High pulse, arrythmia

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fred
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High pulse, arrythmia

Post by fred »

High pulse and arrythmia are 2 symptoms I have always experienced with the different high fat diets I tried. I don't have any cardiac issue. I never had this problem before going raw (13 years ago). A high fruit/low fat diet never disturbs my heart rythm. Last year I ate a raw carnivorous diet (with lots of fat) and my pulse was too high. So it is clearly related to fat.

After a few days on WaiDiet, I notice my pulse increases along with my fat intake. I can tolerate only a small amount of fat. The solution seems to increase my carbs intake and reduce my fat intake. But I am not sure it is really healthy on the long term.

Thank you for your help.
fred
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Post by fred »

I should add that I need to put some weight on my body (I am underweight) and I have found until now that only fat can help me to gain weight.
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RRM
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Re: High pulse

Post by RRM »

fred wrote:A high fruit/low fat diet never disturbs my heart rythm. Last year I ate a raw carnivorous diet (with lots of fat) and my pulse was too high. So it is clearly related to fat.
Maybe not, because that raw carnivorous diet was also high in protein.
So far we know that its not the sugars.
Maybe protein or fat (or something else...).
Did you also try high protein - low fat?
I notice my pulse increases along with my fat intake.
What kind of fat?
From oil? avocado? Nuts?
The solution seems to increase my carbs intake and reduce my fat intake. But I am not sure it is really healthy on the long term.
Its perfectly healthy if you got the balance totally right;
if you succeed in always carefully listening to your blood energy needs.
fred wrote:I should add that I need to put some weight on my body (I am underweight) and I have found until now that only fat can help me to gain weight.
Preventing weight loss involves multiple factors.
- keeping your blood glucose up very constantly, so that no muscle- and organ protein is converted for energy.
- sufficient fat helps to stabilize the blood sugar level
- sufficient protein helps to replace lost muscle protein
- physical exercises help to stimulate muscle building
Last edited by RRM on Sun 14 Feb 2010 18:02, edited 1 time in total.
Iris
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Post by Iris »

Also, gaining weight is actually easier on a high sugar/low fat diet :wink: So, to gain weight, I'd start juicing!
fred
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Re: High pulse

Post by fred »

RRM wrote: Maybe not, because that raw carnivorous diet was also high in protein.
So far we know that its not the sugars.
Maybe protein or fat (or something else...).
Did you also try high protein - low fat?
It's not the protein because the only way to not increase my pulse on a carnivorous diet is to eat lean meat (no fat). But lean meat makes me hypoglycemic.
What kind of fat?
From oil? avocado? Nuts?
Whatever fat, animal or vegetal. Even carbs increase my pulse after having overeaten fat and increase my pulse for a long time. But carbs are not the real cause, it's fat.
i forgot to mention that I made a blood test (before starting Wai, when I was on a carnivorous diet) and I had a very high cholesterol (4.31g/dl) and LDL (3.37d/dl).
Its perfectly healthy if you got the balance totally right;
if you succeed in always carefully listening to your blood energy needs.
I don't see other solution for now. But I'll have trouble gain weight.
Preventing weight loss involves multiple factors.
- keeping your blood glucose up very constantly, so that no muscle- and organ protein is converted for energy.
- sufficient fat helps to stabilize the blood sugar level
- sufficient protein helps to replace lost muscle protein
- physical exercises help to stimulate muscle building
Yes, As soon as I have enough energy (it is already much better now that I limit fibers, juice and eat honey), I'll exercice.
Thank you for your help !
fred
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Post by fred »

Here is my interpretation :

For a reason I ignore, my body refuses to store fat in adipose tissue. When my glycogen stores are full, my body does not want to store the blood fat (made from excess dietary glucose and fat), and the fat stays in my blood too long (hyperlipidemia, high chol.) disturbing my heart rythm.
On a frutarian diet, I simply could not eat enough sugar (I was low fat) from fruits to exceed my energy needs. So I did not experienced high pulse. I was underweight.
On a carnivorous diet, I could eat tons of fat and protein, my glycogen stores were full, and I could even managed to gain some weight as long as I could handle the high pulse, until I had arrythmia (unbearable).
On a Wai Diet, I notice my pulse increases when I feel energetic (glycogen stores are full) and when I eat too much calories (I don't move a lot these days). I have this high pulse since I eat high energy food : honey, fruit juice, coconut oil, olive oil.

