How much protein to prevent loss of muscles?

How to prevent unwanted weightloss, and/or even gain muscles

How much protein to prevent loss of muscles?

Postby thea » Thu 21 Sep 2006 12:41

Thank you RRM for your time and answer.

I known that you are right about protein intake, protein utilisation and protein quality.

In my country, it's very difficult to find fresh fish (frozen fish is bad ?) when I go to supermarket this fish smell bad- sometime there are some fresh organic salmon and I buy it.

I want to known for my bodyweight (90 gk), how much protein from egg yolk can I take for don't lose muscle ?Can I take just one protein meal in the morning and eat in the day some fruits and fat for inhition of the neoglucogenesis ?

I do only 2 time 30 minutes of weighlifting training per week. I don't want to gain muscle but to lose fat. My goal is to be healthy fisrt

I'm boring to eat like a bodybuilder 4 time a day a big portion of protein. It's to expensive, boring, you lose liberty because you're afraid to lose something... It's a crazy life... AND may be you are right there are aBIG FRAUD about the scientific board about protein intake and health, aging or sarcopenia.

Thank you again to help me to find a good breakfast of protein because I need to try... At this time I'm never try because I difficult to find fresh fish. I don't take milk, soya, protein powder because I'm intolerant at this food.I don't take meat too because I've reading your book.

How much egg yolk can I eat the morning to keep my nitrogen balance ?
Thank you
Best regards
thea
 
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Re: How much protein to prevent weightloss?

Postby RRM » Thu 21 Sep 2006 20:03

thea wrote:In my country, it's very difficult to find fresh fish (frozen fish is bad ?)


Reading that you have taken in large amounts of proteins, i guess you are not susceptible to acne, right?
In that case you can also take previously frozen fish, but you need to be sure of its quality / freshness, as you cannot check it yourself once it has been frozen.

I want to known for my bodyweight (90 gk), how much protein from egg yolk can I take for don't lose muscle ?


That depends on your muscle mass.
If your muscle mass if well above your set point weight (very muscular), it takes a lot of effort to keep it that high, including vigorous exercise and also high protein intakes, together with keeping your blood energy levels high at all times (because muscle protein is converted into energy when blood energy levels are low).

If you are not that much muscular, it is far easier to maintain that weight. With your weight (are you about 1.90 high?) I guess about 150 gram fish / egg yolks / day, but only if you also fulfill the other requirements:
- keep your blood energy level at sufficient levels throughout the day
- exercise

Can I take just one protein meal in the morning


It is better to take the protein in the early evening (AFTER exercising), as then a larger percentage will actually be used for reconstuction purposes during the night. If you take it in the morning, more will be used for energy only.

and eat in the day some fruits and fat for inhition of the neoglucogenesis ?


You dont need some fruits, you need to eat lots of fruits or juices, very frequently, in very small doses, to prevent energy lows in between meals.
Larger meals will always result in stroing new bodyfat.
I dont understand what you mean to say about neoglucogenesis.
Can you please elaborate?

you lose liberty because you're afraid to lose something...


Well, if you want to maintain a high muscle mass, you have no freedom anyway, as it will always be a struggle to keep it that way.

How much egg yolk can I eat the morning to keep my nitrogen balance ?


You nitrogen balance is not determined by what you eat in the morning, but by what you eat all day; it doesnt matter when. However, regarding utlizing protein efficiently, it very much matters when you take that protein-rich meal, and the best time is in the early evening (and never before exercise)
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Re: How much protein to prevent weightloss?

Postby thea » Fri 22 Sep 2006 07:36

[Reading that you have taken in large amounts of proteins, i guess you are not susceptible to acne, right?

:arrow: NO I have no problem with acne.

In that case you can also take previously frozen fish, but you need to be sure of its quality / freshness, as you cannot check it yourself once it has been frozen.

:arrow: YES, I understand- You said that frozen fish it's a "dirty protein". Frozen is not cooked, do you known if the amino profile is OK when is frozen ?


If your muscle mass if well above your set point weight (very muscular), it takes a lot of effort to keep it that high, including vigorous exercise and also high protein intakes, together with keeping your blood energy levels high at all times (because muscle protein is converted into energy when blood energy levels are low).
If you are not that much muscular, it is far easier to maintain that weight. With your weight (are you about 1.90 high?) I guess about 150 gram fish / egg yolks / day, but only if you also fulfill the other requirements:
- keep your blood energy level at sufficient levels throughout the day
- exercise

:arrow: WHAT for you high protein intake ? How much ? My weight is 90 kilogrammes with a good muscle mass but at this time I have water retention and bloat belly(not from estrogen or hormonal imbalance), my bodyfat is 14 %. I have before a leaky gut syndrome from food intolerance (milk, protein milk...). I try to understand how much gram of good quality protein that I need every day. I like your work, because you say that you don't need to much protein like 2 gr/kg/day. I LIKE THAT AND I HOPE IT's A TRUE.
Can I eat only the evening my protein fish meal and the rest of the day some many meals of fruits with some fat. That right ?


I dont understand what you mean to say about neoglucogenesis.
Can you please elaborate?
:arrow: Sorry for my english, I speak about amino acids that transform into energy (muscle catabolism)

What your diet ? (if you want), I've reading in this forum that you do so weightlifting. I want to known how much protein who eat every day.

