Normal breathing

[dime]

Minuscule percent of CO2 in the atmosphere? Obviously in 1972 they were not so concerned about the green house problem.. now the main concern is to limit CO2 production in order to slow down the temperature raise.

[panacea]

http://www.globalwarminghysteria.com/te ... l-warming/

The main concern is not to limit CO2 production for everybody, it's merely what the sheeple and masses are chanting like raving lunatics..

[dime]

I've been having some lectures at AWI (the German polar research institute) just a few weeks ago, and according to them it is a pretty main concern.. if the current trends of CO2 production continue unchanged, quite some land (coasts) will go under water in some 100 years.

[panacea]

Whether that will happen or not still hasn't been shown to be due to CO2 at all, as far as I'm aware, but if you find anything that proves that it is that would be interesting..

[dime]

Well according to this CO2 has a pretty big impact:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse ... ensitivity

or if you look at trends in history:
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwa ... hange.html

[panacea]

Did you read the first link I posted,

MYTH 3: Human produced carbon dioxide has increased over the last 100 years, adding to the Greenhouse effect, thus warming the earth.

FACT: Carbon dioxide levels have indeed changed for various reasons, human and otherwise, just as they have throughout geologic time. Since the beginning of the industrial revolution, the CO2 content of the atmosphere has increased. The RATE of growth during this period has also increased from about 0.2% per year to the present rate of about 0.4% per year,which growth rate has now been constant for the past 25 years. However, there is no proof that CO2 is the main driver of global warming. As measured in ice cores dated over many thousands of years, CO2 levels move up and down AFTER the temperature has done so, and thus are the RESULT OF, NOT THE CAUSE of warming. Geological field work in recent sediments confirms this causal relationship. There is solid evidence that, as temperatures move up and down naturally and cyclically through solar radiation, orbital and galactic influences, the warming surface layers of the earth's oceans expel more CO2 as a result.

as is supported by http://www.friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=455

the graph you posted (second link) also shows that CO2 lags AFTER temperature changes, showing that increase/decrease CO2 is a result of temperature changes and not a cause of it, basic cause and effect..

As far as the greenhouse effect, it's still not shown how much of an effect this will have, or whether other climate factors will move the other gases around to negate the effects of CO2.. it's apparent that CO2 is a factor in climactic temperature, it's not proven that the amount humans contribute is significant, and it's not even proven that the amount on the entire Earth is significant enough to outweigh other climactic factors. The evidence so far, which shows CO2 is correlated with temperature but lags behind it, suggests that CO2 has very little causal relationship to temperature and is moreso affected by it.

[dime]

Did you read the wiki page? CO2 contributes 9-26% to the green house effect. I mean it can't be more obvious that any changes of CO2 will reflect to this green house effect. It doesn't matter whether we humans change it, or a vulcano, or deforestation, or forest fires, or whatever, it will have an impact on the climate. Maybe it's not initiating the warming up, but it's amplifying it: http://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-lag ... rature.htm

Point is, Buteyko saying that there's not enough CO2 in the atmosphere is wrong, CO2 is just enough.

[dime]

Back to the sleeping :) Seems like you need CP of 180 if you want to reduce sleeping to 2 hours!

http://www.normalbreathing.com/how-to-sleep.php

Getting that CP would be harder than getting a gold medal at the olympics..
4 hours seems more manageable, so I'm targeting CP of 60s.

[panacea]

Lol it's not that hard, it just takes determination, but for much less time than would be required for olympics.
It's actually harder to break through the CP of 40 than the higher levels (it will take more time to get to 40+ CP consistently than it will take to get to 180)

As for the greenhouse effect, again it's still not known that the changes are significant or how much it amplifies temperature. Remember, CO2 lags behind temperature, so if CO2 was such an amplifier, then when it got cold, it would escalate to freezing and more freezing as CO2 dropped or vice versa and there would be no life on Earth, but obviously, even though CO2 gets really low or really high after temperature, something comes later that will change the temperature in the opposite direction, without CO2 magically being polluted into the air (since a global warming effect has happened in the past when CO2 levels were miniscule (think ice age)).

I also want to point out that Buteyko was saying the human breathing system evolved in an air environment where CO2 levels where much much greater (somewhere between 3-12% co2 in air) whereas now it's only 0.3%. As you can imagine, life flourishes when there is more CO2 due to plants having more food, which means bigger/more plants, which means plant eating animals have more to eat, which means predators have more to eat, which means capability of bigger organisms (kind of like the dinosaurs). If CO2 got too low, then plants would be more scarce, and the biggest animals would usually be the weakest link, that's what he is afraid would happen.

[dime]

It's actually harder to break through the CP of 40 than the higher levels (it will take more time to get to 40+ CP consistently than it will take to get to 180)

You sure about this? In general in life, the closer you get to mastering something the slower your progress becomes (think of an inverse logarithm), so I thought it should be similar here

[panacea]

Yeah I'm sure

[dime]

ok then let me rephrase it: 180 CP here I come :D

[Kasper]

Good to see some people intrested in increasing CP!

What I was thinking..
I have set for myself the goal (some weeks ago) to get at 60s CP 24 hours for 1 month.

It would be a huge motivation boost for me to try to get such a goal together width some other people.
Anybody intrested ? Dime,panacea,overkees? Maybe Oscar, RRM? anybody?

I think evaluating a goal everyday, is a very important habit to really achieve such a goal.
Problem width me is, that people in my direct social environment, thinks I'm totally nuts...
Sharing such evaluation to some non-judging people who actually have the same goal, would make it much more fun I think.

The idea is simple, just sharing daily/weekly things like:
- MCP/CP
- time spend on physical exercises/breathing exercises
- time spend horizantally
and whatever you want...

It would also be quite intresting scientificly. To share such information.
Again, anybody intrested ?

[dime]

Kasper that's an awesome idea, I'm totally in! It sure would help with motivation. Let's continue on a separate thread for this: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2970

[dime]

I also want to point out that Buteyko was saying the human breathing system evolved in an air environment where CO2 levels where much much greater (somewhere between 3-12% co2 in air) whereas now it's only 0.3%.

CO2 levels have been varying between 150 and 300ppm (similar to current levels) for the past few million years (in those 100k year intervals).
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/11/13/c ... c-history/

The 3-12% represents the state much further back in history, beyond 50 million years:



You could say our extremely distant ancestors evolved in such a high CO2 environment, but I guess there was enough time to adapt to the lower levels. What's interesting is that CO2 levels this far in history didn't seem to correspond much to the temperatures, you could see very high CO2 like 8% but cold climate, and vice versa. If the graphs are accurate..