Kasper's thoughts

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dime
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Re: Kasper's thoughts

Post by dime »

You can only say that once we ask them to measure their CP.
Just because you mouth breathe doesn't mean anything. At intensities close to your absolute limit you need all the oxygen you can get and CO2 is generated incredibly fast. But that doesn't mean that they can't go a bit slower with nose breathing only.
Ventilation, the movement of air in and out of the lungs, increases linearly at slow running speeds but increases exponentially at faster speeds, when there is an increased need to eliminate the metabolic production of carbon dioxide.
These athletes have huge capacity for oxygen, imagine biking at your absolute limit constantly for 150km for example. I'm pretty sure that any of the elite athletes could easily hold their breath without getting any urge to breath for 1-2 minutes when at rest.

I agree with the "go to sleep when you feel asleep", that's what I try to do and I sleep 7-8 hours without alarms.
overkees
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Re: Kasper's thoughts

Post by overkees »

Well, thats exactly what's happening: they are very close to their limit. The body goes into overdrive and needs to recover. Just search on marathon and you will see recovery schedules. Now some of these taramuharan people run a marathon everyday, only with a much lower intensity. They don't need recovery schedues...

Look, if you breathe with your nose only, you can't get your heart rate above something like 160 - 180. I tried it several times, with heartbeat measure devices while running. If I open my mouth I can easily go to 200 heartbeats. You enter the anaerobic face, note the word anaerobic, and you damage your body. There have been a lot of researches that people doing marathons die easier of heartattacks and such. You need to lighten up your intensity instead of going near to your limit.

Also, almost everybody I know who runs alot, always has some kind of interval training once a week. Now, when I was still swimming daily I noticed that everytime I did an interval training, my CP would DROP to below 30 for that whole day. Where I was almost normally always around 35, just like I am now. This tells me enough. So I never am going to do interval ever again.
dime
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Re: Kasper's thoughts

Post by dime »

But then once you recover, you come back stronger and with better CP than you previously had, is my understanding :)
Otherwise how would bodybuilding, powerlifting, etc. work, lifting weights is pretty much always anaeoribc.
It's well known that after much exercise your immune system (and not the only) goes down so that priority is on recovery and "upgrade", so you're advised to be more careful as it's easier to get sick.

But are you saying that just by opening your mouth, while keeping the same intensity your heart rate goes up?? Or that as you increase the intensity you have to open your mouth?
What I have noticed is, as I start going to the limit (i.e. sprint) and keep at it for 1-2 or more minutes my heart and breathing is generally still going easy; as I start slowing down or reaching some limit I can feel my heart rate and breathing increasing a lot, which I suppose is necessary to clear up accumulated byproducts from anaerobic oxidation.

Anyway, whether you need much recovery or not is very much irrelevant as this takes a short period of time and then you're back at normal. These athletes surely take some vacations, would be interesting to know how much they sleep then. My guess is still 7-8 hours otherwise we would've heard, that Michael Phelps or Lance Armstrong, or whoever else only sleep 3 hours for example ;)
overkees
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Re: Kasper's thoughts

Post by overkees »

It all comes down to the fact that you need to spend +1 hour a day (2 is even better) of low intensity, aerobic excercise, to get comfortable with high CO2 levels. During anaerobic training you will get such a high level that it gets toxic, so it needs to be released as fast as possible. Therefore you only have a peak in your CO2 for a very short amount of time, never enough for your body to get the benefits.
Also probably the gasses need to be in a very strict ratio, due to the bohr effect and such, therefore mouth breathing is a flight or fight response and only works for the moment, definately not for the long run!

Oh and by the way, you never commented on the focal infection theory I posted above, alot of athlete's probably have these things that prevents them for going above +40 MCP, what is needed for sleeping less than 8 hours a day..There will always be heavy breathing in your sleep if you don't solve these issues.
dime
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Re: Kasper's thoughts

Post by dime »

I agree that spending more time doing lower intensity exercise is probably better for overal health, than high intensity for a short time; walking all day long is probably the best thing you can do. Most shepherds I know stay in great health into their 80-90s and still walk around all day with their sheep or cows. Moderation is always better than extremes.
It's just that we don't have so much time to spend 1-2 or more hours every day. And so my impression was that shorter, e.g. 10-20 minutes, but with accordingly higher intensity exercise (not killing yourself of course) will give you roughly similar benefits.

