Normal breathing

Breathing, sleeping, running, meditation, yoga, relaxation
Kasper
Posts: 898
Joined: Sat 24 Apr 2010 12:48
Location: Utrecht; The Netherlands

Normal breathing

Postby Kasper » Fri 11 Nov 2011 17:18

This thread is a split off from [url=viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2877]this one[/url

When you are high CP, running/walking outside is more important than breathing exercises.
Of course, running as advised by buteyko, width only nose breathing.
I also try to do reduced breathing exercises while running.
But almost never do reduced breathing exercises alone.
I like being outside in free time, and I prefer being active outside than sitting on a couch and doing breathing exercises.

More information about this:
http://www.normalbreathing.com/cardiova ... urance.php

Things I can noticed about inclined bed:
1. Never been that warm when sleeping and waking up. I slept width two windows open last two days on inclined bed.
My room temperature was 10-12 degrees in the morning. But still I do feel really warm.
Normally I feel really cold when waking up, even width windows closed and room temperate of 17 degrees.
2. My eyes are not painfull or red
3. More colour on face.
panacea
Posts: 987
Joined: Wed 23 Jun 2010 22:08

Re: Conjunctivitis - red eyes

Postby panacea » Fri 11 Nov 2011 22:23

The main factor in MCP when all other buteyko practices are decent is the actual sleep time. If you are on wai diet and you have a high CP, exercise, etc, you should easily adapt to less than 4 hours of sleep a night. If you can get it down to about 3 hours I think you will find that your MCP is quite higher..
dime
Posts: 1231
Joined: Mon 14 Feb 2011 09:24

Re: Conjunctivitis - red eyes

Postby dime » Fri 11 Nov 2011 22:30

So something like biphasic sleep (4 hours at night, 2-3 during the day) would increase MCP?
panacea
Posts: 987
Joined: Wed 23 Jun 2010 22:08

Re: Conjunctivitis - red eyes

Postby panacea » Fri 11 Nov 2011 23:00

No, 4 hours total, or better 3 hours total. People with really high CP, who don't have a very exhausting day, eat lightly, and sleep correctly commonly only need 2 hours total sleep in a 24 hour period (but they will frequently take a 20-30 minute catnap, while sitting usually, like in the grass against a tree in the high temperature point of the day, people with high cp are more sensitive to high heat when clothed because they are so warm 24/7, so in certain places, with clothing, it becomes too much)

Oversleeping actually causes them to feel sloggier through the whole day than the 2 hours.. This is because the longer you sleep, the more your MCP drops..
When you have a high MCP plus a high CP, you feel great all day, a whole new level of great, so that when you oversleep, the next morning you are back to a lesser feeling (but still great in comparison to most people using coffee to stay alert)

Although, it's not much like a 'drug high' feeling, but rather a childlike energy feeling where nothing is bothering you (no sore muscles when sitting for a long time, no exhaustion when standing a long time, it doesn't feel like exercise is exercise, just fun, just like a healthy child would feel by running around in the back yard)
dime
Posts: 1231
Joined: Mon 14 Feb 2011 09:24

Re: Conjunctivitis - red eyes

Postby dime » Fri 11 Nov 2011 23:07

Hmm somehow I doubt it. Have you experienced this? Or who are these people, do you know anyone? Or is it just theoretically how is it supposed to be when you have high MCP/CP?
panacea
Posts: 987
Joined: Wed 23 Jun 2010 22:08

Normal breathing

Postby panacea » Fri 11 Nov 2011 23:12

from site: normalbreathing.com
the author of that site teaches people in person reduced breathing method originally made by a guy named buteyko
according to him, exceptionally high CP/MCP students need sleep approaching the minimum of 2 hours a night

In my own experience, since I never have gotten that high of CP/MCP, I did need far less sleep than I have in the past, usually about 4 hours for me, 5 was the max, and that was with relatively low CP/MCP.

