JeffC the extreme ninja warrior

Fasting during the morning and (some part of) the afternoon, eating at night
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Espirito
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Re: JeffC the extreme ninja warrior

Post by Espirito »

Many thanks jeff.

Thanks to you, i will put some modifications in mine, ( I will try to remove frutose )
Maybe i have the same issue!

Do you still notice anything with the carbs from other foods?
Bad digestion, or you still have good digestion with carbs?
Potatoes for example?

And how about the avocado? Do you still have digestion problems?
JeffC
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Re: JeffC the extreme ninja warrior

Post by JeffC »

Espirito wrote:Do you still notice anything with the carbs from other foods?
Bad digestion, or you still have good digestion with carbs?
Potatoes for example?

And how about the avocado? Do you still have digestion problems?
Avocado? I don't eat avocado.

Anyway, fructose (fruit sugar) has to be metabolized by the liver and causes health problems (http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/publish/news/newsroom/6854).
Starch (from potatoes) is glucose units chained together.
Dextrose is glucose.

Since potatoes and dextrose are just glucose, they don't give me the problems I had with fructose. The potatoes and dextrose aren't the same though. Enzymes have to break down the starch into glucose. And each potato has 2.4 g of fiber. Some people have difficulty digesting starchy foods (bloating, etc). You can eat too much starchy food... I've found that 4 potatoes per day may be a little too much for me; 3 potatoes per day is better.

The problem with potatoes from a Wai perspective is that they have to be heated to nearly 100°C. But it's only 7.5-10 g of protein. Acrylamide does not form at this low temperature. HCAs also are not an issue (low temperature and not muscle meat). I don't see a problem with it.

Muscle meats (fish especially) are rich in vitamin B2, B3, B5, B6, B12, E, iron, phosphorous, zinc, selenium.
Non-muscle animal food (yolk/liver/bone) provides vitamin A, B9, D, K, calcium.
Potatoes/tubers are a perfect complement to animals because they are rich in vitamin C, B1, B3, B5, B6, magnesium, potassium, copper, manganese.

With just those few foods, you get every nutrient. I'm no longer a believer in fruit. This article is one example that argues that tubers fueled human evolution: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/19 ... 064914.htm
Espirito
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Re: JeffC the extreme ninja warrior

Post by Espirito »

Thanks for the details.

Unfortunately i can't give up fruits yet.
Need to do more trials to be sure, that is the frutose, like you that tires me, and give me bad things.

Eggs my body doesn't like it, and olive my body doesn't like it to.
Fish and meat i don't eat, because i'm vegetarian, so i'm limited with options.

Only potatoes and fruits.
It's very nice that you discover this, and everything will work know!

Thanks for sharing the link and again the details!
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Aytundra
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AGEs

Post by Aytundra »

JeffC wrote: And each potato has 2.4 g of fiber. Some people have difficulty digesting starchy foods (bloating, etc). You can eat too much starchy food... I've found that 4 potatoes per day may be a little too much for me; 3 potatoes per day is better.
Have you tried potato starch (powder format) ?
Maybe, potato fiber is the limiting reactant in your potato intake.
JeffC wrote: Muscle meats (fish especially) are rich in vitamin B2, B3, B5, B6, B12, E, iron, phosphorous, zinc, selenium.
Non-muscle animal food (yolk/liver/bone) provides vitamin A, B9, D, K, calcium.
Potatoes/tubers are a perfect complement to animals because they are rich in vitamin C, B1 ...
But if you cooked potatoes, boiled them in water at ~100C, you will lose a good amount of these vitamins, and vitamin C or B1 does not seem abundant in your other foods.
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Aytundra
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JeffC

Post by Aytundra »

JeffC wrote:-I discovered conclusively that my lifelong digestive problems were caused by fructose.
I disagree, I don't think you can "conclusively" say that your lifelong digestive problems were caused by "fructose".
You can only say that "JeffC is 'very likely' intolerant of fructose".

From your journal, I can only believe that JeffC reacts negatively to:
- pasteurized orange juice {fructose might be affected by pasteurization heated}
- sugar (assuming: sugar = granulated sugar = sucrose = glucose-fructose) {either fructose problem or sugar volume problem}

and reacts well to eating:
- dextrose
- potatoes (but limited at 4 potatoes)

The 4 potatoes, means you might either have a fiber problem, or you might still have a sugar problem but with glucose;
if it is the latter, it might mean a "volume" issue with sugar;
i.e. too much glucose, and/or too much fructose, and/or too much sucrose, is too much for JeffC to handle.

