Coffee

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rTP
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Coffee

Postby rTP » Sat 15 Sep 2012 18:29

As a student, sometimes I feel that it's best to suspend perfect health for a day or two in the way of one cup of coffee when I have a particular essay to write. This has nothing to do with energy or needing to stay awake or the like, but rather with the neurological effects of caffeine. I've found that it increases the number of thoughts that go through my head (or, one could argue, the salience of these thoughts) allowing me to have more creative ideas (I forget the study, but it's been noted in "aha" creative moments by above-control activity spikes in the superior anterior temporal gyrus), form better conclusions, and come up with more interesting points. Lately I've probably been doing this about once every three or four weeks. I was wondering if anyone has had similar experiences and could suggest a good alternative, or if not, is there a way I should drink coffee which would make it any less impactful on my health (light/dark roast, lower temperature, consuming with(out) certain foods, etc.).

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RRM
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Re: Coffee

Postby RRM » Tue 18 Sep 2012 08:06

It stimulates the acetylcholine system.
Smoking does the same, but i dont think thats a healthy alternative :)
Yes, roasting is worst, so you might try a very much prolonged low-temp roasting,
though i dont know to what extend the toxins in coffee beans will be sufficiently destroyed then... :(
Kasper
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Re: Coffee

Postby Kasper » Tue 18 Sep 2012 09:04

Raw eggs contain choline.
Could this have similar effects ?
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Re: Coffee

Postby RRM » Tue 18 Sep 2012 09:11

I dont think so, because then the production of acetylcholine will still be in accordance with what the body sees as appropriate, whereas nicotine and caffeine have direct stimulatory effects (also on the bowels, for example). Almost similar to the differentiating effects on blood-nutrient levels between food and supplements.
dime
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Caffeine

Postby dime » Thu 14 Mar 2013 16:45

overkees wrote:I would rather suggest using caffeine as a supplement, that's much safer.
Why caffeine as a supplement? You sound like panacea and his dr. pepper..
overkees
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Re: No food, just Soylent

Postby overkees » Thu 14 Mar 2013 19:37

caffeine boosts metabolism and can be a useful 'cheat' when one wants to increase his CP. It is a very safe and thoroughly studied substances with little downsides (I don't know any).
dime
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Re: No food, just Soylent

Postby dime » Thu 14 Mar 2013 20:07

Exactly, it's just a stimulant that doesn't provide any nutritional benefit. I don't see the benefit of increasing your CP temporarily either. Isn't it also addictive?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine_addiction
Kasper
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Re: No food, just Soylent

Postby Kasper » Thu 14 Mar 2013 20:17

caffeine boosts metabolism and can be a useful 'cheat' when one wants to increase his CP.
How does caffeine boost metabolism ? By "stress" hormones ?

That is where I don't follow Ray Peat/Danny Roddy.
They are very anti-stress hormones (cortisol, epinephrine, norepinephrine) and very pro-caffeine.
But caffeine increases levels of cortisol, norepinephrine and epinephrine.
Contradiction!

I think you must either admit that those stress hormones can have positive anti inflammatory effects or you must recommend to avoid caffeine.
It is a very safe and thoroughly studied substances with little downsides (I don't know any).
Negative effects of caffeine
Caffeine can increase blood pressure in non-habitual consumers.[17]
High blood pressure is associated with an increase in strokes, and cerebral vascular disease, which in turn increase the risk of multi-infarct dementia.[17]
Caffeine may reduce control of fine motor movements (e.g., producing shaky hands)[11]
Caffeine can stimulate urination.[11]
Caffeine can increase cortisol secretion, some tolerance is developed.[18]
Caffeine can contribute to increased insomnia and sleep latency.[11]
Caffeine withdrawal produces headache, fatigue and decreased alertness.
Caffeine is addictive.[11]
High doses of caffeine (300 mg or higher) can cause anxiety.[11]
High caffeine consumption has been linked to an increase in the likelihood of experiencing auditory hallucinations. A study conducted by the La Trobe University School of Psychological Sciences revealed that as few as five cups of coffee a day could trigger the phenomenon.[19]
High caffeine consumption accelerates bone loss at the spine in elderly postmenopausal women.[20]
[edit]
dime
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Re: No food, just Soylent

