Lacking energy before lacking nutrients?

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RRM
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Re: Sipping vs Drinking

Post by RRM »

Kookaburra wrote:Consider this: I eat a bunch of different fruits, a few cups of OJ with OO, and animal food.
What do you eat exactly?
Then we can see what is missing, and how we can solve that most efficiently.
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Re: Lacking energy before lacking nutrients?

Post by Kookaburra »

That's just a quick example to debate your point that without adequate energy intake, one cannot meet requirements for nutrients.

Turns out that in the example I gave, even though one consume adequate energy on the Wai diet, one still cannot meet requirements for nutrients.
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Re: Lacking energy before lacking nutrients?

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Kookaburra wrote: Turns out that in the example I gave, even though one consume adequate energy on the Wai diet
You mean this example?
kookaburra wrote:RDA: FDA Men, 19-24yr (177cm/70in, 72kg/160lb)

Your selection:
[Item 1] 2units of Mango (Magnifera indica L.), [1][2],
[Item 2] 2units of Banana (Musa X paradisiaca), [1],
[Item 3] 2units of Apple (Malus sylvestris), no skin, [1],
[Item 4] 3units of Kiwi (Actinidia chinensis), [1],
[Item 5] 2cups of Orange juice (Citrus sinensis), fresh, not pasteurized, [1][2],
[Item 6] 7units of Brazil nut (Bertholletia excelsa), dried, unblanched,
Didnt you read my response?
RRM wrote:Your selection yields only 1204 kcal, which is way too little.
If one would expand your selection to yielding 3000 kcal, (10 bananas, 2 mangoes, 3 kiwis, 4 apples, 2 L orange juice, 10 Brazil nuts)
...
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Re: Lacking energy before lacking nutrients?

Post by Kookaburra »

No..

This:
Fair enough. Consider this: I eat a bunch of different fruits, a few cups of OJ with OO, and animal food. The calculator says that my energy intake is still not adequate(2500kcal) which also means that I haven't met all the requirements for nutrients. I still need 500kcal to reach adequate energy levels.

I then eat about 150g to 200g of table sugar. Now my energy requirements are met but can that be said for nutrients since sugar is 'empty calories'?
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Re: Lacking energy before lacking nutrients?

Post by RRM »

Please specify what you eat, exactly (in this example).
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Re: Lacking energy before lacking nutrients?

Post by Kookaburra »

Here you go:
RDA: FDA Men, 19-24YR, 72kg, 160lb, 177cm, 70in

Selection:
[Item-1] 2units of Chicken Egg yolk (Gallus domesticus), raw, [1],
[Item-2] 1units, medium of Banana (Musa X paradisiaca), [1],
[Item-3] 7table spoons of Olive oil (Olea europea), [1],
[Item-4] 3cups of Orange juice (Citrus sinensis), fresh, not pasteurized, [1][2],
[Item-5] 1units, medium of Muskmelon (Cucumis melo), reticulatus grp, cantaloupe-US, [1][2],
[Item-6] 3units of Avocados (Persea americana), California, [1].
As you can see above, I eat 4 different types of fruits, olive oil and animal food. That's an example of a Wai diet. Nutrient calculator says that total energy is 2504.36043kcal.

Now, remember this quote that you said?
RRM wrote:
Kookaburra wrote: I thought the Wai diet provides all the nutrients that you need even though your calorie intake is lower.
No, its based on adequate energy intake.
So based on that, because my energy intake is still 500kcal short of recommended , I haven't meet all nutrients' requirements.

So, I then eat 150g of table sugar. I update the calculator, and now the total energy is about 3080kcal which is adequate. But because sugar is empty calories, all the nutrients' values remain the same. Table sugar is part of the Wai diet too.

So to conclude, my energy intake is adequate. The food that I eat are all part of Wai. Yet, the Wai diet doesn't provide all the nutrients that I need, which renders your view that 'it's based on adequate energy intake' false.
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Re: Lacking energy before lacking nutrients?

Post by RRM »

On this diet, you add sugar to your diet if you are physically active to such an extend
that its hard to ingest enough energy by drinking just juices and eating fruits and animal food.
Your example is about when you need only 3000 kcal / day.
This means that in this example, you are not physically active.
If you are not physically active, you dont need any sugar for the extra energy.

Also, you are consuming too little egg yolk; men minimally need 3.
Also, this version of the diet is too high in fat; even without any oil, the ratio is: 135g fat vs : 113 g carbs.
So, to fix the above, and to get a 1 g fat vs 2 g. sugars ratio (so that you will feel more energetic),
this could be your diet:
RDA: FDA Men, 19-24YR, 72kg, 160lb, 177cm, 70in