I've never heard about this focal infection theory, do you mean that some small infection from injury or similar has great effect on pretty much the whole body? Won't this have big impact on their performance too?

I'm trying to understand, how does exercise lead to increasing your CP? Is it by increasing your tolerance to CO2, or rather by increasing your efficiency at using up O2? I remember having this dicussion with panacea once..
Kasper
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Re: Kasper's thoughts

Post by Kasper »

you need extra vitamin E for hairloss
I actually don't take extra vitamin E. My hair improved since I use red palm oil (as food) daily. But my hair is quite stable already for a year.
Vitamin E intake is the RDA.
boron for fluoride toxicity, melatonin to sleep
I don't use it anymore. I did for half a year, but I think my fluoride is gone. I don't have any sleep problems anymore, I sleep in within 15 min. every time !
astaxanthin for muscle aches
Yeah, well it works. I see it as a bonus. Why shouldn't I use it? It's exactly the same thing as in wild salmon/organic salmon.
Immunocal for bipolar disorder and for increasing glutathion
I only use immunocal when I don't eat raw protein. For example, raw egg yolks and immunocal gibe me both positive results.
Or better: what causes your body to be imbalanced so much?
I think it's because of my gut flora.
The only way it makes sense to me.
My mother gut flora isn't good as well.
I think it got worse, by eating very bad food in highschool.
And completely damaged when I used Isotretinoin for 7 months (for acne).

I think the gut and psychology syndrome model as proposed my Nastasha Campbell-McBride fits my case very well.
Because of my gut flora, my body cannot tolerate heavy metals/toxic substances etc. as well as healthy people.
Therefore, my body has become more toxic loaded during the years.
Therefore, vitamin A and glutathione (for example) are needed more than in healthy people.

Because of my gut flora, it cannot absorb vitamin/minerals as good as healthy people.
Therefore, zinc/magnesium give me this positive results.

The gut flora produces biotin, many B vitamins, K2.
If one has acne, one might think that it was caused by a lack of vitamin B5, as pharmaceutical dosages B5 can eliminate acne.
In practise, acne is not caused by a diet low in B5.
And, i think not one of your conditions is caused by a lack of a specific nutrient.
Well, it's interesting, as you always come with the, "you are focusing on the symptoms" story, but I think you know, that I am not like that.
I'm trying found out what is really causing my problems, for the last 3 years. And I feel like getting and closer and closer to the answers.

But, in some way, you could even see eating a very healthy diet as "focussing on symptoms".
When I started eating 100% Wai I began feeling better than I've ever felt, but that are just symptoms.
When I went on holiday (2011), where I couldn't eat 100% Wai, I felt like nothing was really changed.
All my old symptoms came back.

This summer, I had to quit my diet as well.
But this time, I really felt that my body was better able to handle those food.
And I really eat all the things, grains, milk, you name it.
Grains had the worst impact, but still, it wasn't that bad.

After 2 weeks, some old symptoms came back, but nothing like summer 2011, were I felt tired, sleeping like a maniac, brain fog etc.
So this tells me, my body is now really getting stronger.
100% Wai is wonderful, but I see it as the end stage, to keep healthy, but not as something that can cures everything as long as you eat it long enough.