Postby dime » Fri 15 Mar 2013 00:01

Kasper wrote: But caffeine increases levels of cortisol, norepinephrine and epinephrine.
If I remember correctly Ray Peat says to eat sugar with the coffee to prevent increase of these hormones.
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Re: Coffee

Postby Kasper » Fri 15 Mar 2013 23:53

If I remember correctly Ray Peat says to eat sugar with the coffee to prevent increase of these hormones
Sugar decreases stress hormones ?

Image
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http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v21/n ... 00494a.pdf
dime
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Re: Coffee

Postby dime » Sat 16 Mar 2013 02:51

Note it prevents increase, not decreases. Specifically cortisol I think he was saying.
overkees
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Re: Coffee

Postby overkees » Mon 18 Mar 2013 11:46

Yes, that's right. Caffeine actually stimulates autophagy by the way.

Caffeine is not a stimulant like methylphenidate, cocaine or amphetamines. Instead it is an adaptogen. It is very good for increasing metabolism (and therefore CO2) and my experiments with caffeine support this.

I was made very scared for too much caffeine and everyone always told me how harmful red bull is. But doing more and more research leads me to conclude actually the opposite is true if used in moderation.

Caffeine addiction is a whole other problem. You can be addicted to pretty much everything. I can also be addicted to eating dates, this is a fruit and shouldn't be addictive according to RRM, but it is to me. Same goes for bananas (I always eat too much if I start) and for raw nuts.

So yes, caffeine is a medicine for low metabolism and can have extraordinary beneficial effects if used in moderation to turn the metabolism up.
Kasper
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Re: Coffee

Postby Kasper » Mon 18 Mar 2013 12:56

Yes, that's right. Caffeine actually stimulates autophagy by the way.

Caffeine is not a stimulant like methylphenidate, cocaine or amphetamines. Instead it is an adaptogen. It is very good for increasing metabolism (and therefore CO2) and my experiments with caffeine support this.
Never heard of this. Any reference ?
overkees
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Re: Coffee

Postby overkees » Mon 18 Mar 2013 19:48

Reference for what part exactly? That it increases metabolism? Or the autophagy claim?

That it's an adaptogen instead of a stimulant will rather be a discussion.
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Re: Coffee

Postby RRM » Tue 19 Mar 2013 10:13

As with all drugs, there are beneficial and adverse effects.
"Coffee consumption has been associated with a lower risk of type 2 diabetes" Natella F et al
"There seems to be a consistent protective effect of caffeine intake on Parkinson's disease incidence". Palacios N et al
"Caffeine has acute and prophylactic therapeutic effects on hypnic headache disorders" Holle D et al

"The influence of caffeine (a kind of alkaloid) depends on individual metabolism (eg slowed down during pregnancy). Moderate caffeine intake by healthy adults at a dose level of 400 mg a day is not associated with adverse effects. Excessive caffeine consumption can cause negative health consequences such as psychomotor agitation, insomnia, headache, gastrointestinal complaints".Wierzejska R

"(review of 12 studies) The intake of coffee is contributed significantly to the increase in total cholesterol, LDL-cholesterol and triglyceride, and the changes were related to the level of intake". Cai L et al
Fifteen kinds of metabolites of caffeine have been found, influencing the enzymes CYP1A2, CYP2A6, N-acetyltransferase and xanthine oxidase. Chen Y et al Josse AR et al Amin N et al Full Free Text, which metabolize drugs and activate or detoxify carcinogenic compounds (and influence blood pressure Guessous I et al).
"Caffeine intake is associated with increased flow-mediated dilatation and fibrinolysis" (parameters in cardiovascular disease).Montagnana M et al
"eight studies all showed a positive association between caffeine and anxiogenic effects and/or panic disorder" Villarim MM et al

Because caffeine has various pharmaceutic properties, to me it seems unwise to expose yourself to it on a regular basis.

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