"Meditation" debate

[Aytundra]

What does age have to do with meditation?

[Kasper]

Nevermind, I was just trying to put your story in context.

Anyway, meditation seems to trigger a quite intense negative emotional reaction with you. But I feel like you are turning things in your head around. You are saying something like, I have a very emotional reaction to meditation, so I must clearly be too healthy for meditation. That reasoning is just kind of silly, I think you must agree with that.

[Aytundra]

Meditation premise is that it assumes that people are inferior.
That meditation will solve people.

Healthy people can be made unhealthy by meditation.

[Aytundra]

Meditation's premise is that it assumes that people are inferior in their minds.
Meditation claims it will bring their minds into a better position.

But what if a mind is perfectly content and happy, and meditation process drops people out of their perfect zone?
Sometimes, healthy minded people can be made unhealthy minded by meditation.

[Aytundra]

Meditation stirs up emotions unnecessarily.

[Kasper]

Meditation stirs up emotions unnecessarily.

But apparently only if you are so healthy minded as you are. For an inferior human being like me, it makes me feel relaxed and peaceful.

Healthy people can be made unhealthy by meditation.

Maybe one day I will be so healthy, and also experience negative emotional reactions after focussing on my breathing for some minutes. I can't wait until I'm at that level!

[Novidez]

Meditation stirs up emotions unnecessarily.

Ahah, that's funny. Because clearly here, me and Kasper are the stirred ones.

[RRM]

Like Aytundra, i also do not feel like meditating at all.
I think it may be very beneficial for some, but definitely not for me.
I think it very much depends on how you deal with stress; whether you automatically deal with stress very fluently.
For me, i always use stress for yielding energy.
At first you get a "negative signal" (stress / getting 'stirred'), which raises my adrenalin, which activates me physically or intellectually (depending on the situation) in a way that it brings me into 'the zone' (a state of very effective hyperfocus / hyperactivity).
Then i work my ass off, thus transforming the stress into energy, leading to relaxation (enjoying the hard work, and having fun).

So, for me, i do not need meditation.
In my case, meditation would really get on my nerves.
I rather use and enjoy the energy.

[Kasper]

Interesting, but I think not feeling like meditating is something different then experiencing very negative emotions while you are trying to focus on your breathing for some minutes. Do you have that as well?

[RRM]

No, just feeling that it is useless to me.

[Novidez]

So, for me, i do not need meditation.
In my case, meditation would really get on my nerves.

I rather use and enjoy the energy.
As I said to Aytundra, meditation isn't only about staying still and paying attention to your breathing. That is one type of meditation. Doing that is useful, yes, because you can start noticing how your thought process and your ego works and how repetitive your thoughts are. But then, applying this to your daily living is whole different story. That's why I rather say 'being present' or 'being aware'.

At first you get a "negative signal" (stress / getting 'stirred'), which raises my adrenalin, which activates me physically or intellectually (depending on the situation) in a way that it brings me into 'the zone' (a state of very effective hyperfocus / hyperactivity).

Yes, but it may lead you doing things on an unconscious way, so to speak. This is, how many times you wake up in the next morning thinking "Damn, I should not have done that." or you apologize someone for something you said or did. Someone punches you and you react doing the same. Someone argues with you, you defend yourself and then a discussion happens. Few minutes later, you noticed that all made no sense. And then you apologize, saying something like "I was hotheaded.". If you are aware of your thoughts and reactions, you may notice how your ego and thoughts influences you in every situation of your life.
Being aware of breathing, for instance, is a way to change immediately your behavior sometimes.

I rather use and enjoy the energy.

Meditation will not rob your energy at all. Perhaps, it will give you even more energy.

Also, when you are walking and thinking what you are going to do next, or imagining a situation in the future, or you even imagining a chat in your head and, incredibly, you imagine too what that person is going to say to you. Tell me, how many times you are completely lost thinking about something that most times ends up being completely useless?
There's a difference on being possessed by our minds or using our minds effectively and only when needed. Not every single second of our lives because it only consumes our energy unnecessary.
You are brushing your teeth and at the same time you are thinking what a person did to you, unconsciously, you may be brushing your teeth more aggressively. Maybe, if you were thinking about something that gives you pleasure, you would be brushing your teeth more softly. But it is all influenced by your thoughts. And the most important is that you are not thinking about brushing your teeth at all, which is in fact what you are doing at that moment. Even one a person is simple trying to fall asleep, he is are ruminating about things. But for what purpose? 99% of the times none.

[Aytundra]

These are my two favorite quotes from the forum:


1) Christina's quote on actors and immunity:

Before i put down my daily diet, I want to share some thoughts with you on thyroid and immunity. I read about a study of actors and their immunity in which they found that an actor playing a depressing role had a suppressed immune system and once they played a happy, upbeat role their immunity went up to healthy!!viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3171&p=35449&hilit=actors#p35449

I like it because it explains the mechanism of what makes people not happy.

2) RRM's quote on how to be happy:

"Be happy and make everyone happy." - RRM

I like it because it directs you what to do.

Everyone should include these two quotes in their emotion's emergency kit.

[Aytundra]

This is how to use those two quotes:
Step 1:
Pretend you are the actor for like 10 seconds. Ask yourself are you placed in a depressing role or a happy role?
That is using quote 1.

Step 2:
a) If you answered depressing role, then you should run away from that role.
b) If you answered a happy role, then you can stay in that role.
Why?
Because of your belief in quote 2.

So far it has always been bullet-proof in allowing me to recognize what my environment is, when I apply it.

[RRM]

If you are aware of your thoughts and reactions

I am.

how many times you are completely lost thinking about something that most times ends up being completely useless?

Never. Thinking enables me to consider all options possible; consider the unexpected.
It all has a purpose.

Even one a person is simple trying to fall asleep, he is are ruminating about things. But for what purpose? 99% of the times none.

It is actually the most valuable time of the day, reviewing what needs to be reviewed, and giving me great insights. I only fall asleep once everything has been solved or sorted out.

[Novidez]

I am.

Then yeah, you don't need meditation.

It is actually the most valuable time of the day, reviewing what needs to be reviewed, and giving me great insights. I only fall asleep once everything has been solved or sorted out.
Never. Thinking enables me to consider all options possible; consider the unexpected.
It all has a purpose.

You say that because you are clearly a balanced person.
But I do not totally believe in that. I doubt that you completely stop sleeping until something is really solved and, for example, miss working on the next day because of that.
Look at me now, for example: since I am always so concerned about my health, I am always thinking and thinking all the possibilities and considering the unexpected. Most of the times, I conclude it is completely useless and it only gives me more stress. Being worrying all the time for something that you may not have and stop living life because of that, I would say that is considering the unexpected on a really extreme way, which may be unhealthy.
And yes, here I stop sleeping and I don't do anything else because I can't think of another thing.
Tell me, what purpose does it have? I think the only purpose it has is to ruin someones lives (like mine).
This may be the reason why meditation works with me: if I wasn't aware of these compulsive thoughts, maybe today I was already dead.
When I was depressed, every night, before I fell asleep, my thoughts were something like how could I suicide tomorrow; what is the best way to do it.
Do you understand what I mean?