"Meditation" debate

[Aytundra]

Judging mode is as valid as observing mode.
Not one is better than another mode.

[Novidez]

Well, there's a 'little' difference: from judging war begins. And from observing, you are impartial, it is what it is.

https://youtu.be/ve6UU_9ttbU?t=9s (All hail the Eckhart spamming )

[Aytundra]

In science we state a question, we list our hypothesis, we create a method, we aquire materials and resources and personnel to do the experiment, we observe the natural phenomenon, we collect data, we analyze the data, we think and interpret the data, we draw conclusions from the data, we discuss what we found, we relate it to other similar articles, we list other ideas, we thank our sponsors, we list future possible next steps if the question is unanswered, we list our citations and references, we list our charts and tables.

Meditation is thought quackery. imo.

[Novidez]

Remember that meditation is not equal to not use the mind at all. You are completely confusing things.
The whole point of meditation is to use mind more efficiently, when it is only really needed. And not becoming possessed by it (like everybody is). When you are bathing, are you really bathing or are you thinking what are you going to do next? And after doing that next thing, are you really there or are you thinking about another next thing to do? All those thoughts are consuming your energy unnecessarily and you are not giving full attention on what are you doing in the present moment.
You are walking on the street and thinking about what are you going to do tonight. You imagine all the process, you plan it really really well, it won't fail for sure. But what's the point of it if you are still on the street? Attention!, planning has its utility too. But compulsive planning can just be unnecessary. Actually, you arrived home and you had some visits and there go all your plans. All those thoughts while were walking were completely useless and they were only bringing you anxious, stress and expectations (which fell down when you arrived home). And, actually, while you were walking, there was a treasure in front of you, but you couldn't see it because you were in your mind all the time.

[Novidez]

In science we state a question, we list our hypothesis, we create a method, we aquire materials and resources and personnel to do the experiment, we observe the natural phenomenon, we collect data, we analyze the data, we think and interpret the data, we draw conclusions from the data, we discuss what we found, we relate it to other similar articles, we list other ideas, we thank our sponsors, we list future possible next steps if the question is unanswered, we list our citations and references, we list our charts and tables.

“People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true... that is how they define reality. But what does it mean to be correct or true? Merely vague concepts... their reality may all be an illusion.”

[Kasper]

Judging mode is as valid as observing mode.
Not one is better than another mode.

The question is not about what is more valid or not lol.

But I think if you come out of this non stop judging mode, it will do you good. Even here you are immediately judging and putting things in boxes (what is more valid blabla)

[Aytundra]

Catch22
If you move your mind to the future you are not thinking of the present.
If you move your mind to the present moment you are not thinking of the future.
If your mind is not in real-past, real-present, real-future; fake-past, fake-present, fake-future; real-happy, fake-happy; in-the-moment, out-of-your-stressful-moment; in-yourself, in-mindfulness-of-everyone; in-emptiness-of-all-stress...etc.
If your mind is in any of these scenarios, You need the help of meditation, says meditation.

Most meditation presenters are splitting hairs to get your attention and money.
They invent all these scenarios and hope that you will be gulliable enough to choose one of these from their menu and ask for their help.

[Aytundra]

if you come out of this non-stop judging mode...

You guys can't accept my opinion that Meditation is not for Aytundra.
You are judging me.
You invent the description of "non-stop judging mode" to judge Aytundra.
Haha, I got you into judging mode.
Kasper is on my side now (he is judging).
Novidez I am waiting for you to join the judging side!
oh wait you are, you judge that I am judging. Hahaha.

[Kasper]

i am just observing you are judging

[Kasper]

but from everything you say it is clear that meditation is something that you especially need, a lot more than most people do

[Aytundra]

i observed you were judging and i observed you were also observing, you were doing both.

[Aytundra]

but from everything you say it is clear that meditation is something that you think i especially need, a lot more than most people do.
i disagree with your thoughts!

[Novidez]

Even here you are immediately judging and putting things in boxes (what is more valid blabla)

Precisely!

You need the help of meditation, says meditation.

What?

Most meditation presenters are splitting hairs to get your attention and money.
They invent all these scenarios and hope that you will be gulliable enough to choose one of these from their menu and ask for their help.

Invent? Look at the world outside. Better, look deeply at yourself. Who are you?
But it's incredible that for one single experience of meditation (or whatever it was for you), you conclude that. Wow.

Ok, this is not Eckhart Tolle talking, but watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykmwCyHlDXM

You guys can't accept my opinion that Meditation is not for Aytundra.

Lol, where did I say I couldn't accept your opinion? In fact, all this reaction of yours is pretty common, nothing new here. I was exactly the same.

You are judging me.

As you can see, you keep following those thoughts. Actually, they even tell you that we are judging you. Then, tell me what's our judgment to you.
Here, I think I am simply trying to describe what you are doing. Here you already talked about balded man, tinnitus, dog's Pavlov, fad, a little story about your past, being somewhat angry, somewhat sad, compare what is better or worse, constantly criticizing people who practice meditation, judging them saying that they just want money and it goes on... I don't know, but reading what I wrote to you, I think I didn't calling you anything. I'm simply trying to point out some facts and merely describe them.

but from everything you say it is clear that meditation is something that you especially need, a lot more than most people do

Ikr?

P.S.: And you clearly have not seen this video.

[Aytundra]

More name calling then.
I am beyond reasoning now.
I am mad.
Meditation is not a healthy thing for society.
It wastes time that could have been spent problemsolving.
Meditation creates artificial problems to be solved by meditation.
Meditation creates self-doubt, and lost of confidence.
Healthy minds do not need meditation.
Healthy thinking problem-solving oriented minds do not need to ponder on some dust or chest or some air.
That detracts them from actual thinking time.

[Novidez]

The funny thing is that you seem to know better what meditation is than me and Kasper and probably more than both us together.

Since you are all that scientific, I have this clip for you: Brain researcher Jill Bolte Taylor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYD7Y9CXeUw