demineralized water

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RRM
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Post by RRM »

avalon wrote:The debate is who do you believe.
No, its about facts, not belief.
Fact:
If the water you drink contains no minerals, it will drain your body from minerals as it will ALWAYS leave your body containing minerals.
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Post by avalon »

RRM wrote:
No, its about facts, not belief.
Fact:
If the water you drink contains no minerals, it will drain your body from minerals as it will ALWAYS leave your body containing minerals.
With all do respect RRM, those of us who live our lives outside of 'Those in the Know' who can only go by what we read or hear on the news, who don't own laboratories where we can perform experiments ourselves- must go by believing those we believe to be speaking the truth. We wai/way the situation and decide who is more informed.

Dr. Andrew Weil, who I happen to like very much, and many others see nothing wrong with drinking Distilled water and does not believe the leaching of minerals is bad or dangerous. Of course he's bald :) I find him to be often quite credible. I don't dispute that minerals are carried out of the body, and more so than with mineralized water, but the question is more appropriately will it hurt us and there is no absolute proof otherwise there wouldn't be this uncertainty.

Dr. Mercola says many of his patients have suffered from use of distilled water and symptoms cleared up after returning to mineralized water. I'm leaning towards believing him. There are many who say the minerals we get from eating fruits and vegetables is more than enough to keep us healthy..

Show me the Facts that the minerals leached from drinking Distilled water will harm us.

And then, do I believe you or not :)
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Post by RRM »

avalon wrote:those of us who live our lives outside of 'Those in the Know'
We ALL dont know everything, and we can all understand some of it.
There is no inner or outer circle.
We should never go by our believes, or by what spokesperson we think is more credible, but by the facts that are presented. Based on these facts, we should make our own opinion.
Dr. Andrew Weil, who I happen to like very much, and many others see nothing wrong with drinking Distilled water
So, because you like him, you simply believe him?
You dont want to understand his exact reasoning first?
not believe the leaching of minerals is bad or dangerous.
So, the loss of minerals can never be bad?
I find him to be often quite credible.
That doesnt mean he is always right.
You should always try to understand WHAT he says exactly, instead of looking at WHO says it.
the question is more appropriately will it hurt us
Exactly.
No natural food or drink only takes out minerals from our body.
So, regardless of whether you think the effect may be bad, or not, the effect is that you will have less minerals at your disposal if the onlcy change you make is drinking distilled water instead of any kind of natural water.
If the level of a certain mineral in your body is quite low, drinking distilled water may therefore have adverse effects.
right?

Show me the Facts that the minerals leached from drinking Distilled water will harm us.
Dr. Mercola says many of his patients have suffered from use of distilled water and symptoms cleared up after returning to mineralized water. I'm leaning towards believing him.
Ehrrr, did you just answer your own challenge?
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Post by avalon »

Our Beliefs, believe it or not, are what guide us through life. We choose to believe the facts, or we don't. Many people choose not to believe facts. Often facts as we know them are dsiproved and later changed. One fact today may not be fact tomorrow.

So, for today, where is the proof that we need the minerals in the water we drink... Or that Distilled water will harm us...This is why there is a debate about this.

I am challenging that I have not read or found any 'facts', which prove the benifits or not there of, of distilled water and mineralized water. How many times have we been presented with facts, which weren't facts at all?

Yet, what I have learned thus far, creates enough doubt in my mind about Distilled water to side with caution. Next month perhaps I will learn more and change my mind.

My 'liking' of Dr. Weil comes from reading several of his 'Books' and from listening to his lectures. I apologize for not explaining properly so as to avoid this misunderstanding.

Dr, Mercolas reports, as i see them are not Facts. They are observations mostly. I don't believe, the facts are in yet :)

Avalon :)
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Post by RRM »

Thats not what I mean.
Fact is that when distilled water enters the body it contains no minerals, whereas it does contain minerals when it leaves the body.
Therefore it is also a fact that distilled water leaches minerals from the body.
The whole purpose of nutrition is that it puts nutrients IN the body, and not the opposite.

Question: can leaching nutrients from the body be harmful in some circumstances?

If you then choose to believe someone saying that this is never bad, simply because you like his books and lectures, on what reasoning (supported by facts) is that belief based?
What is his reasoning regarding this subject?
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Post by avalon »

RRM,
I am happy that you are certain of the downside to drinking Distilled water. Really. Realluy really really.

