60s CP in one month

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overkees
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Re: 60s CP in one month

Post by overkees »

My MCP this morning was 28 s. My normal CP is 31. It's the first time I measured my MCP. It's looking pretty good. I have been training reduced breathing for at least 0.5 hour of time a day.

Still slept 9 hours today. Dammit. I will program myself to sleep 6-7 hours. Any tips on doing so?
dime
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Joined: Mon 14 Feb 2011 09:24

Re: 60s CP in one month

Post by dime »

Man pretty great MCP! Mine was 15 this morning.

Try going to bed with empty stomach and taking a cold shower before and sleeping in a not too warm room, maybe it will help with the sleep. But nevertheless, if your MCP is so close to your CP it means your sleeping pretty good already.
panacea
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Joined: Wed 23 Jun 2010 22:08

Re: 60s CP in one month

Post by panacea »

your bed is probably too soft overkees, or there may be some allergen in the room, is all I can think of. try setting your alarm for 6 hours, if you feel bed upon waking, then set alarm for 5 hours the next night, keep going down from 6 hours until you don't feel lousy on waking until you reach 4 hours.
overkees
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Joined: Fri 05 Aug 2011 14:20

Re: 60s CP in one month

Post by overkees »

Well, I did many researches on my sleeping problem. To sum it up:

When I was about 15 years old my sleeping problems started. I was kicked out of my bed, feeling wrecked, by my mother every day. In the weekends I slept for 12+ hours, sometimes 14 or 15 hours. I had no troubles during the week, because I was very tired upon waking but after 2/3 hours I was able to manage in school. We didn't call a doctor then.

When I went to the university, I moved. And that's when the trouble started. I slept for at least 12 hours every day. And always fellt tired. I could wake up 2 days in a row after 8 - 10 hours of sleep, but then I slept the day after for like 15 hours. My rhythm was bollucks and a lot of concentration problems..

Then we started researching my problems, and it turns out that all tests were very good. But I mean real good. In the sleep center I was their best sleeper they ever had. Only being awake for 20 seconds in 8 hours of sleep. A perfect breathing pattern, my oxygen was good, no restless legs, no signs of apnea, no nothing. All my sleep cycles were almost perfect.. Although I was woken up by the nurse. They couldn't see my light sleeping pattern.

Then I had another few researches done. And it turns out my cortisol level in the morning is too low to reach peak value. This peak is nature's own messenger that it's time to get out of bad. I can have the peak in my cortisol level only if I go to sleep every day at the same time. And I can't go an hour later to bed. Otherwise my system jams.. Every day going to sleep at 11 - 12 o clock and waking up 7-8 o clock. I can't deviate. And it takes me 3.5 weeks to get in the rhythm, one night of dancing and partying and I can start over new.

So the point is, I need to give myself a big stress at the moment the alarm goes off. For instance, if I have really important tests, I can come out of bed. But if I don't really have to, I sleep through all the alarms. I sometimes set 4 alarms and still only wake up when the first alarm goes off. In this time window of 30 seconds, I got to get out of bed or otherwise I will fall sound asleep again and almost nothing can wake me up, at least not for 1.5 hour.

I must add that thanks to the wai diet, I can wake up always after 10 hours of sleep and almost never sleep more than that. Thank god! Probably due to less sedatives like wheat and grains. If I have a pasta meal, I will sleep longer than this, for sure.

But maybe that's the point, just setting the alarm after 6 hours of sleep, or maybe even earlier. Since my sleeping quality is good, confirmed by the sleep lab, I can skip the light sleep face that only seems to make me sleepy even more... hmm, gonna try this one. Thanks for the tip.
panacea
Posts: 989
Joined: Wed 23 Jun 2010 22:08

Re: 60s CP in one month

Post by panacea »

