure she said it was 105.

I already give her 3yolks/day. Can i increase that?

Bananas, juiced alone or combined with other fruits - especially juiced and combined with orange juice is not god for her. Every time i try that combo shes sick after 2-3 days. Pain, bloating, and sometimes fever. (If fever she lies in the sofa complains about stomach ache an refuses to move for a few days) Also melon juice make her stomach really big and bloated but no pain. We are trying clementine juice alone (with sugar and oil) now and it is working really well.

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Re: Wai baby 2

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Mia wrote:Oh, that is a little confusing... Sorry about that.
Communicating this way always is...
Its really difficult to express my self when i write in english. I have no control over how people "see" me because i have no control of how i write... And i dont really like that. Hmm, i hope you know what i mean...?
I understand what you mean.
You perfectly express yourself in English,
but when you speak with somebody face to face,
you continuously adjust your communications in such a way that the other person understands you better.
You can see on her/his her face and body language whether you (s)he understands,
what part you need to elaborate on, etc etc.
So, yes, of course communicating this way (without direct interaction) leads to much more confusion
and if
I am pretty sure she said it was 105.
Actually, for iron, the normal reference range for children is 50 to 120 μg/dL
So, for your daughter 105 is not low, at all...
Maybe your MD had the reference range for newborns in mind? (100 to 250)
Serum values may be very confusing, as one may be iron deficient while having perfectly normal iron levels in the case of inflammations, for example.

Of all the iron in the human body (4 - 5 grams), about half is contained in hemoglobin (for oxygen transport).
About 2 grams are contained in compounds in all cells, and particularly in liver cells ('spare iron'), and bone marrow and spleen.
Iron uptake is basically the only way to regulate serum iron levels, as virtually the only way to get rid of iron,
is by sweating, shedding skin and mucosal cells (1 to 2 mg / day), since we have no means of excreting iron.
Hence on average only 15 to 35% of dietary iron (from animal food) is absorbed.
The more iron in the blood, the more susceptible to bacterial infection (bacteria need iron).
The higher the level of iron, the greater its pro-oxidative effect, causing damage to DNA, proteins, fats and all kinds of cellular components.
(in Alzheimers and Parkinsons, iron accumulates in the brain,
and if the body cannot adequately lower the iron absorption rate, it leads to disease, or even death.)
Supplementary iron may therefore be dangerous.
Excess calcium, magnesium and zinc diminishes dietary iron uptake.
Vitamin C increases iron uptake. So that if (on this diet) your iron intake is substantial (3 egg yolks for a kid),
a relatively low level of iron in the blood is highly likely to be intentional, regulated by the iron uptake ratio.
Lowering iron levels even below that level is for example crucial in fighting bacterial infections (and malaria, for example).
I already give her 3yolks/day. Can i increase that?
No need; her iron level is perfect.
Bananas, juiced alone or combined with other fruits - especially juiced and combined with orange juice is not god for her.
Its probably the starch.
Did you try over-ripe bananas (bananas that got soft and brownish)?
Also melon juice make her stomach really big and bloated but no pain.
I don't know the reason for that...
Its probably a specific anti-nutrient that she doesn't tolerate.
As there are very different kinds of melon, you may try different ones.
My son thrives on banana-mango, which is basically the only juice he really loves a lot.
But mango makes my daughter bloated and gassy, so she prefers banana-orange.
She doesn't like melon juice.
We are trying clementine juice alone (with sugar and oil) now and it is working really well.
Ah, that's really wonderful, because clementines have a good nutrient make up.
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Re: Wai baby 2

Post by Mia »

Thank you RRM.

Ok, I dont have to worry about her iron level then.
We are going back to the hospital next spring for new tests.
I will ask the MD then about the iron, and why she said that 105 was to low.

Actually the MD said the tests did show sign of inflammation in my daughters intestines... i dont know the reason for that, and the MD did not know.

