carbo-loading and glycogen...

How to prevent unwanted weightloss, and/or even gain muscles
martianwarrior
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carbo-loading and glycogen...

Post by martianwarrior »

what is the best low-protein food for filling up your glycogen stores to be wasted over a period of about an hour?

avocado?... brazil nuts?...

how much?

training jiu-jitsu doesn't allow for taking many sipping breaks. i'd rather just let my blood sugar drop and let the glycogen release.

...i suppose it doesn't have to be low protein but i've seem to become more susceptible to acne since training harder and for longer. so keeping protein low during the day will help me keep track of my overall consumption and figuring out whether the bits of acne are due to testosterone or too much protein... perhaps it's just a sign that i'm still in the earlier stages of detox?


any ideas are welcome.

thanks!
:)
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Re: carbo-loading and glycogen...

Post by RRM »

martianwarrior wrote:what is the best low-protein food for filling up your glycogen stores to be wasted over a period of about an hour?

avocado?... brazil nuts?...
Avocado contains too much fiber (= too heavy) and Brazil nuts are quite high in protein.
Actually, all juices are perfect, and sugar water.
And whole fruits to a much lesser extend (higher in fiber).
When i was working out a lot, and intensively, i used sugar water.
Now i would use juice with a lot of sugar added.
perhaps it's just a sign that i'm still in the earlier stages of detox?
Detox?
The release of stored toxins (from bodyfat) doesnt cause acne.
So, it might be hormone/exercise related, indeed.
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Post by martianwarrior »

so basically, if i just make sure my sipping is overlapping my energy needs i should store up enough glycogen for when my blood sugar drops?

for example... typically sipping juice every 20 minutes is enough to just sustain energy levels. so, sipping every 12-15 minutes an hour before a long session should be enough to store up glycogen.

sound about right?



how much sugar do you add to a liter of juice RRM? i usually add about 40-50 grams and a TBSP or less of olive oil.
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Post by RRM »

martianwarrior wrote: sound about right?
Yes. Basically, you need a steady influx of sugars that is bigger than your
direct need for sugars.
Try to find the right intake, as your body will protest when its too much.
(at once)
how much sugar do you add to a liter of juice RRM? i usually add about 40-50 grams and a TBSP or less of olive oil.
Well, when its going to be a very busy day for me,
running around like a madman all day,
I have to do it to the max: 540 grams (!) per 3 L. OJ :shock:
(270 grams per 1.5L bottle, or 180 gram / L)
to get enough energy. (and one TBSP oo, indeed)

When im off, its far less though.
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Post by martianwarrior »

cool, that helps a lot. i was definitely being shy with adding sugar.

thanks
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Post by RRM »

Do what feels right for your body.
Pay close attention to your blood energy levels,
and adjust your intake (frequency) accordingly.
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Post by martianwarrior »

how much glycogen can the liver hold?

is it possible for your liver to become completely full of glycogen?

if so... does your liver then just start releasing glycogen even if your blood sugar is up?
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Post by RRM »

martianwarrior wrote:how much glycogen can the liver hold?
About 400 kcal.
Plus 1200 kcal in the muscles.
is it possible for your liver to become completely full of glycogen?
All 400?
Yes.
if so... does your liver then just start releasing glycogen even if your blood sugar is up?
No, your body will just not store additional glycogen in the liver.
Only in the muscles.
And once these are full too, additional glucose will be converted into glycerol and fatty acids and stored as triglycerides in your fat depots.
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Post by martianwarrior »

a few more questions about glycogen...

we already sort of touched on some of these things in another thread recently in the animal food section, but i'd like to reiterate my questions a bit more specifically.


this may be difficult to answer, since everyone has different nutritional needs. but just do your best to give me an idea or a way to figure this out.

approximately how many calories, calories in carbs or calories of sugars would i have to consume before training in order to completely fill up my liver and muscles with glycogen?
i just want to see if it all gets wasted during the first session, which lasts one hour. sometimes i train for only on hour, sometimes for two or more. i usually have an hour break in between and i sip juice to fill me back up.
most of the time, at the end of the night it seems as though i have enough glycogen to last me till i fall asleep. sometimes i don't. it's possible that i'm being tricked into thinking glycogen is still releasing and the protein i consume is not all being absorbed for reconstruction. i could go on about other ways this is confusing me, but i'll stop there.


question # 2...

if at the end of a workout i feel like glycogen is still being released and i consume protein, will the glycogen suffice to keep the protein from being used for energy?