Selection:
[Item-1] 3units of Chicken Egg yolk (Gallus domesticus), raw, [1],
[Item-2] 4units, medium of Banana (Musa X paradisiaca), [1],
[Item-3] 11cups of Orange juice (Citrus sinensis), fresh, not pasteurized, [1][2],
[Item-4] 1units, medium of Muskmelon (Cucumis melo), reticulatus grp, cantaloupe-US, [1][2],
[Item-5] 3units of Avocados (Persea americana), California, [1].
This would yield 2695 kcal,
so that you could eat an extra banana and drink an extra cup of OJ, with some oil (15 g),
or maybe you could add a little sugar (38 grams) if you will and some oil (17 gram) to get to the 3000 kcal,
and still be in balance.
So to conclude, my energy intake is adequate. The food that I eat are all part of Wai. Yet, the Wai diet doesn't provide all the nutrients that I need, which renders your view that 'it's based on adequate energy intake' false.
Sure, by consuming substantial amounts of oil and sugar on a low calorie diet, you can take out relatively much nutrients.
The more oil and sugar you consume, the more vitamins and minerals are eliminated, but that is not our goal here.
Thats not what this diet is about.
We dont use sugar and oil to eliminate nutrients,
No, we use oil to bring this diet into balance regarding the fat:sugar ratio,
and we use sugar to get the extra energy when you are physically active,
when it may be a bit hard to get that extra energy from eating fruits and animal food and drinking juices alone.
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Re: Lacking energy before lacking nutrients?

Post by Kookaburra »

RRM wrote: Your example is about when you need only 3000 kcal / day.
This means that in this example, you are not physically active.
If you are not physically active, you dont need any sugar for the extra energy.

Also, you are consuming too little egg yolk; men minimally need 3.
Also, this version of the diet is too high in fat; even without any oil, the ratio is: 135g fat vs : 113 g carbs.
So, to fix the above, and to get a 1 g fat vs 2 g. sugars ratio (so that you will feel more energetic),
this could be your diet:
Since I am not physically active, what's wrong with a high in fat version of Wai?
RRM wrote:
RDA: FDA Men, 19-24YR, 72kg, 160lb, 177cm, 70in

Selection:
[Item-1] 3units of Chicken Egg yolk (Gallus domesticus), raw, [1],
[Item-2] 4units, medium of Banana (Musa X paradisiaca), [1],
[Item-3] 11cups of Orange juice (Citrus sinensis), fresh, not pasteurized, [1][2],
[Item-4] 1units, medium of Muskmelon (Cucumis melo), reticulatus grp, cantaloupe-US, [1][2],
[Item-5] 3units of Avocados (Persea americana), California, [1].
This would yield 2695 kcal,
so that you could eat an extra banana and drink an extra cup of OJ, with some oil (15 g),
or maybe you could add a little sugar (38 grams) if you will and some oil (17 gram) to get to the 3000 kcal,
and still be in balance.
How do you know this version of the diet provides balanced nutrients? The nutrient calculator has so many "?g no data:3" values.
RRM wrote: Sure, by consuming substantial amounts of oil and sugar on a low calorie diet, you can take out relatively much nutrients.
The more oil and sugar you consume, the more vitamins and minerals are eliminated, but that is not our goal here.
Thats not what this diet is about.
We dont use sugar and oil to eliminate nutrients,
No, we use oil to bring this diet into balance regarding the fat:sugar ratio,
and we use sugar to get the extra energy when you are physically active,
when it may be a bit hard to get that extra energy from eating fruits and animal food and drinking juices alone.
So I have to re-structure my diet in such a way that the total sugar:fat ratio is 2:1?
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Re: Lacking energy before lacking nutrients?

Post by RRM »

Kookaburra wrote:
RRM wrote: Also, this version of the diet is too high in fat; even without any oil, the ratio is: 135g fat vs : 113 g carbs.
Since I am not physically active, what's wrong with a high in fat version of Wai?
Our general guideline for fat vs sugar is 1 : 2
Even without any oil, yours is already 1.3 : 1.1 ....
Sugars make you feel energetic, stimulate the uptake of neurotransmitters in the brain,
and help to sustain muscle mass by maintaining blood insulin and preventing the turnover of protein for energy.
kookaburra wrote: How do you know this version of the diet provides balanced nutrients?
I checked the calculator.
The nutrient calculator has so many "?g no data:3" values.
That just means that it has not been measured how much of that specific nutrient is contained in that food.
This means that your actual intake (of that nutrient) will be higher than displayed.
So I have to re-structure my diet in such a way that the total sugar:fat ratio is 2:1?
You just need to leave out the oil,
and instead consume some more bananas (or other fruits) / OJ.
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Re: Lacking energy before lacking nutrients?

Post by Kookaburra »

Then again, maybe 2500kcal is already adequate for me? I am small sized.
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Re: Lacking energy before lacking nutrients?

Post by RRM »

Well, your body will tell over time.
If you are losing weight, you need to consume more food / drinks.
If not, then you are fine.
Try to be 'in contact' with your energy needs constantly.
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Re: Lacking energy before lacking nutrients?

Post by Kookaburra »

RRM wrote:
Also, this version of the diet is too high in fat; even without any oil, the ratio is: 135g fat vs : 113 g carbs.
Is this version of the Wai diet similar to a ketogenic diet?
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Re: Lacking energy before lacking nutrients?

Post by RRM »

No ketosis requires something more extreme.
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