Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Fasting during the morning and (some part of) the afternoon, eating at night
dime
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby dime » Wed 22 May 2013 15:10

Whether it is superior, is something that will need a lot longer time to manifest in my opinion.
But the fact that he's maintaining weight while ingesting 25% less energy, already demonstrates that the whole machinery got quite a bit more efficient.
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RRM
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby RRM » Wed 22 May 2013 18:23

Kasper wrote:Another question.
Have you noticed any signs that this "grow younger" process is actually happening?
Actually, its not "growing younger".
'Normally', damaged / old / non-functioning organelles eventually compromise cell functioning, leading to cell death and (extra-cellular) decomposition,
triggering cell-renewal, and thus ageing.
With autophagy, such dysfunctioning organelles are recycled within the cell, thus rejuvenating the cell, but not aging of that cell-line.
With autophagy, cell-renewal is postponed, but not reversed.
That means that if 50% of the replicative capacity has been used up, autophagy can maximally inhibit further use of the replicative capacity,
and it can never bring that figure down to 49%, for example.
So, due to autophagy individual cells may "grow younger" (reversing the effects of old organelles affecting cell functioning),
but not the organism they are part of (you / me).
I don't really know which sort of signs this could be.
Probably, a whole bunch of individual cells are working better now,
but whether that might actually constitute a noticable improvement of certain (parts of) organs, is the question.
Maybe your skin looks younger, maybe old scars are healing, maybe better concentration etc. etc.
The only thing i do notice is the subjective feeling that as if im better trained, or something.
Eg the difference between running daily, or not.
Is there anything that would make you conclude that Wai Warrior is definitely superior to Wai regular as it comes to autophagy?
There are a lot of theoretical reasons why it may be superior, but sometimes it works out different in practice.
No, no practical indications.
The only things i can think of, are pure theoretical deductions.
dime wrote:Whether it is superior, is something that will need a lot longer time to manifest in my opinion.
Kasper specifically said: "as it comes to autophagy".
As Wai Warrior involves fasting, and Wai regular does not, i think we may conclude that Wai Warrior is superior regarding autophagy (only).
This 18.00 Wai Warrior version is (so far) not superior regarding muscle growth.
Maybe a less extreme version of Wai Warrior (eg fasting till 14.00) may be superior regarding muscle growth,
as the anabolic effect of lots of energy and protein after exercise may then dominate the break down of muscle tissue during the day.
Whether Wai Warrior is superior in general is absolutely the question, indeed.
I think Wai regular is superior regarding digestion and energy levels, which may affect a host of other issues.

@ Oscar: Good idea to add "- AN EXPERIMENT" to the title; i hadnt thought of that.
dime
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby dime » Wed 22 May 2013 19:04

This 18.00 Wai Warrior version is (so far) not superior regarding muscle growth.
Surely, for maximum muscle growth you need abundance of energy and nutrients at all times.
But I think it's about the best version when it comes to intermittent fasting, caloric restriction or anything else that wants to maximize autophagy. Because anabolic hormones (GH, IGF-1, testosterone) peak during the night as far as I know, so eating a lot just before sleep is perfectly timed to make use of this.
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby RRM » Thu 23 May 2013 14:07

dime wrote:
RRM wrote:This 18.00 Wai Warrior version is (so far) not superior regarding muscle growth.
Surely, for maximum muscle growth you need abundance of energy and nutrients at all times.
True, but Wai regular is about small meals only, so that Wai Warrior more so than Wai regular stimulates muscle growth right after exercise,
but indeed, on the other hand, Wai regular prevents degradation of muscle protein for energy during the daytime very effectively.
So, which one is superior to the other regarding muscle growth, very much depends on the length of fasting, i think.
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby RRM » Wed 26 Jun 2013 11:08

After more than 3 months on Wai Warrior, i must conclude that its certainly doable.
My weight is still exactly the same as prior to Wai Warrior.
My energy intake is still consistently below the level of pre-Wai Warrior.
My strength has increased considerably, and so far keeps on increasing weekly. (had to buy heavier weights to circumvent excessive repetition)
Still take in 300 grams of fish / meat daily, after exercise at night.
I dont consume all the energy between 18.00 and 20.00 (when i go to bed), but also some (20 - 30%) in between sleep. (as my daughter does),
which makes it a lot easier to ingest all the required energy.
I will continue with this experiment.
dime
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby dime » Wed 26 Jun 2013 11:19

That's great to hear.
I'm slowly moving to this too, started for now by eating all the protein for dinner instead of splitting to breakfast and dinner. Then I'll slowly increase the fast period and move the feeding period closer and closer to dinner.
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby Nina75 » Wed 26 Jun 2013 20:28

Great, very happy for you and the proper functioning of your experience !

