Muscle-mass, working out, testosterone and acne

How to prevent unwanted weightloss, and/or even gain muscles
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RRM
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Post by RRM »

fictor wrote:The increased effectiveness might be just due to variation though, and thereby not mean that 10x10 are better than 2xfailure, but rather that one should alternate these two.
True, but on the other hand, if you think about it, with this method; if you give your mucles time to recover in between reps, and in the end you also train until failure, there may be more of a volume boost, simply because the total of energy used in this training method is much larger. Its not a 2-times exercise until failure, but a 10-times exercise until eventual failure, so that both capacity and recovery are trained, instead of just 'capacity'; as if you are not only training strength, but also 'spare strength', which may create more volume.
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fictor wrote: Jogging: I know jogging is not ideal for losing weight, but what about if one wants to get overall more muscle and better stamina, and actually do not care if one gains a few kilos? Is jogging a testosterone-boosting workout, like say heavy weight lifting?
No. Jogging is associated with a 'low-testosterone posture'.
Just take a look at professional athletes; anyone specialised in running more than 800 meters has a low muscle volume.
what about if one wants to get overall more muscle and better stamina
Those are conflicting goals, unless you train your stamina by working on your muscle volume.
Jogging is not working on your muscle volume.
If you, on the other hand, are doing your exercises for increasing muscle volume, and you do them all in one session, then you are also working on your stamina.
Nevertheless, its always a compromise.
Swimming: What about swimming? Would it cause testosterone levels to rise very high? I am thinking of semi intensive swimming for maybe 10-20 mins.

And what about riding a bike (medium intensive)? This could be an effective way to train my legs and stamina, but would it cause a testosterone boost?
Again, as they are 'medium intensive', they conflict with the 'high testosterone'.
If however, you perform all high-intensive exercises right after each other, there is a stamina gain with the minimum of conflict.
Boxing (on a punching bag): I used to box a few years ago, and still enjoys to hit the bag a little. Would a few intensive minutes of hard hitting be a testo-booster?
Yes, because its high-intensive.
Intensive running intervals (in stairs or uphill). This is an effective way to train your heart and your legs, but would this cause testosterone to skyrocket?
I dont think so, unless every stage involves only 20 secs max.
Could one train say front, middle and back shoulder in one day, or would this cause a testosterone boost?
I think so.
what about exercises such as push ups or bench press, targeting both pecs, triceps and front shoulder. Is this to many muscles?
Not if you also want to build stamina; then its a compromise between targetting and stamina.
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Post by fictor »

RRM wrote: Nevertheless, its always a compromise.
I think the word "stamina" is perhaps right here. I am talking about what we call "kondisjon" here in Norway. I am talking about better capasity to take up oxygen, a better capillary network and ability to cope with lactic acid. I do not mean stamina as in the ability to lift a weight very many times.
fictor wrote:What about swimming? Would it cause testosterone levels to rise very high? I am thinking of semi intensive swimming for maybe 10-20 mins.
And what about riding a bike (medium intensive)? This could be an effective way to train my legs and stamina, but would it cause a testosterone boost?
RRM wrote: Again, as they are 'medium intensive', they conflict with the 'high testosterone'.
Are you saying that swimming and/or bike riding (medium intensity) would cause a testosterone-boost or not? (English is not mine or yours mother language, thats why I am unsure exactly what your answer means, I think) :)
fictor wrote:Intensive running intervals (in stairs or uphill). This is an effective way to train your heart and your legs, but would this cause testosterone to skyrocket?
RRM wrote: I dont think so, unless every stage involves only 20 secs max.
So if I run for say 1-2 mins, it would be ok?


