"Meditation" debate

[Aytundra]

Jill Bolte Taylor!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzT_SBl31-s
This video is better.

[Novidez]

Jill Bolte Taylor!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzT_SBl31-s
This video is better.

You already know her?

[Aytundra]

Yes, I saw that video you posted a while back.
Don't know where I came across it.
I remember the guy carrying out the brain for her to hold and her giving it back to him.
Maybe in one of those links posted in a class.

[Aytundra]

This Meditation topic is really polluting my diary. Mad!
Meanwhile, trolling it is making you happy. I am fine with that.
The topic is like a bad bout of chicken pox. I have to scratch it...

Even here you are immediately judging and putting things in boxes (what is more valid blabla)

I like boxes. They keep things organized.
Classifying things is a method to help me organize my ideas.
Judging mode is a word you introduced.
"Mode" was your classification.
I merely just extended it, by adding "Observing mode"

There are pseudo psychology classification systems out there, like the MBTI.
(That system is challenged and obsoleted by OCEAN and later HEXACO)
One of the classifications is "Judging".
It seems that system accepts people that are frequently Judging.
I scored an INFJ formally when I took a paid test for MBTI about 5 years ago, if I remember correctly.
I was upset because I thought I was a thinker "T" and not and "F".
I liked the word thinker more, but I got "F".
I was upset.

Most meditation presenters are splitting hairs to get your attention and money.
They invent all these scenarios and hope that you will be gulliable enough to choose one of these from their menu and ask for their help.

Not all meditation guides want money, some try to do it because they think people will like it.
But that can go all into a mess if not done properly.
There are meditation guides "wanna bees" like my professor who thinks these little activities are great ice breakers to start a class.
I totally disagree.
I find that annoying.
It is like a teenager having watched a magician, then learning from a magician, and getting so excited about card tricks, and then coming back home to try stacking cards in a tower, and pulling table cloth from glass plates and cups, then making a mess because everything breaks.
I mean, it is one thing if objects breaks at home.
But you are messing with human emotions and minds there in a class.
That is not funny to me.
How about walk in there and actually teach the topic you are paid for instead of going off topic?

[Novidez]

You get upset and annoyed to many times in my opinion. And you clearly have a huge ego and a polarized mind.

RRM said an interesting thing

Logic is based on what you understand. There are so many things we do not understand yet, so that there are large holes in our understanding of everything around us, and therefore huge limitations if we base everything on logic.
Instinctively we, and other animals, 'know' many things that we cannot understand through logic, so that if you only accept things based on logic, you may get far behind.

I find this analogy quite interesting too:
"You can talk about honey for hours; you can write a PhD about the substance of honey and what it consists of, how it arises and how it's made by the bees. However, you have never tasted it. So, you can know everything about honey without knowing honey. 500 hundred pages or you even have a library full of books about honey...
- I know all about honey!
- Yes, but have you tasted it?
- No.

And then it comes a different kind of knowing: you taste the honey. Now, somebody asks you:
- Do you know honey?
- Yes!
- And, what can you say about it?
- Nothing."

[Aytundra]

And you clearly have a huge ego and a polarized mind.

I do not have a ego.
I do not have a polarized mind.
There is a difference.
I am just ultra-sensitive.
And very decisive.
When I express myself:
I am firm on my opinion.
I may only express/present one aspect of all my thoughts, that does not mean I have many other points of considerations for my thoughts.
Once, I decide on something, it stays that way until I get something else that challenges it.
If I have not decided on something, I stay un-decided.
If the position is something I believe is right, I try to defend it unless challenged and accepted that it should be different.
When I come to a conclusion, I usually have both sides in mind.
I am never one-sided in the mind.
i.e. raw-aytundra, cooked-foods-aytundra.
I try to understand both sides.
My diary shows I am on raw-aytundra's side as most of my thoughts agrees with that, as for expressing my reasons and supports for eating raw foods, I have never really explicitly explained in my diary. I leave those postcards on my profile.
If cooked-foods-aytundra wants to accuse aytundra of having a raw ego and a polarized mind, she should stock up on postcards for my profile too.