Does it make sens for you ?
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RRM
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Re: High pulse

Post by RRM »

fred wrote: lean meat makes me hypoglycemic.
I guess you mean to say "eating nothing else than lean meat makes me hypoglycemic",
because if you combine lean meat with very regular intakes of carbs,
this will not make you hypoglycemic.
i forgot to mention that I made a blood test (before starting Wai, when I was on a carnivorous diet) and I had a very high cholesterol (4.31g/dl) and LDL (3.37d/dl).
Thats not an unimportant detail.
It makes your body respond to nutrients differently.
The high pulse is a distress signal in response to the combination of high fatty acid levels
in combination with your excisting high cholesterol.
Thats natural.
I'll have trouble gain weight.
If you do everything else right, you dont need fat to gain weight.
You will need:
- very regular intakes of small amounts of simple sugars
- carefully listen to your blood sugar level constantly
- sufficient intake of protein (also to compensate for the lack of fat; a part of the protein will be converted into the fatty acids required)
- build up of muscle glycogen prior to physical exercises
- targeted physical exercise with enough rest in between exercising the same muscles.
- no long duration physical activities

By the way, you also need a high intake of good cholesterol
(egg yolks) to increase the metabolism of cholesterol in general,
so that you more rapidly can remove the bad cholesteol still inside your body.
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Post by RRM »

fred wrote:Here is my interpretation :
...
Does it make sens for you ?
Yes, it does.
Its just that i dont think that your body refuses to store fat. (i dont see how it could, as it happens passively)
I think that your body does not tolerate any increase in blood-fatty acid levels,
because of the high cholesterol levels.
Hence the disturbed heart rhythm.
And it does not tolerate high blood-glucose levels either,
because that also elevates the blood fatty acid level.

So, we have a bit of a dilemma here.
High fiber, low energy foods are not good for your bowels.
Low fiber, high energy foods are not good for your heart.
To me, the only solution is 'the sip and bite diet' :)
: you need to take only sips and bites of the high low fiber, high energy foods,
and never consume entire meals,
so that you can very strictly control your blood energy levels (fat, glucose, protein)
fred
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Re: High pulse

Post by fred »

RRM wrote:I guess you mean to say "eating nothing else than lean meat makes me hypoglycemic",
because if you combine lean meat with very regular intakes of carbs,
this will not make you hypoglycemic.
yes, I was on a carnivorous diet, ie almost zero carbs. The conversion of amino acid to glucose was not enough to prevent hypoglycemia when I ate only lean meat (I just tried that on a few meals to alleviate my arrythmia).
Thats not an unimportant detail.
It makes your body respond to nutrients differently.
The high pulse is a distress signal in response to the combination of high fatty acid levels in combination with your excisting high cholesterol.
Thats natural.
My cholesterol was normal when I was on a high fruits diet. So I guess it is the excess energy intake, whether from fat or carbs, that makes my cholesterol and pulse sky rocket ? What I find strange is that I am underweight (60Kg 1m82), so I am far from eating too much energy. It is why I think my body stores very little adipose tissue.
If you do everything else right, you dont need fat to gain weight.
Do you mean I don't need to eat fat, or to gain fat ?
I come from the low carb movement, and with my hypoglycemic past on a high fruit diet, I am a bit afraid to eat high carbs/low fat.
You will need:
- very regular intakes of small amounts of simple sugars
- carefully listen to your blood sugar level constantly
- sufficient intake of protein (also to compensate for the lack of fat; a part of the protein will be converted into the fatty acids required)
- build up of muscle glycogen prior to physical exercises
- targeted physical exercise with enough rest in between exercising the same muscles.
- no long duration physical activities
I agree except for the targeted physical exercice. My goal is not to look like a bodybuilder. I want to put some muscle, sure, but also to develop my functional strength. This means working several muscles in coordination, lifting heavy weigh with all my body, etc. Why do you think that, given my health, targeted exercices are better than whole body exercices ?
By the way, you also need a high intake of good cholesterol
(egg yolks) to increase the metabolism of cholesterol in general,
so that you more rapidly can remove the bad cholesteol still inside your body.
I though that the cholesterol from food was largely discarded because the liver manufactures cholesterol according to the need of the body ?

