Vipassana retreats

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andyville
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Vipassana retreats

Post by andyville »

Has anyone been to a 10 day Vipassana retreat? I have heard some truly encouraging things about Vipassana from people that I really respect, and I am thinking about trying to learn the meditation tethod by attending one of their free courses.

Experiences, anyone?
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Oscar
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Post by Oscar »

There has been a brief discussion about it here: viewtopic.php?t=176&start=15

Interesting topic anyway. ;)
andyville
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Post by andyville »

Corinne:

I read in the topic that Oscar linked above that you attended a course and liked the experience, but didn't like the food. The food issue has actually kept me away from signing up from a course before, but I am thinking about bringing my own orange juice and olive oil (eating these foods would not break any rules, so I can't see why the teachers would have anything to say about this).

How would you say Vipassana has changed your life? The changes that I am looking for are higher concentration, a better understanding of the signals my body gives me when my mind is in harmful states such as stress, anger, bitterness and so on. Basically I feel like the Wai diet has helped me immensely in eliminating bad substances from entering my body through the food I eat - the next step is to eliminate bad mental states, caused by my own thinking. I think the combination of a pure body and a pure mind will lead to a life in optimal health and a state of optimal peace of mind.

I guess my main problem with anything that is even vaguely dogmatic, is that I am very sceptical of things that are not scientifical. However, people tell me that Vipassana is the closest you can come to science (certainly more scientific than Freud, thank god) which makes me even more interested. Time to sign up, I guess... :)
andyville
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Post by andyville »

One last thing:

What I like most about Vipassana is that it seems to be very focused on actually living a good life, in the sense of being successful, doing what you like to do and so on. The people that I know of who have attended retreats, are all very "worldly" people leading successful lives, and they all think what they learned in the course has made them even more successful in the sense that they can work harder on things they care about, be more focused and so on. I'm probably quite a worldly person myself in that I'd rather be out there doing something I care about, then sitting in my room all day long like a vegetable thinking happy thoughts. (Ummm, vegetables are probably not thinking a lot of happy thoughts, but you get my point... I hope.)
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Post by Cairidh »

I signed my mum up for one but she kept cancelling for stupid reasons.
The man who rang up from the centre and left messages on the answerphone had the most amazing voice I've ever heard - he sounded sooooooo at peace, tranquil, calm, incredible. He was a fantastic advert for vipassana.
Chin-Chin
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Post by Chin-Chin »

I'm thinking of doing one of these retreats sometime this year, most likely in the Far East. Corinne said that the food was very good (cooked vegetarian), but not Wai. I wonder if it will be local cuisine in the Far East? Personally, I don't see myself keeping up with the Wai diet when I go back to China anyway, as I depend heavily on sashimi and meat, and I don't trust the sources there; plus Chinese food is divine!

One of my yoga teachers did hers in Kyoto and Switzerland, two of her favorite Vipassana retreat spots. She says that since it's so difficult, you might as well find an environment that really vibrates with you.

Ten days is quite long. I've been meaning to do this for quite some time, but have not been able to free up my schedule...
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Post by andyville »

Chin Chin:

You said it yourself - the technique is probably so hard, that 10 days are required to at least get a basic grasp of it...

What kind of change are you looking for, would you sign up for a retreat?
Chin-Chin
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Post by Chin-Chin »

I've been doing meditation and breathing techniques on and off since I was twelve. I kind of had to to overcome anxiety at the time - I was a very anxious kid, and meditation and Qi Gong changed that within 6 months.

I wanted to try the Vipassana technique out because I'm interested in finding out the precepts behind it and because I'm very interested in bodily experiences and energy perception, and because it will provide the environment to do some really in-depth work and take my practice and understanding to the next level.

But I don't want to clog my mind up with expectations. I just plan to find the time to give it my best try.

My yoga teacher, an experienced practitioner, said that there are times that she was like:"what the hell am I doing here?" I'm more worried about my legs going numb :)
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Post by andyville »

I used to be into the whole yoga thing, and read loads of books on iyengar, power yoga and other techniqes; when I finally signed up for a course, I realized it was not for me. If this was due to the fact that my teacher seemed to be close to a nervous breakdown, or the fact that I found most of the exercises very uncomfortable, I don't know - probably a combination of both.