In the past I would sleep for about 7.5 hours as a young teenager. Later (around age 17) I would sleep for 9-10 hours sometimes because my body started to become more sensitive to the typical SAD diet full of lactose and grains.

also, i guess it should be noted that the 2 hour sleep thing only applies to adults - apparently young kids need more sleep, probably for growth reasons, and it's not known what these numbers are for children with exceptionally high cp/mcp yet
dime
Posts: 1231
Joined: Mon 14 Feb 2011 09:24

Re: Conjunctivitis - red eyes

Postby dime » Fri 11 Nov 2011 23:36

Hard to believe, because I haven't heard of people sleeping that little.. unless you do something like polyphasic sleep, but then again it hasn't been proven that anyone has succeeded in that. And I'm pretty sure there are plenty with such an exceptionally high CP/MCP, like elite athletes, or maybe those indian masters that do nothing but yoga and meditation with slow breathing all day long.

It's interesting to see how much different animals sleep: http://www.yowazzup.com/2008_02_01/anim ... hours.html

How long have you managed to sleep 4-5 hours/day?
panacea
Posts: 987
Joined: Wed 23 Jun 2010 22:08

Re: Conjunctivitis - red eyes

Postby panacea » Sat 12 Nov 2011 00:40

There are a bunch of famous people said to have slept very little, thomas edison, leonardo da vinci, nikola tesla, etc

I slept 4-5 hours a day for weeks with no side effects from it, in fact I feel much better when I can sleep less than when I need more sleep. When I sleep less I wake up much faster, I wake up wide awake and alert, and my muscles feel like they are ready to go. That's the main difference, because when I sleep over 7 hours, it's usually a feeling of not wanting to get out of bed.
dime
Posts: 1231
Joined: Mon 14 Feb 2011 09:24

Re: Conjunctivitis - red eyes

Postby dime » Sat 12 Nov 2011 08:22

Yeah I've done the same, slept 4-5 hours a day and felt good for a week. But I was persistent with it, and by the end of the month I was a zombie..

Long-term this just doesn't work. Naturally (no alarms or someone waking you up) people won't wake up after 2-3-4 hours sleep for a long time. The myths about those guys sleeping little.. how come there are no famous people sleeping little today, so we can verify? :)
panacea
Posts: 987
Joined: Wed 23 Jun 2010 22:08

Re: Conjunctivitis - red eyes

Postby panacea » Sat 12 Nov 2011 12:04

Actually I said 'weeks' not week, I never felt like a zombie because of that, like I said I felt better when I slept less.. I also never use an alarm or have someone else wake me up, if I sleep for 4-5 hours or if I sleep for 7-8 hours depends on my CP (which is affected by how sedentary I am mostly). Most famous people today don't have an optimal lifestyle, even if they are athletes they usually will get involved with drugs (like alcohol), medicines (for 'insomnia', which is actually just a need to sleep less), etc, which all greatly reduce CP and can cause a need for longer sleep.

It appears that no matter what I tell you, nothing will prove it to you except a double blind study which is not going to happen because sleep researchers are interested in what's 'average', which is obviously 6-8 hours..

Everything I'm saying is based on CP/breathing affecting sleep (and other lifestyle factors being decent), so of course if you are not reducing breathing and practicing those lifestyle habits buteyko pointed out then it would be a struggle to sleep 4-5 hours a day for you and would cause sleep deprivation for you.

When you are practicing buteyko method however, reducing sleep can be beneficial because it raises your MCP, which is a major factor in needing reduced sleep the next night, so that it's a cyclic mechanism which results in eventually approaching the minimum 2 hour sleep requirement.
dime
Posts: 1231
Joined: Mon 14 Feb 2011 09:24

Re: Conjunctivitis - red eyes

Postby dime » Sat 12 Nov 2011 12:14

Ah ok, I missed that. And if you haven't used an alarm then that's a different story.

Ok so I'm doing wai diet with no cheating anymore (my steamer broke so no more rice..), I'm exercising every other day (weight training now, too cold for biking or running), I don't take any drugs or alcohol or medicines, I'm sleeping in a bed 20cm higher at the head, most of the time I'm trying to breathe slowly. All I need is to do the breathing exercises then, let's see whether my sleep reduces, without any side effects :)
panacea
Posts: 987
Joined: Wed 23 Jun 2010 22:08

Re: Conjunctivitis - red eyes

Postby panacea » Sat 12 Nov 2011 13:23

The breathing exercises aren't really important if you are exercising, depending on what type of exercise you're doing (running, walking, jogging, swimming type stuff is best). The main factors that influence CP and breathing 24/7 are exercising with nose breathing only (if you exercise with mouth breathing then you're actually worsening your CP), and correct sleeping habits (not oversleeping either), but there are many other important factors like diet, not overheating (not wearing too much clothing or keeping house too warm, this makes nose breathing uncomfortable because nose breathing warms you up, and you will breathe faster when overheated to try and cool down (constrict blood vessels), which lowers CP. There's hidden factors like cavities, dead tonsils, etc, which can limit how high of a CP you can get before your immune system attacks that problem area and causes you to feel really sick (and then your CP drops again until your immune system stops fighting it and you feel better), etc.