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RRM
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Re: Kasper's thoughts

Post by RRM »

Kasper, you reply to my post starts a bit weird,
so im suspecting some of it got lost during posting?
(no quote=rrm and also no reply regarding cortisol, xylitol and Ritalin)

My point is that if one takes a look at everything you are using,
one would have to be surprised if you have no adverse effects from these at all.
There are many people like you, who start with taking something,
and end up taking all kind of stuff (usually prescription drugs) because everything they take,
has some side effects, which needs to be counteracted by yet another supplement/drug.
Many of such people benefit from taking no more drugs whatsoever for a couple of months,
just to establish whats really going on. (staying on the diet though...)
You ever considered doing that?
Kasper
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Re: Kasper's thoughts

Post by Kasper »

Besides zinc to improve your posture, you need extra vitamin E for hairloss, you need to lower mast cell chymase release, more omega 3, less omega 6, biokult probiotics for candida and ADD, more biotin for candida, more vitamin B6 to increase IL-2 production, more cortisol and vitamin A for detoxing, boron for fluoride toxicity, extra magnesium to relax your muscles, more vitamin D, xylitol for tongue-coating, sea salt and xylitol for red eyes, astaxanthin for muscle aches, Immunocal for bipolar disorder and for increasing glutathion, melatonin to sleep, Ritalin to feel good...
My point is that if one takes a look at everything you are using,
one would have to be surprised if you have no adverse effects from these at all.
If I get adverse effects from magnesium, I should get adverse effects from fruit high in magnesium.
If I get adverse effects from zinc, I should get adverse effects from eating a lot of beef/lamb.
If I get adverse from astaxathine, I should get adverse effects from salmon.
Do you think I get adverse effects from having a natural omega balance ?
Do you think I get adverse effects from using red palm oil ?
Bio-kult doesn't give me die-off reactions anymore. It only helps to get my gut flora back in balance.
(no quote=rrm and also no reply regarding cortisol, xylitol and Ritalin)
I cannot imagine that using a xylitol mouthwash (xylitol is also found fruit) gives real adverse effects.
I don't use cortisol, and I do use ritalin, but only ocassionaly in the morning. When my CP gets over 40s it gives me real bad headaches.

The idea is that in the end, I don't need any supplementation anymore.
But in the meantime, it speeds up progress in my experience and in the opinion of Natasha Campbell-McBride.
Magnesium/zinc/bio-kult/omega/vitamin D is all part of the gaps protocol.
Xylitol/astaxanthine are recommended by normalbreating.com btw.
Many of such people benefit from taking no more drugs whatsoever for a couple of months,
just to establish whats really going on. (staying on the diet though...)
You ever considered doing that?
I don't consider it as drugs (except ritalin). With drugs those side effects are known.
The things I take in the amount I take them don't have known adverse effects.
I don't experience adverse effects. I experience getting more and more healthy over the years.
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RRM
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Re: Kasper's thoughts

Post by RRM »

Kasper wrote: If I get adverse effects from magnesium, I should get adverse effects from fruit high in magnesium.
If I get adverse effects from zinc, I should get adverse effects from eating a lot of beef/lamb.
If I get adverse from astaxathine, I should get adverse effects from salmon.
Bio-kult doesn't give me die-off reactions anymore.
The fact is that you are taking supplements.
You dont just eat a healthy diet, no you also supplement.
Supplementing may imbalance your body, possibly causing adverse effects.
The idea is that in the end, I don't need any supplementation anymore.
But in the meantime, it speeds up progress
In the meantime it may be causing some of the negative health effects that you experience.
Your supplements may be the very cause of some of the things you take them for.
I don't consider it as drugs (except ritalin).
Supplements either have effects, or not.
If they have effects, these effects may be negative,
depending on what your actual needs and levels are.
I don't experience adverse effects.
If you dont experience adverse effects,
why do you take supplements?
I experience getting more and more healthy over the years.
So why do you (still) have so many issues?
Kasper
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Re: Kasper's thoughts

Post by Kasper »

The fact is that you are taking supplements.
You dont just eat a healthy diet, no you also supplement.
Supplementing may imbalance your body, possibly causing adverse effects.
To me it sounds dogmatic the way you think about supplements.
You almost act like taking supplements is a sin.

Of course, it may imbalance my body, but the wai diet may also imbalance my body as well.
We can speculate for hours of what may imbalance me.
The fact I don't believe in god may imbalance me.
Orange juice may imbalance me because of the salicylates.
Olive oil may imbalance me because of oleocanthal.
Oh and there may be an not yet investigated molecule in bananas that imbalance me...