If you sleep on a hard surface (2 thin blankets-thick over a hard wood floor for example) you won't 'fall sound asleep' again in morning, I'm pretty sure. You have to be pretty exhausted (like you should be) to go to sleep on a hard surface and if you keep the room on the cold side you will really be ready to get up in 4-5 hours.. Try it once :)
Kasper
Posts: 899
Joined: Sat 24 Apr 2010 12:48
Location: Utrecht; The Netherlands

Re: 60s CP in one month

Post by Kasper »

Okay, my update this morning:
Sleep time today: 03:30 - 07:30
MCP:
first measure, 57 seconds, couldn't believe my eyes, so I tried maximum pause, to see whats going on
Maxmimum pause was 1:59 seconds... Absolutely blown away width this. According to buteyko health zone levels this is corresponding width 80 seconds CP....
http://www.normalbreathing.com/index-bu ... -zones.php
Eye condition: Good, no signs of red, no pain or whatever

I don't know whats going on, I haven't measured MCP for two days, before that it was around 30-40MCP...
I feel absolutely great (read: I haven't felt any better in a long time..) at room temperature 9.5 degrees... after 4:00 sleep
The thing is: I haven't done anything like exercises in two (!) days.. the only thing I did buteyko style was some breathing exercises this night.. but only for 20 min I think.

The only thing I did special, and only yesterday, was a change in diet, but I didn't expect MCP increase (at least not in this way).
Well I'm going to do some exercises now. One thing I'm sure of, I don't want this feeling to go away.
dime
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Joined: Mon 14 Feb 2011 09:24

Re: 60s CP in one month

Post by dime »

Very interesting, what did you change in your diet?
panacea
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Joined: Wed 23 Jun 2010 22:08

Re: 60s CP in one month

Post by panacea »

Good work kasper!
It's a known phenomenon that breaking through the 40 CP barrier is the hardest for various reasons, many people linger around 30-40 CP for a while then break through, once they break through, if they practice good lifestyle factors (posture, eating, sleeping, exercise) etc, they can skyrocket to 60 s CP.

Make sure you exercise a lot so you can get even higher CP
After exercising your CP could go down - but later it will be even higher than before, so don't get discouraged!

Kasper, could you tell us what your automatic pause is at rest? (How many seconds after exhaling do you wait before inhaling?)
Very interesting! Are you saying you kept your room at 9.5 degrees?? That's cold, lol. it could explain why you get such a high MCP (coldness makes you breathe less to get higher body heat with more co2, but not advisable for people with under 25-30 s CP as it will just make you feel tortured).
Also you should do some experiments for us, such as how long can you hold your breath (with oxygen in there which is not maximum pause just breath holding time), it should be much larger than the MP.

Also kasper mentioned something everybody should be doing. The main thing that will stop CP growth besides lack of exercise is sleeping, to prevent this one of the main things you can do is reduced breathing exercises for 20 minutes before bed, which will make you breathe less (the right way) through the night (at least for 3-4 hours).
one of the easiest ways is to go for a walk outside in the cool night temperatures and while walking, reduce your breathing by creating air hunger (this will also make it even easier to fall asleep, if you're truly tired to begin with, and give you better quality sleep).
To create air hunger while walking you need to breathe nasally only, you can close one nostril if you can tolerate it and walk faster, or you can simply exhale and not inhale until you feel slight air hunger, and maintain this pattern.

There are ways to do this indoors as well, but the walking method is probably the best.
Kasper
Posts: 899
Joined: Sat 24 Apr 2010 12:48
Location: Utrecht; The Netherlands

Re: 60s CP in one month

Post by Kasper »