If I understand the Wai warrior is to consume nothing day, then 18h consume a lot of energy like juice followed by the fish / Yellow

In fact it is to consume that from 18h? But a lot of juice in the evening with fish? As we need them anyway ?

MRR : I dont consume all the energy between 18.00 and 20.00 (when i go to bed), but also some (20 - 30%) in between sleep. (as my daughter does),
which makes it a lot easier to ingest all the required energy.

I do not understand ?

How did you gain strength? This is incredible! Once home you drink the juice? With fish, and I've read that you can drink 1 liter of a sudden because basically the body craves .....?
overkees
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby overkees » Thu 27 Jun 2013 12:05

So... you're getting stronger with alot less energy? That's indicating some important feeding processes have been overlooked in the original wai diet.

Doesn't this just indicate that if you're hungry you're body already is making every step to optimize the uptake of nutrients, otherwise this would be impossible. If doing a normal wai diet, you basically flood your system with nutrients and it just takes what it needs and let's everything else just go through. But now, your body also gets to the catabolic processes and will do everything it can to increase its anabolic properties because it cannot lose anything. To me, this is a clear indication that this version of the wai diet is superior to the other. You recycle and optimize your own flow of energy and are less dependent of an external energy supply.

This must mean that your oxygenation is optimizing by having a bigger CO2 saturation. Have you measured your CP? How is your sleep? How many hours? Do you feel rested afterwards? Do you sleep longer or shorter than on the previous diet protocol? How are your digestion signs, i.e. do you have alot of your bowel moments with no stains on the toilet paper?
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RRM
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby RRM » Thu 27 Jun 2013 16:09

Nina75 wrote:If I understand the Wai warrior is to consume nothing day, then 18h consume a lot of energy like juice followed by the fish / Yellow
In fact it is to consume that from 18h? But a lot of juice in the evening with fish? As we need them anyway ?
Yes.
We only need juice and fish / yolks /meat.
I consume all that after 18.00.
Nina75 wrote:
RRM wrote:I dont consume all the energy between 18.00 and 20.00 (when i go to bed), but also some (20 - 30%) in between sleep. (as my daughter does),
which makes it a lot easier to ingest all the required energy.
I do not understand ?
Initially, i consumed all the food between 18.00 and 20.00
Now, i consume 70 to 80% of my food between 18.00 and 20.00, and the rest in between sleep.
As my daughter wakes me up during the night as she needs to drink something,
so do i (drink something).
How did you gain strength?
Through exercise :)
I drink much of the juice right after exercise, followed by the fish / meat / yolks and more juice.
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RRM
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby RRM » Thu 27 Jun 2013 16:16

overkees wrote:So... you're getting stronger with alot less energy? That's indicating some important feeding processes have been overlooked in the original wai diet.
Not feeding processes.
Autophagy.
This must mean that your oxygenation is optimizing by having a bigger CO2 saturation.
Must?
I think its very well explained by autophagy, dont you think?
Have you measured your CP?
No.
How is your sleep?
Perfect.
How many hours?
Actual sleep from about 21.00 to 05.30, but interrupted,
for drinking and depending on how many dipers i have to change.
Do you feel rested afterwards?
Yes, very much energetic.
Do you sleep longer or shorter than on the previous diet protocol?
The same.
How are your digestion signs
The same.
fred
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby fred » Sun 21 Jul 2013 08:32

300g salmon + 3L OJ = more than 80g protein.
Given that autophagy spares cells, you need less protein on Wai Warrior than on regular Wai.
So why so much protein ?
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby RRM » Sun 21 Jul 2013 16:14

Because prior and during autophagy, your body will also use muscle (considered a spare depot for protein) for energy.
Its multiple processes going on, including autophagy.
The bulking up at night needs to compensate for the catabolism during the day.
If you are okay with being skinny, you don't need as much protein though.
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby fred » Sun 21 Jul 2013 17:25

RRM wrote:Because prior and during autophagy, your body will also use muscle (considered a spare depot for protein) for energy.
Its multiple processes going on, including autophagy.
The bulking up at night needs to compensate for the catabolism during the day.
If you are okay with being skinny, you don't need as much protein though.
Is-it healthy to use more protein as an energy source? protein catabolism is less efficient for energy and generates urea.
dime
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby dime » Mon 22 Jul 2013 10:00

Yes autophagy is healthy as demonstrated by many studies.
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Emeira
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby Emeira » Fri 22 Nov 2013 13:46

Hi RRM,

Are you still doing Way warrior experiment?
What are changes in general health?
... I ask because I've been doing intermittent fasting (8/16) for 2 month now + weight lifting workouts (4 days per week). Two big meals per day (only raw food: fruits, yolks, herring). One meal before workout, next after workout.
Have noticed quite big changes: fat loss, nice body composition, muscle strength has increased. I am glad about that, but my question is: can this style of eating be harmful over the long term? mostly I eat 1500-2100 kcal.

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