I am not certain. I understand your reasoning, however. At this time in my life I am not drinking demineralized water as i wrote above, and feel the information I have learned recently makes me cautious. This still does not make me certain of any such facts.

You wrote:
If you then choose to believe someone saying that this is never bad, simply because you like his books and lectures, on what reasoning (supported by facts) is that belief based?
What is his reasoning regarding this subject?
I wonder if you are even reading what I've posted above. Honestly.

Avalon :)
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Post by RRM »

First, you wrote this:
avalon wrote:Dr. Andrew Weil, who I happen to like very much, and many others see nothing wrong with drinking Distilled water and does not believe the leaching of minerals is bad or dangerous.
avalon wrote:My 'liking' of Dr. Weil comes from reading several of his 'Books' and from listening to his lectures
In response to that I wrote:
RRM wrote: If you then choose to believe someone saying that this is never bad, simply because you like his books and lectures, on what reasoning (supported by facts) is that belief based?
What is his reasoning regarding this subject?
And then in response you wrote:
avalon wrote:I wonder if you are even reading what I've posted above. Honestly.
So, I dont understand what your wondering is about... :?
Maybe you can now answer my questions?

Why does he think that the leaching of minerals from the body cannot be bad?
On what reasoning is it based?
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Post by avalon »

Dear RRM,

Let me be clear, Just because I admire the man and respect much of what I have learned doesn't mean I believe his take regarding distilled water. I strive to remain open for new knowledge, always. Currently, his search engine isn't running so I googled this:
FROM Dr. Andrew Weil

First of all, let me review for the record what distilled water is - it's water that has been turned into steam so its impurities are left behind. The steam is then condensed to make pure water. The process of distillation kills and removes virtually all bacteria, viruses, heavy metals, and other organic and inorganic contaminants. Once distilled, the water is as pure as water can reasonably be.

For reasons I don't understand, any number of myths - some quite extreme - have grown up over the years about distilled water. A quick Internet search today will take you to sites that put forth such views as "distilled water leads to early death." Nonsense. One claim holds that distillation removes all of water's beneficial minerals. While it's true that distillation removes minerals as well as various contaminants from water, we don't know that the human body can readily absorb minerals from water. We get our minerals from food, not water. By one manufacturer's estimate, you would have to drink 676 eight-ounce glasses of tap water in Boston to reach the RDA for calcium.

Your question as to whether distilled water leaches minerals out of the body reflects another persistent myth. While pure water helps to remove minerals from the body that cells have eliminated or not used, it does not "leach" out minerals that have become part of your body's cell structure. Neither does distilled water cause your teeth to deteriorate, a false claim made by a filter manufacturer looking to boost sales. As far as acidity goes, distilled water is close to a neutral pH and has no effect on the body's acid/base balance.

I hope I've set your mind at ease. Distilled water not only isn't dangerous, it's the purest form of water. It's also the kind of water I drink.

Dr. Andrew Weil - Published 12/19/2001
and:

FROM Water Quality Association

Both RO - and distillation - treated waters have comparable low (TDS - total dissolved solids) levels. Distilled waters have been used on board ships and in seaside communities to produce safe and palatable drinking water.

Notably, some major cities have natural TDS (total dissolved solids) levels in their delivered municipal drinking water actually lower than that from typical RO (reverse osmosis) water treatment systems. In the United States, for example, the TDS (total dissolved solids) in Portland, Oregon, is 23 mg/L (milligrams per liter), 50 mg/L in Lake Tahoe, California, 64 mg/L in Boston, Massachusetts, and 41 mg/L in parts of New York City.

Such low mineral levels in water do not cause ill health, and will not deprive the body of minerals necessary to good health. There are four main functions of water in the human body:

1. To serve as a transporter of materials
2. To act as a regulator of temperature
3. To lubricate joints and other tissues, and
4. To participate in our body's biochemical reactions

Demineralized (distilled) water is a good source to satisfy all these physiological functions. On the other hand, the body takes in the nutrients and minerals necessary to good health through eating foods - not through drinking water. The human body's own control mechanism (homeostasis) regulates the mineral content of the body fluids and the discharge of different types of ions from the body whether individuals are drinking water with low or high mineral content.

The amount of mineral nutrient obtained from water is truly insignificant. One cup of milk, for example, provides the mineral equivalent of several gallons of ordinary hard water. In warm-weather exercise, for example, the greatest danger is that of dehydration, and the proper advice to ward it off is to drink lots of plain water

There are many examples of real-world situations in which large populations have been and continue to be provided exclusively with low TDS (total dissolved solids) water, without any reported unusual or ill health effects. This establishes the safety of people consuming reverse osmosis treated and other similar low-TDS (total dissolved solids) water.