I used to have very strong aversions towards the practice of meditation. I have come to realize, however, that being able to observe the connection between mind and body (which I believe is one of the key objectives in Vipassana meditation) might benefit me tremendously, because I believe that if you understand this connection you might be able to eliminate the bad influence your destructive thoughts might have had on your body before.

I've registered for a course starting in July in Sweden - time to find out about the great mystery of Vipassana. :)
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Post by Corinne »

Hi Andyville!
congratulations for siging up! Its wonderfull!
andyville wrote:How would you say Vipassana has changed your life? The changes that I am looking for are higher concentration, a better understanding of the signals my body gives me when my mind is in harmful states such as stress, anger, bitterness and so on. Basically I feel like the Wai diet has helped me immensely in eliminating bad substances from entering my body through the food I eat - the next step is to eliminate bad mental states, caused by my own thinking. I think the combination of a pure body and a pure mind will lead to a life in optimal health and a state of optimal peace of mind.
i have a bit of time to reply now...

Vipassana will provide you with the mental changes you are looking for and much more. It's effect will be all the more powerfull if you succeed in continuing the practice they instruct you to do after the course on a regular basis, something I have not yet been able to do. Think of it in terms of WAI: doing a 10 day course is like doing the sample diet for 2 weeks: you feel amazing, pure, energetic but after if you start to eat much-foods it's not quite the same, though nevertheless you have experienced the sample diet and you are changed thanks to the knowledge WAI has given us. If you go 100% the benefits are at least 10fold...
I've managed WAI, next is Vipassana!

During the 10 days they focus on pure food/body (we know beter though), pure thoughts, pure actions. Everything there is directed to this end, and for this reason it will seem very strict and stiff but you'll need to bear with it as you will only realise at the end of the 10 days how it's all extremly well put together so that you meet your goals.

Now as far as the food is concerned: i've done two 10 day courses. The first one I knew nothing of WAI and thought the meals delicious. The food is vegetarian with lots of salads and they let you know if there are dairy products or nuts in something. On my course there were no eggs.

And BTW yes, Chin Chin the food is regional.

Where will you be doing your course andyville? I did my second one last summer in Belgium (like the first) and had just started the raw/WAI diet but was far from wanting to be 100% WAI. I ate fruit in the morning, salad and a small portion of cooked foods at lunch. 'old students' do not get a late afternoon meal : we drink lemon water; 'new students' get fruit so that should't be a problem for you. at my course they had olive oil on the table.

What you need to know is that it is not possible to bring/eat your own food even if it does not break any of their food rules. It's because during your stay you are living completly on charity: when monks in India go begging at peoples homes they can't request OJ right? So this is why. Not because of some dogma or because there is something parlicular in the food. For anyone not familiar with WAI it is a very healthy diet. Just remember that the course is designed for the benefit of you learning the technique in all it's integrity. the trust must be there. ;) Also you will notice that you do not need to eat as much as usual because of the intense meditation.

If you are 100% wai atm I would advise you to eat a bit of cooked food to get used to it again so that you don't get sick there. In the case of a medical excuse (with letter from doctor) they will accomodate your needs but it might not be to your advantage in the end.

I still advise you to go for it and do it! It's wonderfull. Accepting the food part will be an extra challenge.

Hope this anwsered your questions. Don't hesitate if there are more.

Corinne
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Post by Corinne »

Oops!
I missed that you said you signed up in Sweden. Are you from there?
I think you could assume the food will be your basic healthy vegetarian diet:
Lentils, whole grains, vegetables and i'm sure a lot of salads and fruits since it's summer (even in sweden)!
andyville
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Post by andyville »

Corinne:

Thanks a lot for your reply! I am not surprised by your positive experiences; everyone who's gone to a retreat seems to have loved it (apart from Chin Chin's yoga teacher, apparently :))

If you feel like you have the time, feel free to tell us about what the observations are all about. Do you use the observational techniques in your everyday life? What I need is a kind of lasting change, a new way of dealing with life - not just a technique that I use 30 minutes every morning, to then get on with my old habits.