Also, about sleeping, it's important not to sleep on your back, or your right side, but rather on your left side or stomach or inbetween those two..
One of the issues I had in the beginning was being very uncomfortable when I tried to lay on my stomach to sleep and breathed with my nose, it felt stuffy, kind of like when people complain their pillow is too warm and flip it to the other side - the pillow isn't too warm and it's not stuffy, it's just too warm in the room or you have too many blankets on, you should feel a bit on the cold side when sleeping (but still warm enough to fall asleep)
overkees
Posts: 598
Joined: Fri 05 Aug 2011 14:20

Re: Conjunctivitis - red eyes

Postby overkees » Sat 12 Nov 2011 14:16

Hmm, sleep is a major issue for me and I would love to reduce my sleeping time. I was able to sleep 2 weeks vor 7 hours and i felt great. I had a party and examinations and I'm sleeping 10-11 hours most of the days again. Today I managed to get only 9 hours of sleep and I think I'm going to 8 hours slowly again.
Im not doing the CP test and the reduced breathing daily, more like one time in three days and maybe I should pick it up again. It really makes me feel better. I started with CP 16 and now I have a CP of 25. I had 29 for 3 days in a row 2 weeks ago. What's your CP panacea?

The problem with the CP is that I don't see it in animals. Animals don't pause their breathing. How come we are breathing so wrong nowadays? If it's true what normalbreathing.com has to say then I think it's a major flaw in evolution.. What are your thoughts about this?
waipete
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed 18 May 2011 20:16

Re: Conjunctivitis - red eyes

Postby waipete » Sat 12 Nov 2011 14:23

I too have gotten red eyes it comes and goes, I initially thought it was soap in my eyes but it was usually after a hot shower. I then again blamed accutane for this but I think it only caused it to worsen. I think it might be allergies as this happened more in hay fever season, and sometimes got very itchy. It happened mostly as a teenager then lessened for awhile then after accutane increased but now is coming less frequently, I think this is due to the winter weather we now have here.

Id really like to try breathing exercises but I live in a basement with mold infestation, and it's cold dry air outside, I'm moving though so I can in December.
panacea
Posts: 987
Joined: Wed 23 Jun 2010 22:08

Re: Conjunctivitis - red eyes

Postby panacea » Sat 12 Nov 2011 15:23

My CP fluctuates from 25-35 seconds depending on how sedentary I am which affects how long I sleep, although I got higher on some rare occasions - mainly though I'm extremely sedentary which hinders my progress, for 3 days a week I basically do nothing but read, but I'm working on it :)
The problem with the CP is that I don't see it in animals. Animals don't pause their breathing. How come we are breathing so wrong nowadays? If it's true what normalbreathing.com has to say then I think it's a major flaw in evolution.. What are your thoughts about this?
From an interview with Buteyko,
Question; What scientific laws support your discovery and the method based on it?