I send you the answer from a good physician about protein intake :This phycisian is a specialist of athletes : this recommandation is no more than 1 gr a day per kilo
"Your protein intake of 1 gm per kilo of body weight is exactly what I recommend and I don't that that is excessive. I've worked with athletes whose intake was 1 gram or more per pound of body weight and they all developed glomerulosclerosis in later life from the added ammonia load plus the dehydration of athletics."

Thank you RMM for your answer
best regards.
thea
 
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Postby Oscar » Fri 22 Sep 2006 09:59

I think I eat about 25-35gr of protein per day, which is 0.44-0.61gr per kilo.
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Postby thea » Fri 22 Sep 2006 13:06

Oscar wrote:I think I eat about 25-35gr of protein per day, which is 0.44-0.61gr per kilo.



youa - May be you are too skinny with this protein intake ? less than 50 gr a protein is dangerous for the liver- you need protein for liver detoxification,brain fonction and muscle !!!
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Postby Oscar » Fri 22 Sep 2006 14:35

Nope, not too skinny. I'm actually increasing my muscle mass.
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Postby thea » Fri 22 Sep 2006 16:14

Oscar wrote:Nope, not too skinny. I'm actually increasing my muscle mass.



Dear Oscar, If you increase muscle mass with 35 gr of protein each day, I'm sure that you are your name in the guidness of records.

May be you are right, I don't known, I need to try myself before... But you are all the scientific study that said : you are wrong.
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Postby RRM » Fri 22 Sep 2006 19:21

I guess Oscar means just the protein in fish/yolks, right?
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Re: How much protein to prevent weightloss?

Postby RRM » Fri 22 Sep 2006 19:32

thea wrote:You said that frozen fish it's a "dirty protein". Frozen is not cooked, do you known if the amino profile is OK when is frozen ?


There is no scientific proof regarding dirty protein in frozen fish, and only if you are VERY susceptible to acne, you may get new pimples from eating previously frozen fish. So, there cannot be that much 'wrong' about it.
I see it as safe regarding health.

WHAT for you high protein intake ? How much ?


A fish intake of over 140 gram / day is high for me (increased ureum in urine)
Im 1.90 tall, and weigh about 82 kg at the moment, but that is due to my very high level of activity during my work, which makes it very hard to maintain muscle mass (too little rest for the body)
No water retention whatsoever (whenever I do, I will get acne immediately)

you say that you don't need to much protein like 2 gr/kg/day.


Absolutely. When my work did not require physical activity, I had far greater muscle mass, with the same level of protein intake.

Can I eat only the evening my protein fish meal and the rest of the day some many meals of fruits with some fat. That right ?


yes.

I speak about amino acids that transform into energy (muscle catabolism)


Well, then you need to eat lots of small meals very frequently to keep your blood energy levels high enough.

What your diet ?


3 to 5 Litres OJ with sugar and oil
a cucumber-tomato-avocado-chives-OO-vinegar-sugar salad
About 130 gram fish/egg yolks (at the moment and epending on the protein content of fish, as coquiles contain less protein, for example)

(if you want), I've reading in this forum that you do so weightlifting. I want to known how much protein who eat every day.

I send you the answer from a good physician about protein intake :This phycisian is a specialist of athletes : this recommandation is no more than 1 gr a day per kilo


More is no help indeed, at all
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Postby Oscar » Sat 23 Sep 2006 00:39

RRM wrote:I guess Oscar means just the protein in fish/yolks, right?

A nutrient calculator gave this result, and protein from fruit is included. I either eat 100gr fish or 4 egg yolks per day, aside from fruit protein.

Does anyone want to contact the Guinness Book of Records then? ;)
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Postby thea » Sat 23 Sep 2006 08:54

Thank you for your answers. I try to find many articles like the article of Wai on protein. Thank to post if you find some article about protein

one example :


The long-term effect of a high protein diet is always bad. It leads to an accumulation of the waste products protein metabolism, thus acidifying the body. For example, the human liver and kidneys combined have a limited capacity to excrete only about 8 grains of uric acid in 24 hours. However, one pound of meat can generate as much as 18 grains of uric acid. Hence, some uric acid will be left in the body from any one meat meal that will accumulate to produce the disease of gout, rheumatism or the complications of arthritis.
Very similar statements can be made about the megavitamin-mineral therapy. Here the results can be impressive and immediate. However, the disease still has a dietary basis and unless the individual pursues an improved dietary regime, the junk foods will eventually have their effect. Furthermore, no supplement can supply all the factors that are found in raw, living foods. Likewise, the human body was not structured for a fragmented nutrient intake; vitamins work best not alone, but in conjunction with other vitamins, minerals, enzymes and amino acids as found in food from nature. It is interesting to note that in his studies Dr. Kohler found it to be impossible to create a dietary supplement which utilized all the known dietary factors, equal in benefit and growth rates, to that which one finds in grasses.
The real solution to diet is to clean out the body. This increases the permeability of body linings, skin and cell walls, thus permitting easy transport of nutrients. A detoxified individual can eat very little of simple foods such as sprouted seeds and fruit and maintain excellent health, strength and intellectual acuity.
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