Only if you tested yourself against pure fructose, and get a negative reaction in you, then can you "conclusively" say "fructose is bad in JeffC".

If you were to test yourself against pure fructose, you will have to make sure that the source is fructose, and not heated fructose (which might have hydroxymethylfurfural HMF). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxymethylfurfural
And from that same link I find these two quotes might be important:
wikipedia wrote:HMF is practically absent in fresh food, but it is naturally generated in sugar-containing food during heat-treatments like drying or cooking. Along with many other flavor- and color-related substances, HMF is formed in the Maillard reaction as well as during caramelization. In these foods it is also slowly generated during storage. Acid conditions favour generation of HMF.[13] HMF is a well known component of baked goods. Upon toasting bread, the amount increases from 14.8 (5 min.) to 2024.8 mg/kg (60 min).[2]
Maybe JeffC should test with real orange juice.
wikipedia wrote: and the codex alimentarius standard requires that honey have less than 40 mg/kg HMf to guarantee that the honey has not undergone heating during processing, except for tropical honeys which must be below 80 mg/kg.
Looks like: "tropical" honey (tropical as in 'hot' climates), are given some 'leniency', this means that naturally heated sugars, could naturally have more HMF.
Maybe JeffC should test if he likes tropical vs. not tropical fruits.
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JeffC
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Re: JeffC the extreme ninja warrior

Post by JeffC »

Aytundra wrote:I disagree, I don't think you can "conclusively" say that your lifelong digestive problems were caused by "fructose".
You can only say that "JeffC is 'very likely' intolerant of fructose".
The 4 potatoes, means you might either have a fiber problem, or you might still have a sugar problem but with glucose;
When I said that 4 potatoes is 'too much,' I meant only that I felt satiated at that point. I don't have the problem with potatoes that I do with fruits. I just feel that 3 potatoes is the right amount for me, in balance with everything else. I could have more if I really wanted to.

I store the potatoes in the dark at room temperature, which is about 30°C.

Also, I've taken 20 tablespoons of dextrose all at once and had no problems with it.
Aytundra wrote:If you were to test yourself against pure fructose, you will have to make sure that the source is fructose, and not heated fructose
I've had plenty of other fruits besides OJ, like prunes, raisins, bananas, etc. The strawberries and dates were certainly raw, and my body reacts the same way with them. (Negatively.)
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Aytundra
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Re: JeffC the extreme ninja warrior

Post by Aytundra »

JeffC wrote:
Aytundra wrote:If you were to test yourself against pure fructose, you will have to make sure that the source is fructose, and not heated fructose
I've had plenty of other fruits besides OJ, like prunes, raisins, bananas, etc. The strawberries and dates were certainly raw, and my body reacts the same way with them. (Negatively.)
My point is "raw" is nothing; "tropical" honey naturally has more hydroxyfurfural than normal honey

OJ, fructose + pasteurization (heat) -->
orange/ oj (raw), fructose + tropical fruit (heat) -->
prunes, raisins, dates (raw) --> fructose + drying (heat) -->
bananas --> fructose + tropical fruit (heat) -->
strawberries? you probably ate the whole strawberry without peeling fruit membrane that was exposed to sunlight (heat) -->

Do you tolerate "peeled" fresh plums, fresh grapes? Not prunes or raisins.
-----
I still think fructose is innocent. Then I look at the study JeffC posted... I'm reading, reading...
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JeffC
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Re: JeffC the extreme ninja warrior

Post by JeffC »

Aytundra wrote:Do you tolerate "peeled" fresh plums, fresh grapes?
I've had fresh grapes as well, they are just as problematic.
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Emeira
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Re: JeffC the extreme ninja warrior

Post by Emeira »

Jeffic, (according Weston A. Price diet) what food is best for general human health? how your daily menu looks like?
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Aytundra
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Re: JeffC the extreme ninja warrior

Post by Aytundra »

JeffC wrote:
Aytundra wrote:Do you tolerate "peeled" fresh plums, fresh grapes?
I've had fresh grapes as well, they are just as problematic.
Grins. Okay you have nearly convinced Aytundra to believe that JeffC does not tolerate the fructose that is attached with glucose.