I have tried both "normal" and over-ripe bananas. Over-ripe works better but still not good. (it takes a few days longer before she gets pain) So we leave them out for now, and also the melons. Since we started the clementine juice everything is getting better. Her stomach is still a bit bloated, but much softer and no pain at all. Her energy and mood is also better. Not that it was bad before, but i see a difference.
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Re: Wai baby 2

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Mia wrote:I will ask the MD then about the iron, and why she said that 105 was to low.
Maybe she is using a different unit,
so ask her what units the 105 is in.
Maybe she does not mean total serum iron.
Only if she means ferritin (an iron-storing protein), and the unit is not ng/ml but pmol/L, then 105 is low (though not too low).

But suppose the 105 is in a different unit (that im unaware of), and the iron level IS low,
then this may be the result of her intestinal inflammation (body reduces iron levels to fight the inflammation.
Then it would be very unwise to force up her iron level, as that would hinder her body to fight the inflammation.
the tests did show sign of inflammation in my daughters intestines... i dont know the reason for that, and the MD did not know.
Probably a food intolerance; connected to the issue with bananas and melons.

- Its not the free fructose / glucose ratio, which is the same in melons and clementines,
and even 'better' in bananas.

- If it is the insoluble fiber (1.2 g in banana), she should also react adversely to avocado (3.8 g) and kiwi (1.5 g). Does she?
But if that IS the case, she may have multiple intolerancies, as melons are relatively low in insoluble fiber (0.5 g).
Maybe 0.5 g is already too much though.
How does she respond to watermelon juice? (0.2 g)

- If it is the pectin (600 mg in banana), she should also react adversely to kiwi (740 mg) and apricot (940 mg)
But if that IS the case, she may have multiple intolerancies, as melons are relatively low in pectin (300 mg).
Though maybe 300 mg of pectin is already too much.
How does she respond to sweet cherries? (360 mg) and peach? (540 mg)
and how does she respond to watermelon juice? (only 95 mg pectin, and watermelons yield a lot of juice)

- Starch is abundantly (for a fruit) present in bananas (2.8 g), but not in melons (and only traces in apricot),
similar to cellulose (370 mg in banana). If she does not tolerate cellulose, she will also not tolerate guava nor durian (1400 mg each). Does she?

- If it is the purines (57 mg in banana), she should also adversely respond to salmon (170 mg), tuna (257 mg), herring (210 mg) and mackerel (145 mg). Does she eat fish?
and how does she respond to kiwi (only 19 mg), apple juice (14 mg) and pear juice? (12 mg)

- maybe it is the lignin in banana (270 mg). How does she respond to apple juice (only 10 mg),
and how does she respond to pear juice? (even more lignin than banana: 450 mg)
Since we started the clementine juice everything is getting better. Her stomach is still a bit bloated, but much softer and no pain at all.
Also sieve the juice (with a strainer), because she may have issues with specific fibers.
Please let us know if that works.
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Re: Wai baby 2

Post by Mia »

They will test her iron level again in january. (but we are meeting the MD in march)
I am a little nervous about that meeting.
So thank you very much for your support, it helps me.

- My daughter loves avocado. She would easily eat one/day if I let her. But im a bit worried about to much fiber so she cant have it so often.
I dont think her stomach tolerates it perfectly, but it does not give her pain. She dont like kiwi, even if its super ripe she only eat a small amount or none at all. Watermelon juice never give her pain, but really bloated stomach. After a few days on watermelon juice she gets caugh, every time. (It happens with all kind of melon juice, but watermelon is worst). The times when she has thrown up its mostly after watermelon juice combined with other juice, especially after watermelon-banana. But also watermelon-pineapple, banana-something else, or after eating avocado.

- She rarely eats apricots or cherries, the few times we tried she dont want it. She loves peaches, but not taisted it so often because its very expensive and only available in the summer.

- Guava or durian i have no idea, we never tried it.

- Yes, she eats fish. Salmon - without problem, herring - she does not want anymore. Mackerel and tuna - we never tried.

- Apple juice is ok, but i have not tried long enough because its so low in nutrition. Im afraid she will miss some nutrients.
Have not tried pear juice enough to know how she reacts.
The few times i have tried she gets bloated, but i dont now if it would go away after a few days/weeks.