To quote Rivers Cuomo of Weezer, who's a Vipassana practioneer:

"I need to reach a higher plane / Where things will never be the same"
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Oscar
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Post by Oscar »

I personally think that one way of developing one's spirituality, is by becoming more aware (about anything and everything). This can be done by lots of different methods, in lots of different ways. In my view, we are made up of three parts: body, mind, and soul. Ideally speaking these are in harmony, but with most people that isn't the case.

Vipassana tries to achieve that harmony, by taking the two which are the easiest to influence and connect them. When the mind and body are in harmony, the soul can follow.

It teaches to be equanimous towards either positive or negative bodily sensations, which can be extrapolated towards anything else in life. Of course equanimity does not mean indifference, and as equanimity grows, value judgement disappears. Good/bad, beautiful/ugly, positive/negative, etc. They are the same, and part of life and the universe. And when realization strikes (ie when one knows) that it all belongs, that everything is 'beautiful', then one is really aware. :)
Chin-Chin
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Post by Chin-Chin »

andyville wrote:Corinne:

Thanks a lot for your reply! I am not surprised by your positive experiences; everyone who's gone to a retreat seems to have loved it (apart from Chin Chin's yoga teacher, apparently :))
Hi Andyville,

I think you misunderstood. Thinking about "what the hell am I doing here" is just part of the process that will happen to anyone at one point during the retreat. You just observe that and let it go. This specific yoga teacher has been doing on the average 2 Vipassana retreats a year (and loves it), does meditation every single day, studies with Iyengar for about 3 months per year in India, and has done tantric, intense meditation, all traditional styles of yoga. It's nice to have someone tell you that this WILL happen because your mind will rebel against any effort to concentrate, as any untrained mind's natural tendency is to be on vacation :)

Just as an illustration, my tendency to procrastinate is the most pronounced when I have a deadline - typical mind rebellion. But of course, for different people, it comes in different ways and forms.

Anyhow, congratulations for signing up, I wish you all the best. Also, if you are not used to sitting for a long period of time, you should check out sitting stools or other options, unless if you prefer to sit in a chair.

Keep us posted!
Chin-Chin
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Post by Chin-Chin »

Hi,

I found a blogger's personal account of his Vipassana experience. It's interesting and you can find his blog over here:

http://www.princeroy.org/

Fair Warning: this will be a long post. If you have no interest in meditation, you might want to skip this one.