It's important to note that no public health organization with authority over the drinking water quality anywhere in the world has enacted or even proposed a minimum requirement for total dissolved minerals in drinking water.

Water Quality Association - Published June 24, 2002
I used him as a reference because I think he is a smart Doctor and he constantly shows openess to new ideas and theorys. However, I'm still on the fence as to the truth of this matter.

Avalon :)
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Post by RRM »

Demineralized (distilled) water is a good source to satisfy all these physiological functions
Sure, like all water does. But that is not the point. The point is the leaching of minerals.
avalon wrote:We get our minerals from food, not water
Yep, but that is not the issue.
The issue is that when you drink water that has no minerals at all, it will leak minerals from your body that have been absorbed from food.
it does not "leach" out minerals that have become part of your body's cell structure.
Of course not, but it DOES leach minerals that are not part of your body's cell structure.
Im sure he knows that in the blood, lymph and between all cells are minerals contained that can be leached from the body by drinking this body.
Subsequently, there are less minerals available to satisfy the needs of these cells. ('storage facility' that supplies the cells)
The human body's own control mechanism (homeostasis) regulates the mineral content of the body fluids and the discharge of different types of ions from the body whether individuals are drinking water with low or high mineral content.
Sure, the body tries to loose as little minerals when there are little available, but that doesnt mean that this system can prevent leaching.
It tries to minimize the damage, but it can never let the water leave the body without minerals that have been absorbed from food. (if it could, a lack of minerals could never be possible)
In every case, if you drink distilled water, once it leaves your body, it will always contain minerals that therefore have been leached from the body.
There are many examples of real-world situations in which large populations have been and continue to be provided exclusively with low TDS (total dissolved solids) water, without any reported unusual or ill health effects.
That is because with normal diets, you are overloaded with minerals.
With a natural diet, there is a far more natural balance; no more excessive minerals. In that situation the drinking of distilled water MAY be harmfull if minerals are leached that your specific diet is relatively low in. (no two people on this diet will ingest the same amount of minerals)
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Post by johndela1 »

RRM wrote: Fact:
If the water you drink contains no minerals, it will drain your body from minerals as it will ALWAYS leave your body containing minerals.
I'm a bit confused, if you drink water with minerals it will also leave with minerals.

What ever the case, if you cant' use the minerals in water because they would do you no good.

I'm just thinking if you drink dist water or mineral water you still will have minerals leaving your body.

The only way I can see to say what you are saying is a fact is to measure total minerals in a two groups. and have one drink dist water and the other mineral water, then wait till they urinate, then check the mineral content (I don't know if this is possible) of their bodies.
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Post by RRM »

johndela1 wrote:I'm a bit confused, if you drink water with minerals it will also leave with minerals.
Sure, but the net loss is smaller, neutral or negative (=gain).
What ever the case, if you cant' use the minerals in water because they would do you no good.
You cannot say that all the minerals in your blood, lymph and fluids between cells dont do you good. Of course they do.
Once they have been drained with the water, THEN they cannot do you any good anymore, indeed.
I'm just thinking if you drink dist water or mineral water you still will have minerals leaving your body.
Drinking water that contains minerals, your body can take up some of it if it needs to. (or can be forced to take up too much if it contains too much)
Whatever it doesnt need (if levels are moderate), will leave the body again.
With distilled water it has no choice; it cannot take up any (probably no need to anyway) and it will always have to let go of some (even when it doesnt want to).
The only way I can see to say what you are saying is a fact is to measure total minerals in a two groups. and have one drink dist water and the other mineral water, then wait till they urinate, then check the mineral content (I don't know if this is possible) of their bodies.
Its a simply biological fact that it is impossible for your body to urinate without having it contain minerals.
Even if you would drink 1,000 Litres in a row, every one of these would contain minerals once it leaves your body.
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Post by avalon »

So, RRM, you are a firm believer that distilled water is not healthy for the human body. You are not alone. Yet, there are others the world over, including Dr. Weil who believe otherwise.

Here's just another quick link:
http://www.durastill.com/myths.html

Perhaps there should be scientific studies done as john suggests. But even then I'm sure there will be some fraction not willing to listen.
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Post by avalon »

As a last note from me on the subject, quick, handcuf me to a tree brfore the full moon...