Thank's very much for your help !
fred
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Post by fred »

RRM wrote:Its just that i dont think that your body refuses to store fat. (i dont see how it could, as it happens passively)
I think that your body does not tolerate any increase in blood-fatty acid levels,
because of the high cholesterol levels.
Hence the disturbed heart rhythm.
And it does not tolerate high blood-glucose levels either,
because that also elevates the blood fatty acid level.
As I have explained, I had a normal cholesterol level on a high fruit diet. So I guess the high cholesterol is just the consequence of a excess energy intake , especially from fat as it yields more calories. High blood cholesterol level is not a cause, but a consequence. Isn't it ?
My liver manufactures lots of cholesterol in order to deal with the high blood energy. Is it possible ?
So, we have a bit of a dilemma here.
High fiber, low energy foods are not good for your bowels.
Low fiber, high energy foods are not good for your heart.
To me, the only solution is 'the sip and bite diet' :)
: you need to take only sips and bites of the high low fiber, high energy foods,
and never consume entire meals,
so that you can very strictly control your blood energy levels (fat, glucose, protein)
I totally agree, because I don't see other solution (and believe me, I have tried virtually every possible diet!)
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Post by RRM »

fred wrote:What I find strange is that I am underweight (60Kg 1m82), so I am far from eating too much energy. It is why I think my body stores very little adipose tissue.
Its much more likely that something else is going one,
as the storage of triglycerides is a passive process.
Probably, you are not consuming excess energy.
If you do everything else right, you dont need fat to gain weight.
Do you mean I don't need to eat fat, or to gain fat ?
If you do everything else right (consuming small meals very frequently,
containing sufficient protein and sugars, and little fiber,
and continuously closely monitoring your blood energy levels)
THEN you dont need fat to gain weight,
as amino acids and glucose are also easily converted into triglycerides.
I am a bit afraid to eat high carbs/low fat.
I understand, but its not dangerous for you IF you do everything else right.
My goal is not to look like a bodybuilder. I want to put some muscle, sure, but also to develop my functional strength. This means working several muscles in coordination, lifting heavy weigh with all my body, etc. Why do you think that, given my health, targeted exercices are better than whole body exercices ?
What you described are (to me) targeted exercises,
'targeted to what you want to develop'.
I did not mean to say 'isolation' exercises.
I said 'targeted' so that you dont do things like running / swimming / cycling long distance.
I though that the cholesterol from food was largely discarded because the liver manufactures cholesterol according to the need of the body ?
No, its the other way around; the production of cholesterol is fine-tuned
in accordance with the intake of cholesterol.
In nature, organisms dont like to 'discard stuff'.
Yes, minerals are discarded when consumed in excess, but that is because there is no production of minerals that can be adjusted,
as we cannot produce minerals at all.
The stuff that we can produce (specific vitamins, cholesterol),
is always produced in accordance with our dietary habits,
as that is more efficient.
fred wrote: As I have explained, I had a normal cholesterol level on a high fruit diet. So I guess the high cholesterol is just the consequence of a excess energy intake
We dont know that.
It may, for example, also be due to a relative low capacity to take out cholesterol from the blood stream,
which will lead to a higher cholesterol level on a carnivorous diet.
especially from fat as it yields more calories.
That doesnt matter, as meat usually contains more than twice as much protein as it contains fat.
A carnivorous diet (compared to a fruit diet) is more specifically high in protein and cholesterol than high in fat.
High blood cholesterol level is not a cause, but a consequence. Isn't it ?
Everything is intertwined in the human body;
a high cholesterol also causes effects.
My liver manufactures lots of cholesterol in order to deal with the high blood energy. Is it possible ?
Please explain.
Last edited by RRM on Fri 19 Feb 2010 15:56, edited 2 times in total.
fred
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Post by fred »