Kasper, could you tell us what your automatic pause is at rest? (How many seconds after exhaling do you wait before inhaling?)
It's hard to tell.. When I meaure it, I'm reducing my breath rate automaticly.
I can tell you that when I do reducing breath exercises, I take 4-5 small breaths every minute. 10/12 seconds minus inhale/exhale time = 6-8 seconds AP.
But this is not my normal rate... It's quite comfortable, but I think it's around 2-4 seconds automatic pause when I don't measure.
Very interesting! Are you saying you kept your room at 9.5 degrees?? That's cold, lol. it could explain why you get such a high MCP (coldness makes you breathe less to get higher body heat with more co2, but not advisable for people with under 25-30 s CP as it will just make you feel tortured).
Didn't knew that. I just have my windows wide open. Feels very good for my eyes. My hands and feet are less happy width it... :p but it's okay.
That sounds like a better explanation for my high MCP, surely holding them wide open.
Also you should do some experiments for us, such as how long can you hold your breath (with oxygen in there which is not maximum pause just breath holding time), it should be much larger than the MP.
I will try that out tomorrow morning.
Also kasper mentioned something everybody should be doing. The main thing that will stop CP growth besides lack of exercise is sleeping, to prevent this one of the main things you can do is reduced breathing exercises for 20 minutes before bed, which will make you breathe less (the right way) through the night (at least for 3-4 hours).
one of the easiest ways is to go for a walk outside in the cool night temperatures and while walking, reduce your breathing by creating air hunger (this will also make it even easier to fall asleep, if you're truly tired to begin with, and give you better quality sleep).
To create air hunger while walking you need to breathe nasally only, you can close one nostril if you can tolerate it and walk faster, or you can simply exhale and not inhale until you feel slight air hunger, and maintain this pattern.
This is a very good advise. It's quite hard, I'm not always relax enough to do reduced breathing when running/walking, but when I am, it's like the best natural high I've ever experienced.
Very interesting, what did you change in your diet?
Well, I'm experimentating width food intolerances etc./few food diet.
I'm a little bit afraid that this is all a big placebo effect (i'm very suspectible for placebo), so I don't want to take conclussions too fast.
In general, I feel very good, last couple of days, but also some strange stuff. Sometimes unbelievable tired, sometimes unbelievable active, but in general my mind is very peacefull and my body is very relaxed (i feel muscle relaxation all the time).

It's quite unreal, for example, 10 hours ago, I don't know the word for it, maybe, out of body experience (?). Really, one of the most scary things, I woke up from a nap, couldn't move my neck, couldn't open my eyes, I was hearing my brother walking the stairs, wanted to scream for help, I was like man, if they don't call the hospital I'm going to die here ... felt asleep again, 3 mins later, everything was okay..

I'm quite sure, it was not a dream, I asked my brother if he was walking the stairs, and he was walking the stairs.
But, I can't believe things like this happen to me, I'm not the type of persons who experiences this kind of stuff... it's like im writting harry potter book here...
overkees
Posts: 598
Joined: Fri 05 Aug 2011 14:20

Re: 60s CP in one month

Post by overkees »

What you experienced is a sleep paralysis event. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

I had my first sleep paralysis when I was 20. I heard someone call my name, I turned around and wanted to see who was calling me. Turns out nobody was in my room. Then all of a sudden I realize that I can't have turned my head to look who was in my room because I can't move anything. I start to panic and feel a force in my body which was rather similar to the feeling of hands that are asleep because you blocked the blood flow, it was a really hot feeling, like I burned from the inside. Then all of a sudden I realize that some devil has entered my body and trying to take over. I hear him and try to move, but still can't. Then all of a sudden I open my eyes and see the wall and realize I was paralyzed while still half conscious..

After this I had some more experiences, they all were terror. In this period I used a lot of drugs (amphetamines, xtc, weed). Always had something to do with crying alien babies in my bed, succubi, or other devilish figures.

I can also have them at command. I do this by laying on my back and totally relaxing all muscles. I hear all kind of voices and see silly things, this is when I notice I'm beginning to drift away and then I have this falling feeling. At this point, I try not to resist this feeling and when the whole environment is slowly fading away I try to get fully conscious. I then become aware in my dream and can do some lucid dreaming, but I always get carried away and fall deeper to sleep. At this point, I'm still laying on my back with my head to the cealing and I will have a sudden moment of stress. Probably because I could control my dream at one point and then suddenly not. Then I wake up in my body and can't move. There is ALWAYS a moment of panic and fear at this point. But since I have experienced a lot of those sleep paralyses I can find rest and have another lucid dream for a while. Then I will fall sound asleep and wake up the next morning.

