"Meditation" debate

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Aytundra
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Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)

Post by Aytundra »

Novidez wrote: Look at all you wrote. There's even feelings of sadness. Was it meditation? No. As Kasper said, if you really were concentrated on breathing, you surely hadn't written all those 'negative' things.
Okay, you want more, I can give you more explaination. Of all my negative meditation experience.

- Meditation, last year I had a prof who also liked to start 1 class with meditation, she used a bell too. She gave me a D in that class. I think at that point that was the last straw to my affinity to meditation liking people.

- Meditation, 4 years ago, I had to listen to meditation CD for 45 min in a seminar thing. My classmate luckily didn't like it either. We both sat with our eyes open at the back of the room, in the dark, being bored.

- Stress Busting session 4.5 years ago, I had to listen to someone present about ways to relief stress.

- Meditation 5 years ago , the first time I did it great, I felt like relaxed, that meditation was sit quietly in a room and imagine nice things. No bell ringing, no constant reminders on not thinking of negative thoughts, or to think of nothing.


Meditation is a fad.
It is like one of those things that groups with extra money for guest speakers like to net a meditation-guest-speaker as they are so easy to get.
But it is like those immature-street-clown-magicians, that don't really give anything to their presentation. Or I am just too old for it, and I am not gullible enough to believe that dropping a coin into a hat can make things disappear, or pulling scarves from a hat endlessly means that the hat can even produce a live bunny to jump out while the hat sits on a table that clearly has a place to store pigeons and rabbits.
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Kasper
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Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)

Post by Kasper »

i think the point is, that you kind of begin this discussion with that you are too healthy for meditation and that meditation should be seen as something like medication and that it can make healthy person sick or something.

but I think if you are honest it is more about your problems like tinnitus and your associations that meditation doesnt seem to really help you. right? i think a perfectly healthy human being should be able to meditate and experience it as relaxing. i can imagine many healthy people wont need it, there are many ways to relax, but that is another point
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Aytundra
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Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)

Post by Aytundra »

i don't really care to have a logical discussion anymore.
Novi is irritating me so much to be on the side of meditation.
I refuse to say meditation is of any benefit.

Yeah I am having a tantrum now.
MAD. :cry:
A tundra where will we be without trees? Thannnks!
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Aytundra
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Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)

Post by Aytundra »

Christina wrote: Before i put down my daily diet, I want to share some thoughts with you on thyroid and immunity. I read about a study of actors and their immunity in which they found that an actor playing a depressing role had a suppressed immune system and once they played a happy, upbeat role their immunity went up to healthy!! viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3171&p=35449&hilit=actors#p35449

I like that blurb that Christina wrote.
I think it is true that the environment and roles imposed affects who you are.

Meditation away into emptiness and to not-think-negative basically snowballs back into thinking negative, which is really dangerous, and a depressing activity to do. It is a mouse trap, because you are told to think of the cheese, but while you are told to think of the cheese, you are told not to think of the trap, the mention of the word mouse trap is enough to dump unpeacefulness back onto the mousey. Defeating the intentions of Meditation.

I prefer not to be in a class with a Prof telling me not to be stress.
If the Prof genuinely wants to create a nice atmosphere, than the Prof should do something fun instead.

I am sure there are Meditation techniques out there that do not have a depressing method of delivery. But I think those are exceptionally rare, like less than 0.005 % of meditation-guides are actually successful in their delivery.

---

Ok, peace out.
Can we stop talking about meditation.
By the way I want to delete everything meditation post.
A tundra where will we be without trees? Thannnks!
Kasper
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Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)

Post by Kasper »

you are acting so childish lol :roll:

but nevermind lets talk about something else :mrgreen:
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Aytundra
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Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)

Post by Aytundra »

I suppose meditation is better than that time when I had a Prof that started the class with: "Welcome to ClassName, My name is ProfName, look to your right, look to your left, half of you will be gone before midterms!" And it was true the class emptied, it was one of those killer classes.

