Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Fasting during the morning and (some part of) the afternoon, eating at night
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RRM
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby RRM » Fri 22 Nov 2013 17:52

Emeira wrote:Are you still doing Way warrior experiment?
Yes.
What are changes in general health?
Ive always been healthy, so no changes there.
... I ask because I've been doing intermittent fasting (8/16) for 2 month now + weight lifting workouts (4 days per week). Two big meals per day (only raw food: fruits, yolks, herring). One meal before workout, next after workout.
At which times exactly?
can this style of eating be harmful over the long term?
Inducing autophagy has beneficial effects on your health, as it uses corrupted organelles for energy.
Eating a big meal can be harmful when your glycogen depots are already full (which is not the case after fasting)
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby Emeira » Fri 22 Nov 2013 22:05

RRM wrote:Ive always been healthy, so no changes there.
I wanted to ask, have you noticed (during the last month) any changes in strength, weight, energy level, mood and ect.
At which times exactly?
first meal 12:30 -1:00PM (800-1000 kcal.) and next 7:30 - 9:00PM (800-1000kcal.)
Eating a big meal can be harmful when your glycogen depots are already full (which is not the case after fasting)
How to know if my glycogen depots are full?
I guess there is nothing to worry about as long as i am losing fat and my strength increases? Right?
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby Emeira » Sat 23 Nov 2013 09:08

... or my weight stays the same.
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby Oscar » Tue 26 Nov 2013 15:09

I can see how this works with a regular schedule, but what if one's schedule varies, like getting up at 11am, the next day at 8am, and then 12am?
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby dime » Tue 26 Nov 2013 18:15

Just try to eat everything 2 hours before you go to sleep?
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby RRM » Wed 27 Nov 2013 11:21

Emeira wrote: I wanted to ask, have you noticed (during the last month) any changes in strength, weight, energy level, mood and ect.
My weight and strength has increased a bit more.
No changes in mood, energy level etc.
At which times exactly?
first meal 12:30 -1:00PM (800-1000 kcal.) and next 7:30 - 9:00PM (800-1000kcal.)
That's not good for autophagy.
Because every big meal replenishes your glycogen stores, so that you will rely on that glycogen first, before autophagy kicks in.
With this plan, there may only be some autophagy in the morning (or none).
None after the first meal, because then you have replenished your glycogen (and blood-glucose), and there is food in your stomach and intestines.
For autophagy, you would need to postpone your first meal as much as possible; closer towards your night meal.
For example: start eating at 16:00 or 17:00 until you go to bed.
So, not two big meals, but just one time window for eating.
And you can make that time window small (2 hours) or relatively large (4 or 5 hours) if that fits you better.
How to know if my glycogen depots are full?
Fasting empties your liver glycogen (400 kcal) and exercising empties your muscle glycogen (up to 1600 kcal).
I guess there is nothing to worry about as long as i am losing fat and my strength increases? Right?
Not necessarily.
Losing fat is the result of fat gain being smaller than fat loss.
Despite the fat loss, the fat gain may partially be the result of full glycogen stores at some point.
Strength increase is in no way protective.
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby RRM » Wed 27 Nov 2013 11:26

dime wrote:
Oscar wrote:I can see how this works with a regular schedule, but what if one's schedule varies, like getting up at 11am, the next day at 8am, and then 12am?
Just try to eat everything 2 hours before you go to sleep?
Exactly.
Even if in all cases you go to bed at midnight, only the amountof autophagy will differ.
waking up at 8am, there will be more autophagy than waking up at 12am. That's all.
And if 2 hours is a too small time window for you, just make it 3, 4 or 5 hours before you go to sleep.
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby Emeira » Wed 27 Nov 2013 13:04

RRM wrote:None after the first meal, because then you have replenished your glycogen (and blood-glucose), and there is food in your stomach and intestines.
but after (4-5 hours) from my first meal I do weight lifting workout, and only then comes my next meal. Does that change anything?
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby Emeira » Wed 27 Nov 2013 13:16

RRM wrote: Losing fat is the result of fat gain being smaller than fat loss
are you saying that, just because of big meals i can still gain fat, even having daily calorie deficit?

then i will start eating one time per day
... although two times is much more easier :(

by the way, do you have energy during fasted workout?
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby Oscar » Thu 28 Nov 2013 23:10

I might give it a shot in a few months :)
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby RRM » Sun 01 Dec 2013 15:03

Emeira wrote:
RRM wrote:None after the first meal, because then you have replenished your glycogen (and blood-glucose), and there is food in your stomach and intestines.
but after (4-5 hours) from my first meal I do weight lifting workout, and only then comes my next meal. Does that change anything?
No, not regarding autophagy (other than the autophagy directly evoked by exercise).
It doesn't change your metabolic status in between those meals,
as you exercise right before the second meal.
So, there will be very little autophagy in between the first and second meal.
Emeira wrote:
RRM wrote: Losing fat is the result of fat gain being smaller than fat loss
are you saying that, just because of big meals i can still gain fat, even having daily calorie deficit?
In theory, yes.
The increase in fat might come from autophagy and muscle volume.
Though if your strength has increased, the latter is unlikely.
then i will start eating one time per day
... although two times is much more easier :(
Of course, but only in the beginning, is my experience.
by the way, do you have energy during fasted workout?
Sure.
The fasting depletes your blood glucose and liver glycogen,
but not your muscle glycogen, as muscle glycogen cannot be converted back into glucose.
So, after various hours of autophagy, there is still plenty of energy in the muscles.
Actually, I perform better after having fasted than after a meal,
which is probably due to the fact that after a meal a lot of blood is directed to your digestive system,
instead of your muscles.
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby Emeira » Sun 01 Dec 2013 19:55

thanks for clarifying this, RRM
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby Nina75 » Mon 30 Dec 2013 00:11

In fact (it seems to me that you exercise every day) you start to drink a lot of juice once your fasting day is conducted successfully, followed by an intense bodybuilding exercise and you reward your body with this dint he claims most (with what he loves most): Fresh Juice, oil, and fish / yellow raw. Believed to be the man most healthy in the world ? I think yes

Two questions: You begin to eat 18h, just after sport or just before or even during your sport? Or you start to eat directly after sport? If you start drinking 18h agree that we can drink until sleep and even drink even if we wake up in the night it is ? I understand that it is the alarm clock or you stop eating, it is also allowed to drink water during the day? Small update because I will give it a try, I read good things about intermittent fasting.

thks
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby Nina75 » Mon 30 Dec 2013 00:21

Would it not be a good resolution for this new year, moving to normal Wai to Wai Warrior ..... I think you did well here explain the procedure, now I want to avoid at all costs weight loss but in view of the comments seems to be the opposite (more strength, not weight loss)

In addition to my above questions if you have any guidelines on this new version I'm listening to .... Not making mistakes and successfully accomplish this Warrior and especially avoid weight loss
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Re: Wai Warrior - for autophagy - AN EXPERIMENT

Postby RRM » Mon 30 Dec 2013 19:50

Nina75 wrote:Two questions: You begin to eat 18h, just after sport or just before or even during your sport?
Just after sport.
That's very much possible because fasting does not exhaust your muscle-glycogen stores, as muscle-glycogen cannot be converted into glucose.
So, yes, your liver glycogen will be empty, but your muscles will still contain lots of glycogen.
Of course, you need to make very sure to completely replenish your glycogen stores after exercise.
If you start drinking 18h agree that we can drink until sleep and even drink even if we wake up in the night it is ?
Yes.
During the evening and night you need to keep your body in an anabolic state, by supplying it lots of nutrients,
so that muscle repair and growth will be optimal.
I understand that it is the alarm clock or you stop eating
Usually my last drink is at about 04.00 in the morning (night), or before.
I get up at 06.00
it is also allowed to drink water during the day?
Absolutely.
Though I never do, as I get plenty of water from my juices (during the night).
I don't get thirsty during the day.
Nina75 wrote: I want to avoid at all costs weight loss but in view of the comments seems to be the opposite (more strength, not weight loss)
Yes.
Of course, you need to make very sure that you eat/drink enough during the night.
In the beginning that is difficult, because you are not used to such large intakes.
Its easy to take in too little energy, because you hardly notice the catabolic state during the day,
so that consuming a lot during the night seems 'unnecessary', but it certainly is not.
In the beginning you really need to 'force' yourself to eat/drink enough.
In addition to my above questions if you have any guidelines on this new version I'm listening to .... Not making mistakes and successfully accomplish this Warrior and especially avoid weight loss
Keep track of your weight on a daily basis, initially.
If your weight goes down, start eating sooner; eg at 15.00, 16.00 or 17.00 instead of 18.00
That's the easiest way to control your weight.
Building muscle is not a problem at all if your energy intake is big enough.
That is because now you will supply your body with really a lot of nutrients right after exercise and during the recovery / build up phase (during sleep).
So, your anabolic phase will be more anabolic than before.

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