In that sense, there is no difference between food and supplements, they both may imbalance a person.
And they both may improve health.

The point is that I see more reasons to believe it's improving my health, than the other way around.
If you dont experience adverse effects,
why do you take supplements?
Because I experience adverse effects when I don't take them...
I experience getting more and more healthy over the years.
So why do you (still) have so many issues?
I tried to explain you. Gut flora. It's getting better, but it's still not perfect.
If want to learn more about it, read: Gut and Psychology Syndrome from Nastasha Campbell-McBride.
panacea
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Re: Kasper's thoughts

Post by panacea »

I have read GAPS by Natasha Campbell-McBride, and she says in her book repeatedly to keep supplements to an absolute minimum. Many of the supplements she recommends are for special cases only, such as autistic children.

If you are eating 100% wai for over 3 weeks at a time, then how in the world do you still have gut flora problems!?
I didn't read this whole thread, but if you haven't yet, please tell us your diet, because that is going to show what is going on a lot more than knowing the supplements you're taking.

I have gut flora problems still, but I know for 100% certain that it's because my diet is absolutely horrible. I'm still battling with getting on wai 100% and no matter how many supplements I take, I've realized it won't fix the underlying gut flora problem! My guess is that you are partially in the same boat, otherwise you would have normalized your gut by now.

Your interpretation of the GAPS book is flawed, in my respectful opinion. You seem to take the stance that because your gut flora is in bad shape, and you have toxins accumulated in your body, that you can jump right in to correcting this with supplements. That's not right at all! If the supplements ever are going to help you, you need to normalize your gut FIRST so that your complex detoxification system in your body will start working properly and can utilize the ingredients in foods and/or supplements to remove toxins AFTER. That is exactly what Natasha says in her book when she talks about the detoxification system of the human body.

Furthermore, foods and supplements are comprised of basically the same ingredients, the problem is that 99.999% of the foods we can select from today are bad for us, and 99.999% of the supplements we can select from today are bad or useless for us. We have a lot of evidence, logic, reasoning, and testing at our disposal concerning which foods are good (such as free range raw egg yolks with no sac and egg white). We do NOT have a lot of evidence, logic, reasoning, and testing concerining which of the 0.001% of supplements are good for us! You are most likely choosing information from 1-3 shallow sources over which supplements have 'beneficial' effects and ignoring the fact that ingredients change behavior when they are isolated and have many different forms. Amino acids taken by themselves are not necessarily the same as amino acids in raw egg yolks. They are subjected to the elements - or protected from them by artificial means, which could be unhealthy, etc. There are fillers, dyes, etc in supplements. Sometimes supplements give you way too much of one ingredient, too little of another. The point is that there is no reason to supplement anyway, the goal here is to normalize your gut flora not normalize your mineral levels. Your mineral, or vitamin, or any other thing in your body will normalize after correct diet normalizes the gut flora and the rest of the body. That is what Natasha was saying and that's what Wai basically says.
Kasper
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Re: Kasper's thoughts

Post by Kasper »

Your interpretation of the GAPS book is flawed, in my respectful opinion. You seem to take the stance that because your gut flora is in bad shape, and you have toxins accumulated in your body, that you can jump right in to correcting this with supplements. That's not right at all! If the supplements ever are going to help you, you need to normalize your gut FIRST so that your complex detoxification system in your body will start working properly and can utilize the ingredients in foods and/or supplements to remove toxins AFTER. That is exactly what Natasha says in her book when she talks about the detoxification system of the human body.
On the website:
The essential supplements for GAPS patients:
A. An effective therapeutic strength probiotic (bio-kult)
B. Essential Fatty Acids (fish oil)
C. Vitamin A (cod liver oil)
D. Digestive enzymes
E. Vitamin and mineral supplements.


Summary of page 238,239:
Supplements are essential in this stage in the programme, as they will allow the immune system and the brain to start functioning on a more or less normal platform.
...
Let us discuss the supplements which I believe to be essential.