[Aytundra]

You get upset and annoyed to many times in my opinion.

I do not like the topic it messes up my emotions.

[Aytundra]

RRM said an interesting thing

Logic is based on what you understand. There are so many things we do not understand yet, so that there are large holes in our understanding of everything around us, and therefore huge limitations if we base everything on logic.
Instinctively we, and other animals, 'know' many things that we cannot understand through logic, so that if you only accept things based on logic, you may get far behind.

I find this analogy quite interesting too:
"You can talk about honey for hours; you can write a PhD about the substance of honey and what it consists of, how it arises and how it's made by the bees. However, you have never tasted it. So, you can know everything about honey without knowing honey. 500 hundred pages or you even have a library full of books about honey...
- I know all about honey!
- Yes, but have you tasted it?
- No.

And then it comes a different kind of knowing: you taste the honey. Now, somebody asks you:
- Do you know honey?
- Yes!
- And, what can you say about it?
- Nothing."

You are using slippery--log-ice {not logic, not only slippery ice}.
So in your opinion...
Jill Bolte Taylor who got a brain stroke, now understands brain strokes better. She is now qualified more than those brain surgeons that operated on her, who had never had a brain stroke? So all those surgeons needed to have had experienced a brain stroke before operating on her, and not only reading about it, to save her?

[Novidez]

I do not like the topic it messes up my emotions.

Can't really understand why. No need to

So in your opinion...
Jill Bolte Taylor who got a brain stroke, now understands brain strokes better. She is now qualified more than those brain surgeons that operated on her, who had never had a brain stroke? So all those surgeons needed to have had experienced a brain stroke before operating on her, and not only reading about it, to save her?

Where did I say that? You keep misinterpreting all I am saying.

The whole point of the analogy is that sometimes we simply don't have an answer to explain certain things. There, I was pointing out sense perceptions.
There are some smells, some sensations in your body, some feelings that you can't merely explain them.

Let's suppose you are out in nature, and I say to you:
"What is it that you can see over there?"
Then you stop thinking (I mean, for you it might be quite impossible ) and you put all your attention on your visual perceptions. And, until you find an interpretation and conceptualize what it is you are looking at, you may not realize, but you are not thinking for a brief seconds. However, you still know that there is something there.
A different type of knowing: you simply just know.
Jill Bolte Taylor talks about this other 'world' of knowing and experience things.

Very often we think by finding a word for something seems to us that now we know what something is. You find a word for it and you are like "Ah!, ok. That's a X". And then you are happy with it because you feel like you know something new. But do you really know what that X is?

This analogy is funny too:
The child asks his parents: "How do the birds find their way when they travel thousands of miles from the Northern Hemisphere to the Southern Hemisphere and, then, they find their way back in the next year to the exact same nesting grounds... Can you tell me dad how they do that?
And his father says: "Oh, yes. It's extinct.". Write it down, it's extinct, now you know what it is.

Do birds have mind? But they seem to know how to get back to their nests.

A lot of knowledge is just covering up our ignorance with words.
Life is and will be a deep mystery that we cannot conceptually understand.
Most people can't admit to themselves that there is a huge amount of things that they can't understand. So they pretend that they know to comfort their ego. They don't want to be on the state of not knowing. But if you see, it is just words, scribbles, symbols on a piece of paper.

I do not have a ego.

Come on, can't you see that is your ego talking?

Look at all this

I do not have a polarized mind.
There is a difference.
I am just ultra-sensitive.
And very decisive.
When I express myself:
I am firm on my opinion.
I may only express/present one aspect of all my thoughts, that does not mean I have many other points of considerations for my thoughts.
Once, I decide on something, it stays that way until I get something else that challenges it.
If I have not decided on something, I stay un-decided.
If the position is something I believe is right, I try to defend it unless challenged and accepted that it should be different.
When I come to a conclusion, I usually have both sides in mind.
I am never one-sided in the mind.
i.e. raw-aytundra, cooked-foods-aytundra.
I try to understand both sides.
My diary shows I am on raw-aytundra's side as most of my thoughts agrees with that, as for expressing my reasons and supports for eating raw foods, I have never really explicitly explained in my diary. I leave those postcards on my profile.
If cooked-foods-aytundra wants to accuse aytundra of having a raw ego and a polarized mind, she should stock up on postcards for my profile too.