Here's another quote from an MD
Distilled Water
versus
Mineral, Carbon Filtered, and Reverse Osmosis Water
by Ron Kennedy, M.D., Santa Rosa, California

There is circulating a point of view about distilled water, undoubtedly promulgated by producers and sellers of mineral water. This point of view is that water should be mineralized in order to have health benefits and that distilled water somehow leaches out minerals from the body.

To understand the truth about this matter one must know a little about mineral chemistry in living systems. In order for a mineral to be of any use to the body it must be presented in a form in which it can be used. That form involves an association with an organic (carbon based) molecule. Carbon based molecules are to be found in living systems, and are not found in the ground which is where mineral water comes from. Water from the ground comes with minerals alright, but these minerals are in salt form. When salt is presented to the body (with rare exceptions such as sodium chloride) it must be either stored or excreted. A good example is CaCO3 (calcium carbonate). Carbonate is not a sufficiently complex organic molecule and therefore cannot properly contribute its calcium to living systems. The calcium comes out instead in ionic form (with a positive charge) and precipitates by forming other salts. Common locations for precipitation of calcium are the lens of the eye (cataracts), the kidneys (kidney stones) and the walls of arteries (arteriosclerosis). Unbound minerals must be excreted, which is extra work for the kidneys) or stored. This makes dust of the argument that healthy water is mineralized, and dust is of course the source of minerals in mineral water.

Incidentally, CaCO3 comes from lime stone and comprises the bulk of most calcium supplements, including that in “calcium enriched orange juice.” If you want cataracts, kidney stones, and arteriosclerosis, be sure to eat and drink “calcium enriched” foods.

Now as to the argument that distilled water leaches out minerals. This is true, and this is exactly what we want it to do. The minerals it leaches out are of the unusable, ionic form and we want these to leave the body rather than be deposited and cause disease. Distilled water does not leach out significant amounts of biologically available minerals because these are quickly taken up by the body on an as needed basis. If they are present in excess then they are filtered through the kidneys and this is exactly what needs to happen with all things which are in excess in the circulation. Distilled water cleanses the body through promoting healthy kidney function.

Finally, if mineral water is not a good source of biologically available minerals, then what is? Think about it. Minerals are present in the ground and must be biologically bound in order to be used by the body. Where would that come from? Plants, or course! Your mineral source should be plants not water. The purpose of water is to cleanse the body. To do the best job of that, it must be free of everything else. Only distilled water fits that bill.

As to carbon filtered and reverse osmosis water, these are better solutions than tap water or mineral water, however they still fall far short of the standard set by distilled water.

Nature knows best and nature supplies distilled water in the form of rain. However, rain water is no longer pure due to atmospheric pollution. The only remaining option is for us to distill our own water. To that end, I have found no equal of the WaterWise 9000 for up to five people in a home or office.

If you would like to read more I recommend two books: The Truth About Water and Your Body’s many Cries For Water.

Ron Kennedy, M.D.
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Post by johndela1 »

Do you know that if you drink mineral water you don't just pee out more minerals becaues they go through you? I've read that we can't use minerals unless they are organic. For example, if you got pure iron and ate it you wouldn't digest (inorganic) it but if it processed through a plant and carbon atoms are bound to the iron atom it becomes organic and is something the body can assimilate.

Is this not correct? I have been lead to believe that the minerals in water are not digestable but the same minerals that are in plants are.
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Post by RRM »

avalon wrote:So, RRM, you are a firm believer that distilled water is not healthy for the human body.
No, Im not.
All I was saying, is that it CAN be unhealthy on this diet if there is already a perfectly natural, delicate balance. THEN drinking this water can be unhealthy if it leaches minerals that your diet is relatively low in.
Perhaps there should be scientific studies done as john suggests.
You cannot test if it can be harmful to some. Thats impossible.
What already is a fact, that it leaches from your body. The only issue is whether this can be harmful, which depends on the availability of all minerals.
Here's another quote from an MD
Avalon, why this quote?
I thought we were beyond the point that we need minerals from water. (we dont) This was never the issue.
If you post a quote, please let us understand why that quote matters, otherwise its useless.
Short clear cut quotes also make more sense than long stories if you try to discuss something; its about narrowing down the differences, not about quoting left and right.
johndela1 wrote:I have been lead to believe that the minerals in water are not digestable
No, thats not true. they dont need digestion, but part of the minerals ARE absorbed, just as part of the metals are. That is also why you can get metal contamination from drinking high metal water.
Different waters have different effects.
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