But, I am still slightly confused, because you wrote:
JeffC wrote: Potatoes, boiled, cooked in skin, flesh, without salt
Total Carbohydrate 27.4 g
Sugars 1.2 g
Sucrose 258 mg
Glucose 503 mg
Fructose 408 mg
Total Fat 0.1g
Potatoes have Fructose?
Does JeffC like his boiled potatoes? and does he have reactions to them?
Does JeffC think potatostarch would be better?, assuming the starch are chains of glucose and not with fructose?
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fred
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Re: JeffC the extreme ninja warrior

Post by fred »

What will you do when you will find that high intake of saturat fat is not good at all for your health ?

(By the Way, Weston Price never advocates a diet high in saturat fat, as he wrote a letter to his nieces and nephews, instructing them in the diet he hoped they would eat. "The basic foods should be the entire grains such as whole wheat, rye or oats, whole wheat and rye breads, wheat and oat cereals, oat-cake, dairy products, including milk and cheese, which should be used liberally, and marine foods.")

Weston Price died of a heart attack at age 68, Stephen Byrnes died of a stroke at age 41, Mary Enig died of a stroke at 82 and Sally fallon is now fat...
Hum, saturat fat...
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Emeira
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Re: JeffC the extreme ninja warrior

Post by Emeira »

fred wrote: saturat fat is not good at all for your health
i think, when high temperature is involved, only then saturated fats are bad choice. Coconut contains even more saturated fat than butter does, but that doesn't make it unhealthy (as long as it's raw).
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RRM
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Re: JeffC the extreme ninja warrior

Post by RRM »

The discussion about the formation of AGEs has been split off to here:
http://www.waitalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3621
JeffC
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Re: JeffC the extreme ninja warrior

Post by JeffC »

Emeira wrote:Jeffic, (according Weston A. Price diet) what food is best for general human health? how your daily menu looks like?
I would say that the Price diet emphasizes natural foods that are high in fat-soluble vitamins (A, D, E, K2) and essential minerals, because they aid dental health (and overall health). Seafood, meats, liver, egg yolks, grass-fed butter. Coconut or olive oil as well. None of those foods violate Wai rules if they haven't been overheated.

My macros are 60% fat, 20% protein, 20% carb. My exact diet:

150 g fish or lobster
150 g tomato
544 g potato flesh
1 tbsp butter
448 g ground beef
56 g chicken liver
51 g egg yolk
1 tbsp coconut oil

2500-2600 calories. All of which is eaten in 3 hours, followed by 21 hours of fasting.
Aytundra wrote:Potatoes have Fructose?
Does JeffC like his boiled potatoes? and does he have reactions to them?
Does JeffC think potatostarch would be better?, assuming the starch are chains of glucose and not with fructose?
Yes, but it's a very small amount of fructose. 0.4 g of fructose in one potato is less than in 3 raisins. I haven't noticed any problems with potatoes.
I love the potatoes; I stopped dextrose after my supply ran out, so I went up from 3 to 4 potatoes.
I don't see the big deal with potato starch. Isn't it for baking purposes? Potato starch costs US$5.78 for 2240 calories. 20 lb of potatoes costs US$5.56 for 7248 calories.
fred wrote:Weston Price died of a heart attack at age 68, Stephen Byrnes died of a stroke at age 41, Mary Enig died of a stroke at 82 and Sally fallon is now fat... Hum, saturat fat...
Weston Price didn't publish Nutrition and Physical Degeneration until he was 69, based on the research he did in his 60s.
My understanding is that health problems previously blamed on saturated fats are actually caused by trans fats.
RRM wrote:The discussion about the formation of AGEs has been split off to here:
http://www.waitalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3621
What I wrote about 6 years of perfect discipline on the Wai diet destroying my health has mysteriously disappeared.
Because it doesn't fit the Wai dogma.
"This diet is for everyone, except JeffC."
Kasper
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Re: JeffC the extreme ninja warrior

Post by Kasper »

Weston Price also recommands around 1500 mg of calcium daily. That surely doesn't go hand in hand with the Wai diet.
So what are your thoughts about that ?
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