Lucid dreams are very cool, you can travel to other 'astral' realms. Talk with other beings and even do some games with them, like darts for instance. I can also drive in my dreams - I never drove in real life. And even fly. I can also explore sexuality. Too bad you get carried away after a while and you will lose the control.

I don't do them on command very often, cause I hate the falling feeling. And also the short moment of panic is annoying.

Had a short event of paralysis this morning, the first one that occured spontaneously since 2.5 month. There was a little girl, like the girl in the ring standing in my room, not saying anything just standing there making weird noices. It only scared my for 10 seconds. Because I realized it was a SP.

That's the problem with SP, your senses are working, your muscles aren't, while still in light sleep. My dad woke up and used the bathroom. This probably triggered it.
panacea
Posts: 989
Joined: Wed 23 Jun 2010 22:08

Re: 60s CP in one month

Post by panacea »

Hey kasper, is your CP still high?? Any update? What dietary change did you make that is still inconclusively a factor?
Some months ago, RRM posted his CP (i asked him to test it) was 50 seconds ((which is really high for a non buteyko-student modern person)
If you're following this thread RRM, you should retest for us!
dime
Posts: 1238
Joined: Mon 14 Feb 2011 09:24

Re: 60s CP in one month

Post by dime »

I'm just above 20 MCP, my allergy is slowly going away.
Right now trying to adapt sleeping without a pillow. No pillow consistently makes me wake up in the middle of the night sleeping on the right side or back.. and then I have to put some pillow in order to fall back asleep.
overkees
Posts: 598
Joined: Fri 05 Aug 2011 14:20

Re: 60s CP in one month

Post by overkees »

Didn't do a lot of breathing excercises this weekend.. MCP is still around 30. Did not swim for 3 days. I drank again and smoked a lot of cigarettes again. Quit again on monday, it's going pretty good atm. Really struggling to quit smoking. But this time it's gonna happen. There's a strong will here, and I can't fall back to it just because I failed twice at it in 2 weeks..!
Did today swimming again. Felt very energetic, to my surprise. Tried to swim a little bit slower with the warming up, so I can use my nose to breathe. I immediatly notice the effect, you're in a much more relaxed vibe. Prette cewl!
Will do a lot of breathing excercises again, and tomorrow I'm gonna swim 3.5 km in an hour.
I'm currently sleeping for 6-7 hours 4 days in a row \o/. Not feeling tired at all. When I don't sleep at my girlfriend's I will sleep on a hard surface. I have a soft bed, she has a hard bed. So we'll see how it goes.

Quitting smoking is terrible, I get very sick. I get irritated easily and the worst of all are the symptoms that you caught a cold. My nose is runny, I sneeze a lot, and I'm coughing like a madman. When I have one cigarette I will feel better. But this time I'm not gonna give up. I can do wai for 98% so I can do this too!
dime
Posts: 1238
Joined: Mon 14 Feb 2011 09:24

Re: 60s CP in one month

Post by dime »

Good luck man! I know how nasty those symptoms are, with my allergy I'm with runny nose and sneezing every other day! It's the main reason that keeps me on this goal of increasing CP..
dime
Posts: 1238
Joined: Mon 14 Feb 2011 09:24

Re: 60s CP in one month

Post by dime »

Have you guys noticed that at consecutive measurements the CP increases up to a point?

What I did was, measure, normal breathing 1-2 minutes, measure, normal breathing, ...
The measurements were something like this: 17, 22, 27, 33, and then it stabilized at 27-28
Note: this was half an hour after I ate around 125g beef + 2 egg yolks.

I'm guessing that to get an absolute CP (for the sake of tracking progress accurately) it'd be better to get an average of several consecutive, and maybe even discard the first few ones. Or maybe my several measurements would've lead to the same result of one measurement after 5-10 minutes of normal relaxed breathing.. I should check.
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