My Vipassana Encounter

I want to describe my recent experience of a 10-day Vipassana (vi-PASH-ana) meditation retreat I did in Onalaska, Washington. It is the course offered by the worldwide Vipassana organization of S.N. Goenka, a charismatic individual who has been teaching the technique for several decades. Goenka-ji is from Burma, but his heritage is Indian and Hindu. He learned the technique from a Burmese layperson, who in turn studied it under a Burmese Buddhist monastic. Goenka-ji has since introduced the technique to thousands all over the world. I first heard about the course while in law school at UCLA, and actually signed up for it at the northern California center, but was unable to attend. This method strives to avoid the appearance of sectarianism (how successfully it does so is open to debate), and in fact many participants are not Buddhists.
Goenka-ji claims that the Buddha himself developed this form of meditation, and that it has been handed down unchanged from that time by teacher to disciple. He further states that it is therefore the purest form of Vipassana meditation, of which there are many kinds, and is the only true way to ultimate liberation. Of course, his assertions are impossible to validate. Many other schools of meditation make the same claims. Still, I wanted to give it a fair trial, as it is connected with the Theravadan tradition of Buddhism, which I have always found especially appealing.
We checked in at the center on the afternoon of April 5. The course did not officially begin until 8pm that evening so we had a few hours to settle in. Course participants bunked in male and female dorms. They provided us a very tasty meal of soup and salad (all veg, as was every meal throughout the course), and at 8 they went over the course ground rules. First, there would be absolutely no mingling of genders. Males and females each had their own living, eating, and walking areas. Though we would share the same meditation hall for group sittings, we would sit on separate sides of the room. Second, we would all undertake to strictly observe the five lay precepts of Buddhism. Third, we must maintain ‘Noble Silence’ at all times for the entire ten-day period. We could ask our teachers questions pertaining to the meditation technique at specified times, but otherwise we were to refrain from speaking at all times, especially to other participants. We also had to take refuge in the Triple Gem, at least for the ten-day course. This was not an issue for me—I formally took refuge in July 2003, but Goenka-ji explained this requirement in a way that might make it possible for a non-Buddhist to accept and feel there was no conversion going on here. Again, I think this is open to debate. I should specify here that Goenka-ji was not present at our course site. Rather, we learned and practiced the technique through daily video and audio tape lectures of a course Goenka led in the US in 1991. We sat in the meditation hall and his two authorized assistant teachers, one male and one female, guided the course sitting on a raised platform at the front of the room. They would answer any questions during breaks, for an hour during the two-hour lunch break/rest period, and after the final group meditation in the evening.
The technique: for the first three days we focused solely on the act of natural respiration. We concentrated on respiration at the small triangular area formed by the nostrils and upper lip. By doing this, we learned how to focus our minds ever more sharply. On the fourth day, we began the actual practice of Vipassana. This consists in carefully and mindfully examining each part of the body from head to toe, objectively observing any and all sensations without reacting to them, at all times keeping in mind anicca, or impermanence. All sensations, no matter whether pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral, arise and eventually pass away. The goal is to maintain an equanimous mind when observing them, therefore training ourselves to form no craving or aversions to bodily or mental sensations. From Day Five we began doing three sittings per day in the morning, afternoon and evening of 'Strong Determination' or Adhitthana. During these sittings lasting one hour each, we were to try with all our might not to move our hands, feet or open our eyes. That was no problem for me, but I had two intense experiences on the first and second days, one mental and one physical: on the first day at the afternoon sitting I had very strange mental formations bordering on hallucinations. These took the form of extraordinarily real-like conversations and visions in which I both observed and participated. I definitely was not asleep as I was aware of my own respiration and the movements and fidgeting of other meditators in the room. At the most frightening point, I became convinced that everyone in the hall was slowly asphyxiating through carbon monoxide poisoning, either accidentally or deliberately. I came really close to shouting for everyone to get out of the building. At the same time on the next day, I experienced unbearable pain in my legs because I chose to sit in the half-lotus. Somehow I made it through without violating adhitthana discipline, but it literally took minutes after the sitting ended before I could move. Another curious effect of these adhitthana sittings is that my eyes would water, but I was not crying. By the end of the course, I came to really appreciate these sittings, as I became quite proficient at focusing my mind on observing subtle, acute sensations occurring throughout my mind and body simultaneously.
The theory of Vipassana: this is way beyond the scope of this post, but simply put, the underpinnings of this technique lie in classic Buddhist doctrine. The unsatisfactoriness (dukkha) of life is due to tanha: craving and aversion. This concept is not unique to Buddhism, however—Indian philosophers before and after Siddhartha Gautama all understood this. His breakthrough consisted in the realization that what we feel craving and aversion for are not the actual objects of our cravings and aversions themselves, but the physical and mental sensations we feel in the body and mind as a result. The path to liberation lies in not forming attachments to these sensations so that craving and aversion do not arise, thereby ceasing the production of samkhara (conditioned states/mental formations). To practice Vipassana properly requires a strong foundation of sila (conduct), samadhi (concentration) and pañña (wisdom). This is why Goenka-ji insists on an intensive ten-day course in isolation from the mundane world to properly learn the technique, so that students can establish this base.