What do you want to talk about Kasper? :D
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Kasper
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Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)

Post by Kasper »

it is your diary hehe, you lead, we follow 8)
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Aytundra
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Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)

Post by Aytundra »

*I recently learned the first 5 letters of the Dutch alphabet, from my mom's friend who is visiting from Groningen.
Ah Bayh Ceeayh Dayh Ahy ---> A, B, C, D, E.
She said reading the menu was confusing because all the letters are messed up in English.

I am thinking, Aytundra, should be "E"tundra.


-----------------------------------
Wednesday May 11, 2016 (3 :))[147+...?]
7:30
41
10:00 2 pieces dark chocolate
14:00 1 tomato soup, 1 piece of bread with butter, 1 platter of spaghetti pasta with shrimp scallops octopus fake-crab mixed frozen sea food in creme sauce, 2 cups of tea + 2 packets of sugar. [Went to a restaurant]*
22:00 2 mangoes, 1 banana, 4 pieces dark chocolate
00:00 - 10:55
---
* I got a tiny ceramic key chain of clog shoes. 8)

Thursday May 12, 2016 (13 :))[157+...?]
10:55
41
11:30 4 egg yolks
12:00 1 tomato
15:00 3.2 mangoes
20:30 1 banana, 3 oranges, 1 tsp oo, 1/4 tsp cocoa powder
23:30 - 9:23
---
A tundra where will we be without trees? Thannnks!
Novidez
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Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)

Post by Novidez »

Aytundra wrote:What do you want me to say?
Whatever you feel like. And if you feel like you have nothing to say, then don't say anything :)
Aytundra wrote:I think you are going off topic and imagining to many adjectives for me.
Well, what I wrote was actually regarding this:
Aytundra wrote:And that band-aids and tissue-paper, like meditation to counter "work/school/human-interaction-stress" is not needed.
Here, the subject was meditation, but let me tell you a little story: when people said to me that foods can actually change your health and make you feel better, can you imagine what was my reaction?
"Pff, bullshit. I rather continue eating my croissant aux chocolate, than stop eating it. That's ridiculous!" And where I am right now? Writing on a forum where food is the main subject and I'm completely enthusiastic and motivated about this subject. How ironic, right? Do you see what I mean? You can't know for sure if it really makes you feel better or not, until you really try it. I know it's a cliche, but it's true. Maybe now it doesn't make sense for you and if it doesn't, then don't do it. But saying that is a fad or wtv... Just don't take things for granted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28p6pmmj1iQ
I'm sorry for putting you another clip from Eckhart (hey!, at least he isn't a bald buddhist person :P)
When there is no readiness, forcing it is simple counter productive, that's true.
- Meditation, last year I had a prof who also liked to start 1 class with meditation, she used a bell too. She gave me a D in that class. I think at that point that was the last straw to my affinity to meditation liking people.

- Meditation, 4 years ago, I had to listen to meditation CD for 45 min in a seminar thing. My classmate luckily didn't like it either. We both sat with our eyes open at the back of the room, in the dark, being bored.

- Stress Busting session 4.5 years ago, I had to listen to someone present about ways to relief stress.
There can be two interpretations here: there's yours - the negative one - and the other - the positive one - "I don't understand how in school teachers don't talk about meditation and how to use our mind efficiently... Wait, your school has some meditations classes? That's amazing!". For example, I never had that lucky (not lucky for you for sure) to have meditation classes. Only recently, in my college, I had one class that our teacher talked about meditation. And the reaction from my colleagues was exactly like yours: making fun and ridicule it.
Meditation away into emptiness and to not-think-negative basically snowballs back into thinking negative, which is really dangerous, and a depressing activity to do.
I don't know what kind of meditation you do. But if it turns out being that, it is in fact dangerous. But remember: that is not meditation, that's "Aytundra's meditation".
But I think those are exceptionally rare, like less than 0.005 % of meditation-guides are actually successful in their delivery.
What kind of statistical conclusion is that? Ok, you want to feel more right about what you think, nothing against. But, one day, try to read the Power Of Now and tell me what you think. Hope it will be included on those 0.005% :)
By the way I want to delete everything meditation post.
Poor meditation concept :( ... You don't even say "I want to delete my previous post.", just those one regarding meditation. Ok, now I am just messing with you :D
Aytundra wrote:Ok, peace out.
Can we stop talking about meditation.
Sorry if I was a bit late answering... Finito :)
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Aytundra
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Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)