fictor wrote:Could one train say front, middle and back shoulder in one day, or would this cause a testosterone boost?
RRM wrote: I think so.
Sorry, I have to ask again to be sure: Would it cause a raise in testosterone levels or not?
fictor wrote:what about exercises such as push ups or bench press, targeting both pecs, triceps and front shoulder. Is this to many muscles?
RRM wrote: Not if you also want to build stamina; then its a compromise between targeting and stamina.
These types of exercises is not for stamina. I know the work for building muscle volume, but would doing say 2 sets of 25-35 push ups for pecs, triceps and front shoulder training cause a testosterone boost big enough for causing water retention and acne?
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Post by RRM »

fictor wrote: I am talking about what we call "kondisjon" here in Norway.
ah, okay :) in dutch we call it "conditie".
Im a Frisian (mixture of english, german, norwegian and dutch), and we call it "kondisje".
I am talking about better capasity to take up oxygen, a better capillary network and ability to cope with lactic acid. I do not mean stamina as in the ability to lift a weight very many times.
Actually, the above are the same. Its just that the kondisjon you are referring to is generally about the stamina to keep running, biking or swimming for a long time. But technically, the ability to keep lifting those weights falls in the same category (good oxygen uptake capacity, capillary network and lactic acid reversal)
And if we talk about kondisjon, it may be testosterone-boosting exercises (intensive interval) that gave you that kondisjon, or non-testosterone-boosting exercises.
Are you saying that swimming and/or bike riding (medium intensity) would cause a testosterone-boost or not?
Not.
So if I run for say 1-2 mins, it would be ok?
Yes, the longer, the 'safer'.


fictor wrote:Would it cause a raise in testosterone levels or not?
you can train them all and not have a testosterone boost, or you can have the testosterone boost; it really depends on HOW you train those muscle groups; with what level of intensity.
fictor wrote:..These types of exercises is not for stamina.
Its a matter of semantics, i guess.
If the number of repetitions is big enough, you are working on the stamina of those muscles. But, for 'kondisjon', no :)
I know the work for building muscle volume, but would doing say 2 sets of 25-35 push ups for pecs, triceps and front shoulder training cause a testosterone boost big enough for causing water retention and acne?
Im sorry, but that depends on the intensity; in this case: how much weight do you push?
You can do them very intensively, so as to build big muscles. The more intense (more weight, more explosive), the bigger the testosterone boost.
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Post by fictor »

Thank you so much for all your answers and your input, RRM :)

I still have more to ask, though :)

1. Could you explain me, or perhaps show me an article that does, the "mechanics" behind testosterone causing water retention?

I mean, with protein or salt, it is easy to understand. The protein/salt molecules ends up in the skin and they rettain extra water. But with testosterone, is it the same? Like testosterone molecules floating around in your body, attraacting water? Or is it more like the testosterone "tells" the cells in the skin to rettain more water than they usually do?

2. Either way; how long does this effect last? I mean, if doing 10x10 of say biceps curl does not cause a testosterone boost big enough to cause any serious water retention, how long must one wait before it is safe to do say 10x10 of leg curls? What I mean is this: Can one train one muscle early in the morning, one in the early afternoon and one in the evening?

3. And would it be "better", testosterone wise, to do 10x10 triceps kickbacks in the morning, 10x10 front shoulder lifts in the afternoon and 10x10pec deck/flies in the evening, than to do 10x10 push ups/bench press at any time in the day?
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Post by RRM »

fictor wrote:1. Could you explain me, or perhaps show me an article that does, the "mechanics" behind testosterone causing water retention?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1582 ... d_RVDocSum

There is a direct effect, probably through sodium retention.
And there may also be an indirect effect, via Growth hormone, by testosterone, or by its metabolite estradiol.
I dont know what the 'mechanics' are, however.
It may be by influenceing the hormones controlling fluid retention. (vasopressin, cortisol etc)
2. Either way; how long does this effect last?
Im sorry, i dont know...
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Post by fictor »

Ok, the last few weeks I have been doing 2-3 exercises every day, like today i did front shoulders in the early morning (10x10) and now I am going to the gym to do a rowing exercise for my back (10x10).

For a while, it went ok, but then, last week, I got a little more acne than usually. I usually only get a little acne on my back/shoulders, and some very small bumps and/or blackheads in my face, but now I got 3-4 small-medium sized pimples in my face. Now, a few days after I am back to "noraml", even a little better, it seems.