I have read that cholesterol repairs damages in the body and is a powerful antioxydant. So I though that my body made lots of cholesterol to repair the damages made by the excess fat/protein he could not properly handle. My carnivorous diet was very high in fat (I choose very fatty cut of meat and add fat).
It's just that I would like to undestand!
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Post by RRM »

fred wrote:I have read that cholesterol repairs damages in the body and is a powerful antioxydant.
Cholesterol is a 'super vitamin' and has neuroactive properties,
but its not an antioxidant.
Yes, its also a building block for brain, liver and womb tissue, and sex hormones,
but it does not functionally make repairs.
So I though that my body made lots of cholesterol to repair the damages made by the excess fat/protein he could not properly handle.
Excess fat/protein is readily converted into triglycerides,
and does not lead to damage, but weight gain.
Sure, nitrogen from excess protein will lead to higher levels of ammonium and ureum,
which are mildly toxic, but this does not require extra cholesterol specifically.
My carnivorous diet was very high in fat (I choose very fatty cut of meat and add fat).
Still, its also high in protein and cholesterol (compared to a fruit based diet)
It's just that I would like to undestand!
We will get there.
Experimentation will learn us more.
Let us know how things go with the 'sip and bite' and low fiber diet.
And please closely monitor your blood energy levels;
always immediately consume some energy when your energy levels go down a tiny bit.
fred
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Post by fred »

I have less gas since I have reduced my fiber intake.
I eat small bites of honey, and sip some orange juice (without oil). I don't eat avocado anymore. I eat sashimi or egg yolks in the evening. So it's a high carb/moderate protein/low fat for now. Sometimes I eat a bit of fruit, but my energy level is generally lower after.

My energy is quite good now, sometimes very high, but not always unfortunately. Sometimes I notice my pulse increases a bit, so I stop eating and move my body to burn the excess energy.

Is one teaspoon of honey not too much sugar at a time ?
RRM wrote: You will need:
- sufficient intake of protein (also to compensate for the lack of fat; a part of the protein will be converted into the fatty acids required)
Do you mean that some fatty acids made from protein cannot be made from sugar ?

After 2 days without fat, I am loosing weight despite eating enough sugar to have sufficient energy for the day. I probably even eat too much sugar because my pulse increased a bit.
Maybe I need to eat more protein (and possibly fat) ?
Can my body store some fat in adipose tissue with only sugar and protein ? or does he lack fatty acids ?

I find I am not really satisfy without fat (constantly thinking to eat). I may increase carefully my fat intake.

BTW, is there a way to modify a post instead of adding new posts ?
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Post by RRM »

fred wrote:I don't eat avocado anymore.
I dont think you need to exclude avocado.
In my opinion, the focus should be on low fiber and consuming lots of small meals very frequently.
My energy is quite good now, sometimes very high, but not always unfortunately.
Thats totally under your control; the moment that you dont feel energetic,
you need to ingest some energy.
Sometimes I notice my pulse increases a bit, so I stop eating and move my body to burn the excess energy.
Be careful, the increased pulse may also be the result of undereating,
as adrenaline then makes sure to convert stored energy into available energy,
and adrenaline also increases your pulse.
Is one teaspoon of honey not too much sugar at a time ?
Not at all.
fred wrote:
RRM wrote: You will need:
- sufficient intake of protein (also to compensate for the lack of fat; a part of the protein will be converted into the fatty acids required)
Do you mean that some fatty acids made from protein cannot be made from sugar ?
Consuming small meals very frequently, there will be little excess glucose
that can be converted into fatty acids,
as excess glucose is primarily stored as glycogen (and you need more if you 'start moving' regularly)
Some amino acids can only be converted into fatty acids (and not glucose),
which is a good thing since you also need to replenish fatty acid levels.
After 2 days without fat, I am loosing weight despite eating enough sugar to have sufficient energy for the day.
I probably even eat too much sugar because my pulse increased a bit.
Your pulse also gets increased by a lack of direct energy.
If you are losing weight, you lack energy.
If you lack energy, you are not consuming energy frequent enough.
You wrote that there are moments that you feel less energetic,
which means that the blood sugar goes down a bit,
resulting in weight loss.
Maybe I need to eat more protein (and possibly fat) ?
Sure, you can increase protein and fat intake.
Can my body store some fat in adipose tissue with only sugar and protein ? or does he lack fatty acids ?
Yes, when the blood fatty acid level goes down,
or when the blood glucose level is relatively too high (relative to fatty acids),
many amino acids (and glucose) can (and will be) converted into fatty acids.
fred wrote:I find I am not really satisfy without fat (constantly thinking to eat). I may increase carefully my fat intake.
sure, go ahead.
BTW, is there a way to modify a post instead of adding new posts ?
No, only moderators can, to prevent abuse.
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