Answer: Our theory is a developed hyperventilation syndrome theory. Hyperventilation syndrome is the initial stage of the deep breathing disease. The theory is based on up-to-date concepts of the grandiose biological role of CO2 in providing health of humanity and fauna, as well as on physiological mechanisms of CO2 effects on the organism, all its systems, flora and fauna. Carbon dioxide is the staple for all the living matter on the Earth (plants take it from the air). Animals eat plants, and people eat both. Huge percentages of CO2 in the air of ancient times have come down to our minuscule 0.03%. Absorption of this residue by plants may inevitably lead to end of life on Earth. I reported that at the World Geochemistry Congress in Moscow in 1972. Metabolism in human and animal cells developed in ancient geological epochs when concentration of carbon dioxide in air and water was dozens per cent. Therefore, a specific cellular concentration of CO2 is a part and parcel of normal biochemical processes. In the course of evolution the human organism and the highest animals have developed a self-governing aerial system in the form of pulmonary alveolar air which contains about 6.5% of CO2 and 7% less oxygen than in the ambient air. This is apparently the minimum level of CO2 that provides normal metabolic activities in cells. For example, reduction of CO2 in the lungs due to hyperventilation offsets ?? to the alkaline medium which alters vitamin and ferment activity. When the activity of metabolic regulators changes, normal metabolism shutters and this leads to loss of cells. If CO2 comes down to 3% and ?? offsets to 8%, the organism dies. Destructive effects of hyperventilation via creating CO2 deficiency in the organism have been verified by numerous experiments, first started by the famous physiologist D. Henderson in 1909. Henderson connected animals to a hyperventilation machine and they died. Evolution has worked out the following protective mechanisms to stabilize CO2 in the lungs: ?) bronchospasm and vasospasm; b) increased production of cholesterol by the liver: it works as a biological insulation that consolidates cell membranes in the lungs and vessels; and c) lower blood pressure (hypotension), which reduces loss of CO2. However, bronchospasm and vasospasm constrict oxygenation of the brain, kidney and cells of other organs. Diminution of CO2 in the blood enhances reactogenicity of oxygen and hemoglobin to downgrade oxygenation of cells (the Verigo-Bohr effect). Reduced oxygenation of tissues results in hypoxia. On reaching hazardous levels, hypoxia may cause higher blood pressure (hypertension) in some individuals. High blood pressure increases the bloodstream through constricted vessels to enhance oxygenation of the vitally important cells. Tissue hypoxia shrinks the level of oxygen in the venous blood which then brings about varicose veins in legs and develops varix, or, alternately, varicose haemorrhoidal veins with consequent hemorrhoids. Gradual subtraction of CO2 from the blood boosts blood coagulation, and combined with deceleration of bloodstream in the veins it may cause thrombophlebitis. Acute hypoxia of the vital organs irritates the respiratory center creating the dominant activation there. This deepens breath, produces the feel of dyspnea (or air shortage for deep breathers) and locks the vicious circle (the positive feedback that persistently intensifies or deepens breath, stimulating the above disorders-illnesses). Removal of CO2 from the nervous cells decreases their excitability threshold, which activates all parts of the nervous system, augments the excitement generalization, and leads to irritability, insomnia, extreme nervous tension, unfounded suspiciousness, fear, or even fainting and epileptic seizure. Simultaneously, the respiratory center grows more and more agitated. That is how the second vicious circle of nervous excitement circulation locks. If metabolism is disturbed and the nervous cells suffer from hypoxia, the nervous system becomes exceptionally sensitive to external stimuli and stresses. This is why CO2 deficiency caused, namely, by hyperventilation affects the nervous system firsthand. Symptoms of various disorder combinations in deep breathers are incredibly versatile. The traditional disease analysis has brought us to giving various deep breathing disease symptoms (such as bronchospasm, cardiac vasospasm, high or low blood pressure, or syncope with spasms) names of totally different diseases: bronchial asthma, angina, high blood pressure, and epilepsy. The latter cause side-effects: pneumoscelorsis, vasosclerosis, cardiac infarction, and stroke. All of these are the main elements of early senility, decrepitude, disablement and, finally, death. The above physiological laws explain the malignant (venomous) effects of deep breathing and give grounds for the only scientific principle of eliminating disorders (called diseases), i.e. by increasing the level of CO2 in the body. This is the principle we have based our method of the voluntary hyperventilation elimination (VHE), or voluntary breath normalization (VBN) on. If the breathing depth drops below normal and the level of CO2 in the organism grows 0.5% above, there will be no negative symptoms. Quite on the contrary, ex-patients with deep breathing (i.e. bronchial asthma, angina, or high blood pressure) develop symptoms of unendurance, which has been consistently observed for almost two decades. We found out that extreme de-deepening of breath does not end in harmful aftereffects. This is how we have actually discovered the main law of death: the deeper you breathe v the stronger the illness is, and the closer death draws. Reversely, the shallower the breath, the healthier, tougher and more durable the organism.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest