Back for another try!

Fasting during the morning and (some part of) the afternoon, eating at night
djkvan
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Back for another try!

Post by djkvan »

Hi again everyone!

It has been just over three years since I last attempted the Wai Diet. I am an active 42 year old male, approximately 5'10" (178cm) and 170Lbs (77Kg). I work as an order puller in an organic produce warehouse on Canada's west coast. My job keeps me physically active all day and includes a wide range of motion which results in a fairly comprehensive use of muscle groups (and glycogen). I don't have a car so I generally bicycle everywhere to get around in the city. I am not prone to acne.

I am beginning with the Wai Warrior approach, but not 100% raw. I will be consuming only Tropicana orange juice with sugar and sashimi to begin. I do not tolerate egg yolk and OO gives me heartburn when combined with OJ, so no OO either. It is my intention to have two meals in quick succession at the end of the day - the first being OJ+sugar consumed over the course of a couple of hours; the second being sashimi consumed by itself no sooner than an hour after the OJ and no later than hour before lying down for bed.

I smoke cigarettes - less than a pack a day - and intend to stop or at least greatly reduce the habit.

@RRM...

I am thinking that consuming water throughout the day as needed will perhaps be beneficial to curb initial "vestigial" appetite? Also I am guessing that my nutritional needs, especially for protein (even carbs?), may be greater at the start. Thoughts?
I do so like green eggs and ham. Thank you, thank you. Sam I am.
djkvan
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Re: Back for another try!

Post by djkvan »

Okay... so it's my second day on the WWD (Wai Warrior Diet - so much easier to abbreviate, no?). Anyhow, my evening meal started out kinda interesting. I finished 1.5L OJ with 75g sugar in about 3 minutes or so. Most of the way through I almost didn't feel like drinking anymore, but then I burped and was able to finish the rest ;D . When I was done I could really feel my stomach expanding upward and putting putting pressure on my diaphragm and other organs. It took me a moment to realize what was causing me discomfort. Within a couple of minutes my stomach had emptied enough that the pain had receded to a dull ache. Now, a few minutes later the discomfort is almost gone. I wonder if the discomfort was from the stretch my stomach put on my diaphragm, the pressure my diaphragm put on my organs or both.

RRM... did you experience this sensation the first time you challenged your stomach with a big fill (e.g. 1.5L in two minutes as you said)?
I do so like green eggs and ham. Thank you, thank you. Sam I am.
djkvan
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Re: Back for another try!

Post by djkvan »

Day three and back to work for the first time in over a week. Last night's meal: 2.5L OJ (pasteurized) + 150g sugar drank over course of two hours in evening, followed by 300g sashimi an hour later. Bed an hour after that. Since I am quite active at work I am not sure how my muscle glycogen will hold out today, so am taking 1L OJ w/50g sugar as a backup.
I do so like green eggs and ham. Thank you, thank you. Sam I am.
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Oscar
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Re: Back for another try!

Post by Oscar »

Are you sure Tropicana is the most healthy choice you have?
djkvan
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Re: Back for another try!

Post by djkvan »

Hi Oscar. I don't think it matters for me at this point. This most recent attempt as Wai reconfirms that I don't tolerate saliclyates in food. When I consume OJ everything suddenly seems to glow, then I become hyper/agitated and have difficulty focusing. If I drink enough OJ in one sitting I get myoclonus and muscle cramps to the point that they will lock upon flexion. Also low/weak pulse. My eczema has flared in the last few days and my lips are scabbed and cracking as are my hands. My eyes are puffy with dark circles. My abdomen is tender and my bm's are mucousy. It takes me a couple of hours to finally fall asleep and when I do I get profuse head and neck sweats that smell terrible. This doesn't happen when I observe a low-salicylate diet. In spite of all this I have had good energy/strength at work the last couple of days, but today I recognized that my energy burst felt more like hyperactivity (if you haven't experienced this feeling think about how one who never drinks coffee might feel after having a few cups of coffee).

I went into this experience with eyes wide open, but know enough about my body not to pursue this course any further. After six months on Wai the first time around I was falling apart. I just thought that the Warrior approach made perfect sense and was worth a try in spite of the salicylate issue. If I were forced to adopt a Wai approach I would certainly choose the warrior version. I'll keep the sashimi though. Love it!
I do so like green eggs and ham. Thank you, thank you. Sam I am.
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Oscar
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Re: Back for another try!

Post by Oscar »

I mentioned it because Tropicana apparently has additives (e.g. orange taste) and it doesn't seem clear how much of it is actual orange juice and what else is in there. The micronutrient content is unclear, and since it's your only fruit source you will likely run into deficiency issues. So while it might be a salicylate issue, there are other possibilities as well.
djkvan
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Re: Back for another try!

Post by djkvan »

I've heard about the Tropicana thing. Can't verify. Regardless, it happens with fresh squeezed OJ too. When I eat cantaloupe I become very hyper/out of focus and within an hour or two all the skin on my forearms will be flaking off like after a bad sunburn (later diarrhea with whole pieces of cantaloupe - i.e. rejected). But cantaloupe is pretty high in salicylate. I avoid berries and their juices entirely. Pretty much all fruit and most veg/juices give me issues. Fresh tomato isn't that bad, but tomato juice/sauce... no way! Like I said very shortly after consumption everything suddenly seems to glow and I will feel a high with any info (i.e. conversation/TV audio) seeming to hit a wall in my brain so that I must repeat things to myself to comprehend as my mind can't process in real time at that point. Last time on Wai I was just sipping a little OJ at a time and so was just foggy and moody all the time with minor headache. When I stopped Wai I took two whole oranges one morning upon waking and my intestines went into violent spasm a few minutes later with headache and bad mood/focus for whole day. I think it's worth trying things twice around. I have now. That's enough for me :).

It's generally to do with sulfation issues and the phenol-sulfa transferase (PST) pathway, where phenols become problematic due to a failure at certain points in the cycle.
I do so like green eggs and ham. Thank you, thank you. Sam I am.
Kasper
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Re: Back for another try!

Post by Kasper »

Maybe you find this interesting:
http://www.toxinless.com/orange-juice
djkvan
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Re: Back for another try!

Post by djkvan »

Oh yeah, regarding the whole orange fruit versus OJ... oranges are very high in salicylate (2.39mg/100g) as compared to OJ (0.18mg/100g).
I do so like green eggs and ham. Thank you, thank you. Sam I am.
djkvan
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Joined: Thu 24 Jun 2010 17:13
Location: Vancouver, B.C. Canada

Re: Back for another try!

Post by djkvan »

Good info, Kasper. Doesn't change my particular issue, but appreciated nonetheless. I also cannot tolerate sulfites well and vinegar containing foods (e.g. condiments) give me real problems especially. When having dental procedures ($2000+ to correct enamel erosion from my previous Wai attempt) I have had tenderness/swelling for weeks afterward following freezing. Sulfites are used to preserve epinephrine in dental anaesthetics. When I requested a sulfite-free local anaesthetic (carbocaine I think) on a subsequent visit I had no problem.
I do so like green eggs and ham. Thank you, thank you. Sam I am.
djkvan
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Re: Back for another try!

Post by djkvan »

Salicylate sensitivity also causes blood sugar issues which would explain why I could never really read my energy levels previously on Wai (even after six months). Also for those who are worried about candida who think that a coated tongue is always thrush... it's also a symptom of salicylate issues. Seems to me like this could be helpful to those who are failing to have success on this diet... http://www.sswahs.nsw.gov.au/rpa/allerg ... foods.pdf‎

also... http://salicylatesensitivity.com
I do so like green eggs and ham. Thank you, thank you. Sam I am.
djkvan
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Joined: Thu 24 Jun 2010 17:13
Location: Vancouver, B.C. Canada

Re: Back for another try!

Post by djkvan »

@Oscar... the consistent taste in Tropicana is due to the addition of orange oil. Orange oil has a high salicylate level. It is extracted from the peel and blended in to maintain consistency of flavour, so again this makes it worse for me than fresh pressed, but still the same issue remains. Regardless of whether or not the oranges are perfectly ripe they contain enough salicylate to make them a poor choice for me, so, due to the intestinal irritation which salicylate originates for me, there will still be malabsorption leading to nutrient deficiencies in the long term. The most inconvenient symptoms for me are neurological in nature. They can interfere with my ability to self-regulate, maintain relationships and employment unless I am able to effectively manage them through a low-salicylate dietary approach.
I do so like green eggs and ham. Thank you, thank you. Sam I am.
djkvan
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Re: Back for another try!

Post by djkvan »

Two days on my personal version of the warrior approach have been quite remarkable. ADHD and autism generally have something in common and should be conceived of as parts of the same spectrum, in my opinion. I observe a regimen which respects my biochemical shortcomings (so, appropriate for me) while integrating the warrior approach. My list of compatible foods are low-salicylate, low-phenol, low-oxalate and low thiol. I continue to use tobacco (moderately) and coffee (once daily) to ameliorate my sluggish hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenocortical axis issue (not mentioned earlier, but part of the whole ADHD thing). My allowable food list includes:

sashimi (high in b6 which inhibits sulfation, but contains high levels of omega-3 which can be beneficial for this issue in the long term)
Iceberg lettuce
Celery
white bread - no additives
white pasta
white rice
lentils (red/brown)
peas (split/dried)
pears (peeled)
potato (boiled/baked/chips)
butter
cheese (no additives)
sunflower seeds?
sugar - brown, castor, granulated, icing, powdered)
maple syrup? (sulfites)
sea salt
canola/safflower/soy oil (not preferred)
water
vodka/budweiser (low hops/phenol) - (for fun time)
coffee (one a day in morning only)

Ultimately I am against supplementation, but a supplement regimen from a compounding pharmacy might ultimately be necessary. I have read that magnesium sulcate cream and epsom salt baths along with phenol-assist can aid in sulfation issues, but I am not overly hopeful as generally these issues have more to due with inborn weaknesses. Still I'm open to experimentation as always. Feel free to file me under "non-Wai forever (for now :wink: ).

David
I do so like green eggs and ham. Thank you, thank you. Sam I am.
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RRM
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Re: Back for another try!

Post by RRM »

djkvan wrote:RRM... did you experience this sensation the first time you challenged your stomach with a big fill (e.g. 1.5L in two minutes as you said)?
I did feel discomfort from filling up my stomach so much, which i hadnt done for a long time,
but i didnt feel like throwing up.
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RRM
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Re: Back for another try!

Post by RRM »

djkvan wrote:I am thinking that consuming water throughout the day as needed will perhaps be beneficial to curb initial "vestigial" appetite?
Actually, that may keep your appetite 'alive' ('stomach hunger'), as it seems to be the shrinking of the stomach after having been stretched that triggers some kind of 'wanting to eat' signal.
Once your stomach is 'at rest', it will not bother you anymore. (at least in my case)
I am guessing that my nutritional needs, especially for protein (even carbs?), may be greater at the start. Thoughts?
Protein, maybe, yes, because more muscle protein may be converted into energy during the day,
which needs to be compensated for during the night.
But carbs, no. From the start (of WW) i needed less total energy, which is due to getting more energy from autophagy (more recycling of cell parts instead of rebuilding whole cells).
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