1. Full blend of free-form amino acids 15-20 gram (I use egg yolks, and occasionally immunocal)
2. Zinc picolinate 45-50 mg (i use 10-20 mg zinc picolinate)
3. Three more amino acids: tryptophan, glutamine, and asparagine (I don't use them)
Supporting nutrients in standard daily doses, these nutrients act as co-factors for amino acids and zinc.
4. full vitamin B blend (I use egg yolks, and occasional liver)
5. vitamin C (I don't take extra vitamin C)
6. calcium ( I don't take extra calcium)
7. magnesium (I do take 200 mg extra)
8. iron (I don't take this one)
9. iodine (I do take this one) (oh no, what did I say, no RRM can at another one to the list ... :o )
....
-Continue with all the supplements until the end of the GAPS Introduction Diet. When your patient is on the Full GAPS Diet, slowly reduce the dose of the full blend of amino acids to 1-2gram per day, and gradually reduce zinc supplements to 10-15 mg per day. Continue with the three amino acids and the supporting nutrients for another 3-4 months at the same doses.
- As your patients recover you will be able to slowly remove most supplements, apart from cod liver oil and probiotics, which should be taken for a few years.


At page 297:
Another important point we have to consider when it comes to our GAPS patient is their digestive system is inflamed and damaged. A lot of synthetic supplements, fillers and binders in tables and capsules will aggravate and irritate already sensitive GAPS gut lining and interfere with the healing process. I have seen many patients who put a lot of effort into implementing the diet, but did not achieve the best results until they removed most of their supplements.
That is why I normally do not recommend any vita,in or mineral supplementation at the beginning of the program. I recommend putting most effort into implementing the diet first and starting the healing process in the gut. Once the digestive system starts working properly in many patients their nutritional deficiencies disappear without any supplementation. They disappear the natural way through the body sorting it out for itself.
Of course, all patients are different and some them require targeted supplementation. But that is the matter of qualified practioner to decide. Here are some important points to keep in mind.
- Choose supplements without any ingredients which may aggravate the gut condition. Supplements in liquid form are better than in powder, tablet or capsule. Substances which are not allowed on the diet should also be out. (I always remove capsule, and most of my sups are in oil or liquid form.)
- Choose supplements with high absorption rate, for example, vitamin and minerals with added fulvic acid. Fulvic acid (not to be confused with folic acid) is produced by bacteria in soil. It can ensure a very high absorption rate for a supplement the natural way. It also has good chealting properties for heavy metals. Soil bacteria in your probiotic will provide your gut with this acid.
- Keep supplements to an absolute miminum!


I think there is nothing wrong with my interpretation of this.
I choose supplements without any ingredients that aggravate the gut condition.
Notice that many supplements she recommends I'm not taking.
Why ? Because she says to keep supplements to an absolute minimum. I only take those supplements which I notice to improve my condition.
If you are eating 100% wai for over 3 weeks at a time, then how in the world do you still have gut flora problems!?
I didn't read this whole thread, but if you haven't yet, please tell us your diet, because that is going to show what is going on a lot more than knowing the supplements you're taking.
For most people, the (standard) Wai DIet doesn't cure gut flora problems at all.
This is because it contains much and much to much sugar (sucrose,glucose and fructose).
Even on the gaps diet you don't cure it in 3 weeks. For many people it takes months if not years to complete restore it.
I didn't read this whole thread, but if you haven't yet, please tell us your diet, because that is going to show what is going on a lot more than knowing the supplements you're taking.
My diet is basically what is know in GAPS as the Full GAPS diet. To speed up progress it's recommended to do the Introduction diet first, but I didn't do it (yet).
Foods I regularly consume:
- 6-10 egg yolks daily
- Coconut oil, palm oil, fermented cold liver oil, grass-fed butter
- berries
- wild african honey
- sometimes I combine fat with those vegetables (tomatoes, cucumber, bell pepper, onions).
- homemade kefir, sauerkraut (I don't make it at home yet).
- fish/ meat
panacea
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Re: Kasper's thoughts

Post by panacea »

So is that all you eat? I mean just listing the healthy foods you eat isn't going to do much good. What's the full list of foods (especially the 'bad' ones, even if you don't eat them everyday, do you cheat)? Are you cooking any of your food, and at what temperatures? Are your meals small, are you chewing until all food is a liquid or paste and coated with saliva? These are the most important aspects of health, supplements should be low in the totem pole..