Post by Aytundra »

I see you are quite happy trolling this topic. :!:
Carry on then.
Fuming with fury :evil:


{ ;D }
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Novidez
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Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)

Post by Novidez »

Aytundra wrote:What do you want to talk about Kasper? :D
Instead of introducing an interesting new topic, the next post of yours is talking about your diet again. Quite boring ;D

^_^
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Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)

Post by Aytundra »

Okay, I clicked on those 3 links.
Here are my opinions:
A) Suffering is the mantra of Buddhism, "all is suffering"... the bell ringing at the beginning of the video hints that Eckhart there subscribes to those methods. Constant pondering on the fact and thinking everything is suffering is probably not healthy in my opinion, as that is very like the actors trying to act depressing roles and then getting sick afterwards as Christina described in her quote I quoted several posts back.

B) Eckhart thinks the dog is not in the moment, when the dog chased after things, I disagree the dog was in the dog's present moment it is like 'smell the roses', meta-cognition of thinking and obsession of being in the "present" moment, is a delusion.
Any moment is the present moment.
The dog chose to run after flowers, so that is the dog's present moment, the dog has no need to overthink and believe that the dog needs to have thought another form of present moment.
This picosecond is the present moment, and so is the next picosecond, microsecond...minute...

C) Eckhart thinks that Thinking is an addiction of the human brain. Eckhart needs to stop his addiction on believing that his thoughts are an addiction.
When the brain sleeps it also thinks in dreams, does Eckhart think he should manipulate present moment in his dreams too? I don't understand how a constant process of the body can be called an addiction. Is the heart addicted to pumping blood even when it is surgically removed and sits on a tray? Come on these are just biological processes.
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Novidez
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"Meditation" debate

Post by Novidez »

You keep judging and judging and judging (...). That's too much mind. Even from a simple example about his dog, you can write 6 lines from it xD

Eckhart has a lot of clips and he answers all of those things you said.
https://youtu.be/VauHIuyPwkM
"because the way from unhappiness or suffering to transcendence it's easier than the way of superficial happiness to transcendence. Superficial happiness keeps you in the dream world for quite a while."

But forget everything about this ;D
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Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)

Post by Aytundra »

Just skip all that.
Being happy is happy.
There is nothing about fake happy and real happy.
If you experience emotion that is happy, that is happy.
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Kasper
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Re: Aytundra's Diary (not Wai diet)

Post by Kasper »

I haven't really studied meditation, I just go to yoga classes often and often there is some small meditation session.

For me yoga and meditation are very similar, in the fact that it brings your focus more in an "observe" mode. Instead of a "think" or "judge" mode. In yoga, I observe my body, where is the pain is in my body, where the tension is. And I really love that. I think it is super relaxing and joyful. If you live in your head all day, and never bring any attention to your body, I think it is unnatural, and unhealthy.

Meditation is similar, but then you often "observe" your breathing. This is sometimes very difficult, especially in the beginning, so what people often do instead, is "observe" their thoughts. Like a judgeless jury that is observing what you are thinking about. So maybe you thought goes to your associations with meditation, then you are like "Okay, interesting, so this is what my associations are". So let thoughts come in, and observe them, and bring your attention back to your breathing. But don't be a in judge mode, but in an observe mode.
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