So for now I will continue to do 2-3 exercises a day, as this clearly make med add more muscle than just 1 exercise every day.

I suggest you try it out, RRM! :)
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Post by RRM »

So for now I will continue to do 2-3 exercises a day, as this clearly make med add more muscle than just 1 exercise every day.

I suggest you try it out, RRM! :)
I did that when i was 24. Its time consuming!
Also, you may give your body too little time to recover. When i did this, in the beginning i gained muscle weight (I guess because of the initial 'shock' ),
but after a while (half a year, i think) i reached a plateau, went down, and eventually even lost weight compared to my previous training regime.
Then i started training only 3 times a week, and i gained the weight back on again...
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Post by fictor »

RRM wrote:
So for now I will continue to do 2-3 exercises a day, as this clearly make med add more muscle than just 1 exercise every day.

I suggest you try it out, RRM! :)
I did that when i was 24. Its time consuming!
Also, you may give your body too little time to recover. When i did this, in the beginning i gained muscle weight (I guess because of the initial 'shock' ),
but after a while (half a year, i think) i reached a plateau, went down, and eventually even lost weight compared to my previous training regime.
Then i started training only 3 times a week, and i gained the weight back on again...
But now you train every day, right?

I still only train one muscle(group) once every week, do you really think that is too short a time to recover?

I actually cut it down to two exercises each day now, and I am doing fine so far. Noticeably more muscle growth, but now increase in acne :)
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Post by RRM »

fictor wrote: But now you train every day, right?
Yes, that (3x/wk) was many years ago, when i still went to the gym
Since about 10 years i always train at home, once a day.
However, for the last 3 months it has been extremely busy at work; me (really) running around 10 hours a day, so that i have no energy / recovery capacity left to train more than twice a week. Im expecting to go back to my normal regime in the winter, though.
I still only train one muscle(group) once every week, do you really think that is too short a time to recover?
Ah, no then its okay, as long as you feel strong / energetic.
I actually cut it down to two exercises each day now, and I am doing fine so far. Noticeably more muscle growth, but now increase in acne :)
ahh, not so nice (the acne)...
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Post by fictor »

Sorry, I meant NO acne, not NOW acne! :P

Haha, that "came out wrong"!

I now train one muscle(group) in the morning and one in the afternoon/evening, and it seems to add more muscle, but NO acne, was what I meant to say :)
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Post by RRM »

ha ha, ok, good for you!! :D
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Post by Jodiat »

Maybe your guys are on to somthing. Testosterone is going to be its highest with the heaviest weight used, which leds to lower reps naturally.

But wouldnt Tesosterone level off with adapting to the weight?

Say you squat 80kg every week for 2 months. 3 times 5 reps every week. Then by the end of 2 months your legs have now grown to its limits with 80kg. I reckon if you have a testosterone map the biggest increases will be in the 1st month and the second month there would be minimal spikes?
Couldnt we just change the way we workout like RRM has done, but still using heavy weights, but only changing reps when we easily out grow it?
The way ive always lifted is each week lift a little heavier...this would always keep testosterone levels on the up.
OR maybe if we find a weight that we can do 10*10 fairly easy and each week add a smaller ammount say 0.5kg this can give use a structure and keep testosterone down? because the extra weight is so small its not impacting testosterone as much?

Forgive me if this is already being used - im just thinking outloud.
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Post by RRM »

Jodiat wrote:But wouldnt Tesosterone level off with adapting to the weight?
Yes, to an extend, but you also simply need more testosterone to sustain more muscle volume.
Say you squat 80kg every week for 2 months. 3 times 5 reps every week. Then by the end of 2 months your legs have now grown to its limits with 80kg. I reckon if you have a testosterone map the biggest increases will be in the 1st month and the second month there would be minimal spikes?
I agree with the first part, but im afraid it will require more than minimal spikes to sustain muscle volume.
im just thinking outloud.
ha ha, we all do!
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Post by Jodiat »

ok, thanks and noted.
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