Analysis: this retreat turned out to be a very challenging experience, much more so than the monastic retreat I did in the summer of 2003. We woke up daily at 4am and did not sleep until around 10pm. We had to practice the technique, either in groups or alone, for upwards of 12 hours each day. Sitting still and concentrating for such long periods turned out to be extremely difficult for me. Oftentimes, it became too intense and I would have to take long walks outside. I consider myself to be a well-adjusted person, and content for the most part, but I guarantee that anyone who conscientiously applies this technique cannot help but confront issues deep in the mind that we all would like to keep submerged. It can be quite painful. Many people find they cannot complete the course. The first 6 days were tough for me, and in retrospect it is fortunate that I did not have a car there or it is possible I would have left on any of those days. It wasn’t until Day 7 that everything began to fall into place for me, but who knows: if the course was 20 days instead of just 10, I still might have wanted to leave.
Each night we would watch a dharma talk by Goenka-ji. He is an above average speaker, who can clearly explain the technique and the dharma involved in a motivational way with many amusing anecdotes. I felt the quality of the lectures diminished somewhat in the final three days, however. I also think he tends to oversimplify Buddhist doctrine in an attempt to make it more palatable for Westerners and non-Buddhists in particular. His repeated claims that the course is non-sectarian is somewhat disingenuous, especially as he chants Buddhist suttas in Pali for extended periods during the course, and participants have no idea what he is saying. However, I do agree with him that the practice of Vipassana can be appropriate for a person of any faith. He borders on making exaggerated claims as to its efficacy at times, with anecdotes of how substance abusers, drug and alcohol addicts, etc, are totally transformed after only one ten-day course. I find that hard to believe. He also continually refers to the dharma developed by the Buddha as ‘scientific’. I may address this issue in a future post, but for now I will simply state that this is an inaccurate and potentially dangerous assertion.
Living conditions at the course were quite adequate. Our lodgings were clean and comfortable, and they provided us ample time to rest and shower. The food was excellent, but I have to qualify that by stating that I am a person who prefers a vegetarian diet. They provide two meals a day—breakfast and lunch, with a tea and fruit break at 5pm. For the last few days I only ate at lunch, and wish I had started doing so from Day 5. Goenka-ji instructed us early in the course that eating to a feeling of fullness hampers progress in meditation, and I discovered he is absolutely correct. My ideal turned out to be about 40% of what I normally consume. Of course, other than daily walks, my caloric needs were much less than in the outside world. It’s interesting to discover that even this long after the course, though, I could still easily eat just once a day.
The quality of the teachers left something to be desired. Although they were proficient in the technique, I came away thinking they were not very knowledgeable about more complex Buddhist philosophical concepts. Their understanding seemed grounded in American Buddhism with taints of the New Age. I have a lot of problems with American Buddhism, but that’s a subject for a different post. On our final day after they released us from Noble Silence, I spoke with some ‘old’ students who were there to take another course (Goenka-ji strongly recommends practitioners participate in at least one ten-day course per year), and I was highly surprised that to a person they did not know anything in-depth about Buddhism, or the suttas. More troubling to me, they seemed completely incurious. Fair enough, Buddha himself said not to rely on any one teacher or texts, but I would think that if they have adopted this form of meditation practice they would be more interested in exploring the rest of the Buddhist canon.
There has been speculation as to whether Goenka-ji’s organization is a cult. I have to say that I did not feel that to be the case at any moment. I don’t think Vipassana practitioners pay Goenka-ji undue reverence, only a heightened display of respect towards a teacher that is quite common in the Asian tradition. It is true that the technique requires students to cut themselves off from the outside world for 10 days, but I consider that a rational condition of this course—it requires intensive, concentrated effort to develop the sila, samadhi and pañña necessary to learn the technique properly. I was able to make a phone call when I absolutely had to, and when one woman slipped and broke her nose, she left immediately for medical care. I consider this to be a legitimate organization that is very well run, for the most part, by committed, dedicated practitioners who believe this technique has helped them lead more fulfilling lives. Instruction, room and board are all provided absolutely free of charge. They request that upon completion of the course a student make a donation to cover the cost of a future student, but there is no excessive pressure to do so. In fact, I have yet to send in a donation (though I will in the next few days) and no one from this organization has contacted me about it. If you would like additional opinions, I provide other links of people who have taken the course here, here, and here.
Bottom line: the retreat was a fascinating experience and I’m glad I did it because I learned many valuable things about myself. I still haven’t decided whether this technique is suited for me, and I plan to experiment with other forms of meditation in Taiwan. I recommend others take the course, but be forewarned, it is not easy. Go there with a proper open and receptive attitude. Go there prepared to work hard. If you do try it out, please email me, I’d love to hear your own experience.
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