And why would you need things like amino acid supplements, zinc supplements, etc which are possibly loaded with toxic fillers and binding agents and other 'packaging' and other unknown problems when you have egg yolks which contain plenty of this?

Berries have the most surface area and weakest skins of the fruits - they're pesticide/herbicide laden, even under the skins, rarely ripe, and 'cleaning' the surface of them has never been shown to be effective at removing the pesticides (it can just push them through the skin), not to mention what was absorbed before then. It doesn't make any sense to me why someone would eat berries. Just because it's called a fruit doesn't make it healthy, take into consideration the outer shell and the fact you aren't eating them from a wild jungle.

Why would you need all those oils? Just eat avocadoes and raw fish, and you'll get much more balanced. People with gaps can't handle tons of fats (oils) according to Natasha, they just feed the problem. Same with a lot of honey, same with uncooked vegetables (and we don't want to cook).

My interpretation of all those supplements she is talking about is to get the severely impaired GAPS patient off of the damaging foods, off of most foods besides fruit juice or something and supplements, because even if supplements are sub-par it will give the body a break to get back in order. Then they can introduce normal healthy foods, drop the supplements, and get to a normal state. Nowhere do I see that taking these supplements is supposed to be an end-game and you'll suddenly notice perfectly formed stools with 1-2 bowel movements a day.

Also, that brings up the important question, how do you know you have gut problems? The only way I can measure this is through stool frequency and consistency, so whats your info on that?

Did you read this part of your own quote?
I have seen many patients who put a lot of effort into implementing the diet, but did not achieve the best results until they removed most of their supplements.
Also,
I choose supplements without any ingredients that aggravate the gut condition.
How in the world do you know this? Do you have some god-like powers all of the sudden that can tell you?
Example: fillers and other ingredients in the supplements you take can very well be harmful to your gut, even if it's not harmful to healthy peoples..
For most people, the (standard) Wai DIet doesn't cure gut flora problems at all.
This is because it contains much and much to much sugar (sucrose,glucose and fructose).
Why do you say the wai diet doesn't cure gut flora problems? Gut flora problems are caused mainly by a bad diet, wai diet is a great diet. It's even more "GAPS-like" than the actual GAPS diet. Apart from table sugar, I don't think there's a single thing in the wai diet that is bad according to GAPS rules. Sugar in fruits is stated to be nonharmful in the GAPS book, what book did you read? Especially when the fruits are juiced..

I find it very hard to believe that if you maintain 30+s CP, eat 100% wai diet (no table sugar), chew your food extremely well (use a timer), even the liquid food like egg yolks need to be chewed/swished until coated with saliva, and get off of every single supplement that you would not have normal stools and bowel movements (assuming you exercise at least 30 minutes per day) in three weeks.

Personally, I have some of the worst health of people my age because I am so sedentary, and eat junk food and cooked food constantly. Even so, there are times when I go for as little as 3 days on 100% wai and notice stool normalization. Unless you are a senior citizen, gut normalization should never take years.