# 3

would sipping more juice as oppose to eating a lot do a better job of not spiking the blood sugar too high and limiting insulin, or is the danger of doing so equal with both?

# 4

i've been experimenting with energy management, eating or sipping only fruit without fat an hour or two before training so that i don't have fat lagging in my bloodstream, holding back the release of glycogen. is that unnecessary?


thank you ahead of time for helping me understand all of this :D
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Post by RRM »

martianwarrior wrote: approximately how many calories, calories in carbs or calories of sugars would i have to consume before training in order to completely fill up my liver and muscles with glycogen?
Its the extra energy that will be stored as glycogen.
So, when you eat according to your energy needs, no glycogen will be stored.
This means that you need to consume 1200 kcal on top of the normal energy that you need
to completely fill up your empty muscle glycogen depots.
And you cannot do that in just one hour or so prior to exercise.
When you work out intensively daily, you already need to start replenishing lost glycogen
right after exercise, and continue to do so until your next training session.
Simply because it takes time to ingest all those 1200 kcal.

Suppose your exercises are less extensive than 1200 kcal,
then it would be a great help to measure your actual energy expenditure,
and there are a lot of great tools available for that purpose.
Then you know exactly how much to consume extra.
it seems as though i have enough glycogen to last me till i fall asleep. sometimes i don't. it's possible that i'm being tricked
Thats certainly possible, as adrenaline is a powerful drug;
it keeps you going even when you have no more glycogen left.
It simply makes you use protein for energy.
if at the end of a workout i feel like glycogen is still being released and i consume protein, will the glycogen suffice to keep the protein from being used for energy?
The liver glycogen is probably already used up, and muscle glycogen cannot do the trick .
(cannot be converted back into glucose)
Its best to first undo the effects of the adrenalin,
and its most effective to use glucose for this purpose.
Then the blood sugar will go up, and the secretion of adrenaline will get inhibited.
Only then its time to consume protein.
So, first consume more juice.
would sipping more juice as oppose to eating a lot do a better job of not spiking the blood sugar too high and limiting insulin, or is the danger of doing so equal with both?
The bigger the meal, the bigger the spike will be.
Keeping your blood sugar up all the time by drinking juice (or eating)
constantly is safer, and effective.
i've been experimenting with energy management, eating or sipping only fruit without fat an hour or two before training so that i don't have fat lagging in my bloodstream, holding back the release of glycogen. is that unnecessary?
Fat does not hold back the utilization of glycogen directly,
but it does inhibit adrenaline secretion, which may make you less aggressive in your work out.
So, yes its a good idea.

You are welcome,
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Post by martianwarrior »

it would be a great help to measure your actual energy expenditure,
and there are a lot of great tools available for that purpose.
some sort of electronic device that can measure how many calories i burn during a workout?... i think i've heard of something like that before... is that what you mean?
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Post by Kookaburra »

Quote:
it seems as though i have enough glycogen to last me till i fall asleep. sometimes i don't. it's possible that i'm being tricked


Thats certainly possible, as adrenaline is a powerful drug;
it keeps you going even when you have no more glycogen left.
It simply makes you use protein for energy.
I know that when you are hungry and don't eat anything immediately, the body will covert muscle protein for energy. What I am interested to know is, what is the rate of conversion? In other words, for every 10 minutes that I don't eat something, how much muscle protein is lost? What if all the muscle protein is used up? What happens then?
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Post by RRM »

martianwarrior wrote: some sort of electronic device that can measure how many calories i burn during a workout?... i think i've heard of something like that before... is that what you mean?
Exactly!
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Post by RRM »

Kookaburra wrote:What I am interested to know is, what is the rate of conversion? In other words, for every 10 minutes that I don't eat something, how much muscle protein is lost?
Once all the spare energy in your liver is gone (400 kcal glycogen)?
For all physical activities you will use muscle-glycogen,
but when you are inactive, or when all glycogen is gone:
If you use say 3600 kcal a day, thats 150 kcal / hour, which is 25 kcal per 10 minutes.
5 kcal might come from stored fat, and 20 kcal from protein,
which is 5 grams of protein per 10 minutes.
What if all the muscle protein is used up? What happens then?
If all the muscles are used up for energy, then you will be a skeleton without any muscles,
and you cannot even walk.
And if you then still keep on eating nothing, your organs will be used instead,
and you will eventually die.
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Post by martianwarrior »

If all the muscles are used up for energy, then you will be a skeleton without any muscles,
and you cannot even walk.
And if you then still keep on eating nothing, your organs will be used instead,
and you will eventually die.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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