If you really didn't have ego, you wouldn't have this need to contradict me, to justify yourself on all what you say.

[Aytundra]

Novidez, you are going off topic.
You are no longer talking about meditation.
You want to talk about Aytundra.
You are picking on Aytundra.

[Aytundra]

Basically Meditation is dumpster diving.
Hey everyone, let's go to the dumpster and see if we can find that wedding ring or that lottery ticket that someone accidentally threw out, or let's pick up some trash and turn it into treasure.

There are possibilities of treasures in a dump.
But a dump also contains many mouse traps.

No thank you.
I don't have the travel gears and appropriate clothing to take on dumpster diving right now.

[Aytundra]

There are expert dumpster divers that know where to go and what items to pick and how to pick treasures, instead of spoiled rotten goods.
They have a map in their mind of where their local goldsmiths dumped their gold dust, the woodsmith dumped the teak wood, the seamstress dumped their fine scraps of fabrics.
Great these are experts.

When a newbie comes along and gangs up a bunch of friends to dumpster dive. That can be a hazardous method.
You can get scrapped by a tin can and get infected without a tetanus vaccine shot, you can touch a mouse trap and that will hurt your hands, you can touch poison, or get contaminated by waste...Without proper preparation and knowing what method that are needed to walk through a dumpster, there can be hazards and dangers.

Jill fell into a dumpster by accident, she landed in a nice patch of a dumpster.
Not every brain stroke dumps people so nicely.

Some people desire the title of an expert dumpster diver, they spend years practicing that art.

[Novidez]

Novidez, you are going off topic.
You are no longer talking about meditation.
You want to talk about Aytundra.

Hey, don't blame me, you wanted to change the topic after all, didn't you?

You are picking on Aytundra.

Of course, I am picking on you. That's exactly what I wanted. Yay! ... -.-
Seriously, can't you just read without the idea that someone is calling or doing something to you? Could I be merely pointing some facts?

[Aytundra]

Could I be merely pointing some facts?

What fact is there?

Dumpster diving activity can make people happy and less stressed because they found a treasure to take home?
But then I can say shopping activity can also make people happy too and less stressed because they found a treasure to take home.
And dumpster diving is more hazardous in my opinion because there are many opportunities for inexperienced-dumpster-divers to get hurt.
While shopping is less hazardous, as the potential for touching a mouse traps are significantly lower.

The fact that Eckart has to go on and on and on making videos to say and explain why people still suffer while trying meditating or approaching meditating is probably a good indicator that dumpster diving can go awry easily.

Though as much as there are many expert-dumpster-divers out there to guide and warn you on how to navigate a dump, at the end of the day you are the one walking into the dumpster. There are dangers. Not my idea of fun.


Oh and, wealthy people do not need to dumpster dive.
Just like healthy people do not need to take supplements.

[Novidez]

in my opinion

Not my idea of fun.

I don't have the travel gears and appropriate clothing to take on dumpster diving right now.

So you blame for picking on you, but have you tried to look the way you reason your arguments and how you talk only about yourself and only though your perspective and make it the whole truth?

The fact that Eckart has to go on and on and on making videos to say and explain why people still suffer while trying meditating or approaching meditating is probably a good indicator that dumpster diving can go awry easily.

I am going to argue like you then: so, what you are saying is that everybody that makes lots of videos or promotes something are undoubtedly a failure?

But, glad you said that:
The fact that Aytundra has to go on and on and on answering to say and explain why meditation approaching is a fad is probably a good indicator that her reasoning can go away easily.