I also personally strongly disagree with the use of probiotics. The harmful type and amounts of candida only exist in a person with slow digestion, toxic foods, undigested food, etc. If you chew well, eat right, and exercise, it solves the problem. Furthermore, even biokult has only 14 strands I think, there are over 500, probably in the thousands, of different bacteria in the complex bacterial system in your gut. There's no logic that biokult or any other probiotic makes any sense, if it did they would use this to colonize babies. No sane person would choose probiotics to colonize babies intestines over healthy breast milk. No one knows the natural levels of the 14 strands in biokult, and I doubt taking them in hoards is going to balance anything inside you. Overpopulating your intestines with another bacteria and crowding out candida is just going to present another host of problems. Don't fall for the same mistakes over again, just because something is touted to be wonderful in a lot of books, shown anecdotally to give great results to lots of people, etc, doesn't make it healthy. You can find people on any diet getting 'wonderful' results. You can go to amazon and read reviews for any probiotic, and there will be many who have rave reviews saying it's their savior. You can do this for just about any product actually. It has to make logical sense. Flooding 14 strands of bacteria to overcrowd candida doesn't balance anything, logically. It makes those 14 strands overcrowd other bacteria in your gut as well. There's absolutely no radar-targeting system for the candida problem only.
Kasper
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Re: Kasper's thoughts

Post by Kasper »

And why would you need things like amino acid supplements, zinc supplements, etc which are possibly loaded with toxic fillers and binding agents and other 'packaging' and other unknown problems when you have egg yolks which contain plenty of this?
I don't know exactly why, but my condition improves if I take them.
I think my zinc absorption isn't that good.
I think amino acids (cysteine) boost my glutatione, which is needed to handle the toxic load.
Berries have the most surface area and weakest skins of the fruits - they're pesticide/herbicide laden, even under the skins, rarely ripe, and 'cleaning' the surface of them has never been shown to be effective at removing the pesticides (it can just push them through the skin), not to mention what was absorbed before then. It doesn't make any sense to me why someone would eat berries. Just because it's called a fruit doesn't make it healthy, take into consideration the outer shell and the fact you aren't eating them from a wild jungle.
Maybe no wild jungle, but my garden is offering me much berries right now.
Otherwise they are organic.
Berries are much better in my opinion than other fruit.
Many contain anti-fungal properties and they have little amount of sucrose.
Why would you need all those oils? Just eat avocadoes and raw fish, and you'll get much more balanced. People with gaps can't handle tons of fats (oils) according to Natasha, they just feed the problem. Same with a lot of honey, same with uncooked vegetables (and we don't want to cook).
Natasha advocates fats as primary energy source.
I eat fats for energy.
I don't eat a lot of honey or fruits, so I need fats for energy.
My interpretation of all those supplements she is talking about is to get the severely impaired GAPS patient off of the damaging foods, off of most foods besides fruit juice or something and supplements, because even if supplements are sub-par it will give the body a break to get back in order. Then they can introduce normal healthy foods, drop the supplements, and get to a normal state. Nowhere do I see that taking these supplements is supposed to be an end-game and you'll suddenly notice perfectly formed stools with 1-2 bowel movements a day.
Again, this is what the book is saying:
-Continue with all the supplements until the end of the GAPS Introduction Diet. When your patient is on the Full GAPS Diet, slowly reduce the dose of the full blend of amino acids to 1-2gram per day, and gradually reduce zinc supplements to 10-15 mg per day. Continue with the three amino acids and the supporting nutrients for another 3-4 months at the same doses.
- As your patients recover you will be able to slowly remove most supplements, apart from cod liver oil and probiotics, which should be taken for a few years.


I have said multiple times that I don't consider supplements as the end-game.
Did you read this part of your own quote?
I have seen many patients who put a lot of effort into implementing the diet, but did not achieve the best results until they removed most of their supplements.
I wrote this down, so yeah I read this. But she says some need, some don't need. In my case, my condition imrpoves, and I achieve the best results when I supplement.
How in the world do you know this? Do you have some god-like powers all of the sudden that can tell you?
Example: fillers and other ingredients in the supplements you take can very well be harmful to your gut, even if it's not harmful to healthy peoples..
I avoid all the ingredients in supplements natasha see as problematic for gaps patients.
So is that all you eat? I mean just listing the healthy foods you eat isn't going to do much good. What's the full list of foods (especially the 'bad' ones, even if you don't eat them everyday, do you cheat)? Are you cooking any of your food, and at what temperatures? Are your meals small, are you chewing until all food is a liquid or paste and coated with saliva? These are the most important aspects of health, supplements should be low in the totem pole..
I've eaten really bad things in Ireland for 2 weeks.
But after that I've been quite strict.
I'm slow cooking my veggies/meat.