- Yes, i sieve her clementine juice with a strainer.

I have been thinking that (apart from starch in banana) free fructose could be the problem, because the negative reaction to watermelon juice, but maybe its something else.

Maybe apple or pear juice is an option?
Is it okey for her to drink only apple juice or pear juice (+fish, meat, eggs, sugar and oil) on this diet?
Im just curious, because right now clementine juice is working.
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Re: Wai baby 2

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Mia wrote:They will test her iron level again in january. (but we are meeting the MD in march)
I am a little nervous about that meeting.
Write down the reference range for total serum iron (bound to transferrin) for children (50 to 120 μg/dL = 9 to 21 μmol/L) and take it with you,
so that when they show you the results, you know for sure what that result actually says.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serum_iron
(reference range for newborns is 100 to 250 μg/dL)

Reference range for ferritin in females is 12 to 150 ng/mL or μg/L
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ration.png
- My daughter loves avocado. She would easily eat one/day if I let her. But im a bit worried about to much fiber so she cant have it so often.
Simply use the Versapers!
Then she will have her own 'guacamole', low in fiber.
Yes, she eats fish. Salmon - without problem, herring - she does not want anymore.

Ha ha, exactly the same as my daughter.
Initially she did eat herring, but not any more.
She still loves salmon, and doesn't like tuna, but does like mackerel.
Maybe apple or pear juice is an option?
Is it okey for her to drink only apple juice or pear juice (+fish, meat, eggs, sugar and oil) on this diet?
Im just curious, because right now clementine juice is working.
No, apple and pear juice are too low in nutrients, indeed.

What we know so far:
- Its not the free fructose / glucose ratio
- its not purines
- if you could test pear juice, and she doesn't react to it, its also not lignins.
Mia wrote:- Apple juice is ok, ...
I have been thinking that (apart from starch in banana) free fructose could be the problem, because the negative reaction to watermelon juice
I don't think its the free glucose, as apple juice is ok for her.
Here is a list of free fructose in fruits (as % of total carbs, and as % of total carbs, protein and fat)
see the bottom of that first post.
http://www.waitalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2278
As you can see, free fructose in apple is 50%, as compared to watermelon 47%.
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Re: Wai baby 2

Post by Mia »

Yes you are right, maybe it's not the free fructose.
I will test pear juice, but we are are going away visiting family over Christmas so I will wait until after Christmas to do that test.
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Re: Wai baby 2

Post by Mia »

I have not tried pear juice yet, because It's been working so well with clementine juice... (and I did not want to ruin that)

...until last week. Thursday night she got high fever, stomach ache and started throwing up again. Today is the first day she's not complained about stomach ache. She is still very tired though.

The only thing I can think of that I have done different is that I about two weeks ago started to make her clementine juice in the versapers (sieved after). I've used the citrus juicer (sieved after) before.

I don't know if it has anything to do with it. But when I think back... Her extremely bloated stomach came after I bought that machine.. Before that it was more of a constipation problem? (maybe from berries, yoghurt, and/or what I thought back then - orange juice)

Does this make any sense to you??
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Re: Wai baby 2

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Mia wrote:Thursday night she got high fever, stomach ache and started throwing up again. Today is the first day she's not complained about stomach ache. She is still very tired though.
...
Her extremely bloated stomach came after I bought that machine.. Before that it was more of a constipation problem? (maybe from berries, yoghurt, and/or what I thought back then - orange juice)
...
Does this make any sense to you??
Honestly, it does not make any sense to me.
I think it was just a flue that infects the stomach and/or intestines.
That's the most probable cause; and it happens. Its normal.
Also the time span is normal (a few days up to a week).
I think that the coincidence with you having bought a Versapers is just that: a coincidence,
as there is no sound/logical correlation.
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Re: Wai baby 2

Post by Mia »

Thank you for your answer!
Yes, you are probably right, there is no logical correlation.

But I am I'm going back to the citrus juicer anyway. It's easier because I don't have to peel the clementines or take out the seeds. :-)
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