Things I eat I think ocassionaly which are not good for me:
- raw chocolate with coconut sugar.
- too much fruit, little bit addicted to peaches.
- Raw cheese
- olives
- Dried raw meat products (like parma ham)
- Beer/wine
- ... probably more things
I find it very hard to believe that if you maintain 30+s CP, eat 100% wai diet (no table sugar), chew your food extremely well (use a timer), even the liquid food like egg yolks need to be chewed/swished until coated with saliva, and get off of every single supplement that you would not have normal stools and bowel movements (assuming you exercise at least 30 minutes per day) in three weeks.
Well I would say try this out for 3 weeks, and see what happens.
I find it hard to believe that people make progress in candida or other gut problems while eating 2 kgs of fruit daily.
When I eat so much fruit I get a really white tongue and soft stools. Last week my tongue was completely clear of coating every morning (normally it was only white in the morning).

My stools have been quite OK for the last months. Even in Ireland.
But that doesn't mean my gut flora is completely restored. That means it finally gets the chance to really restore in my opinion.
Personally, I have some of the worst health of people my age because I am so sedentary, and eat junk food and cooked food constantly. Even so, there are times when I go for as little as 3 days on 100% wai and notice stool normalization. Unless you are a senior citizen, gut normalization should never take years.
... That is maybe your hope or whatever. What I mean with gut flora normalization is having no symptoms of the toxic load created by the gut flora, symptoms like:
autism,ADD, inflammation issues associated to the gut, allergies, digestive problems etc. etc.

I highly doubt that you read the gaps book if you make statements like this.
Even very little childs need many months to restore it.
I really hope that doing buteyko will accelerate this progress.

Btw, does your activity at the forum mean you were able to increase your CP :) ?
overkees
Posts: 598
Joined: Fri 05 Aug 2011 14:20

Re: Kasper's thoughts

Post by overkees »

Panacea, how do you know that eating wai normalizes your stools? I have been CP 35 constantly since end february begin march and if I am wai for two weeks that does not fix anything. Maybe for a few days I have nice stools, but there will come a time that I have diarrhea for 2 days and then it might repeat.

I have been able to maintain my no whiping protocol for 2 weeks after stopping with biokult, the current record. If people with autism get a symptom free or a bit of a normal life with gaps, and since biokult is essential on the gaps I don't understand why you are so freaking sceptic about it. Wai has a good logic and all, but I still think it misses out on a lot of things. That's the reason I am now on a 95% (wai + carrots + beets + onions + ginger diet with the occasional snack of 90 % pure chocolate) for quite a while. The chocolate is for mineral replenishment because I'm really low on magnesium and this is the best and densest food to provide it, since I have been eating chocolate I have not slept more than 9 hours, I noticed this when I took magnesium supplements so I decided to best take in a natural source. The only, I repeat only, munch food I'm having is french fries. I really can't kick that habit.
And sometimes I drink beer when under a lot of peer pressure, but this is practically never, because I almost never go out anymore since I'm a lot more serious with health and school.

I can't imagine that because of these munch foods my diet can't fit as a very very healthy diet according to your standards. SO, no a diet is not everything to fix your gut.

I would also like to add that I run 30 - 60 kilometers a week with nose breathing at a pretty high intensity. I do 1-2 hours of buteyko exercises daily when I'm in the train, waking up or laying in the bed. I have added a daily 40 minute session with the DIY breathing device, with a very thin rubber tube. I also relax all muscles two times a day, this is a really really tough exercise and I would like to recommend this to everyone btw. I do this strict for 2.5 months at the moment. Not supplementing with any other things atm. AND STILL NOT A PERFECT STOOL! So, please try 100% wai out for yourself for 2 weeks, exercise a bit and tell me you don't need to whipe your ass 2 weeks in a row, because I honoustly can't believe it. I have been on antibiotics thrice I must add, I don't know about you.
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