Wikipedia.. Reshaping WaiSays.com

[RRM]

BlueFrog, I'm a little confused.
Shouldn't the book on FreeAcneBook.com just be in pdf so that it is printable? (Adobe Acrobat) Or in both (2 versions), and the php version with only that right hand navigation bar?

And shouldn't we better use the left hand navigation bar just for waisays.com and the related websites? (waisays3, waisays4 etc)

Now the book and the websites are intertwined, and it seems a bit confusing as to what is what. Maybe we should just leave the book as to what it is, just as we leave this forum without additional navigation bar?

What do you guys think?

[RRM]

Nick and Wintran, some small points regarding the Wikipedia intro (as we may use it as a description of the anti acne diet):

In contrast to fruitarianism, this diet also uses raw fish and raw egg yolk as a source for protein.

...as a source for vitamin B12, good cholesterol, specific omega-3 fats and more protein.
Or is that too much info for an intro?

Heat changes their chemical make-up and digestive enzymes cannot fully break down these “dirty” protein peptides, connected chains of amino acids.

...connected chains of amino acids including damaged ones.

where this “dirty” protein attracts water from the true skin

...from the outer skin

This can exacerbate the acne, as the more sebum is produced the more the sebum canals can be pinched.

as the more sebum is produced the more readily pores get clogged when the sebum canals are pinched

So we need to decrease the amount of "dirty" protein in order to decrease the water pressure in our skin.

...the amount of 'dirty' protein and other water-attracting molecules (such as salt and spices) in order to...

Too bad it got deleted, but thank you for posting it!

[nick]

That is exactly what I thought too!

I think a navigation bar would be perfect for the site alone.

Would you change the existing layout of the article link front page?

The book in pdf form so people can download it and read from their own computer and to print it out should be good enough.

However, the first ten chapters give a great explanation on heat, fire and protein and so on. So in the summary/intro page we need to link to it so as people at least know.

RRM, your editorial edits are much more precise. I'll make the changes. Thanks.

[BlueFrog]

Shouldn't the book on FreeAcneBook.com just be in pdf so that it is printable? (Adobe Acrobat) Or in both (2 versions), and the php version with only that right hand navigation bar?

You can. I was thinking more along the lines of maintaining the online version along with the printable version. That way you won't alienate those that are hesitant to download material from 'unknown' websites and site visitors can view whichever version they prefer. But, it's up to you.

And shouldn't we better use the left hand navigation bar just for waisays.com and the related websites? (waisays3, waisays4 etc)

We could. But, I find the set up as it is confusing. For example, some of the links in the diet book take me to links on Waisays.com and there is no indication that I have been taken to a different site and there is not a navigation system set up for me to get back to the acne book easily.

I think I'm viewing the website from a completely different angle. My original suggestion was to make the website easier to navigate and more cohesive. The approach that makes the most sense to me is to present Waisays.com as a view on diet and health with each of the aspects (the acne book, the theories on osteoporosis, diabetes, etc.) presented under the umbrella of Waisays.com, especially since they refer to eachother in internal links within the individual documents.

If you'd like to maintain the separate sites, then you've got two projects instead of one and still have the problem of links that take you back to Waisays.com without offering an obvious way to get back to where you were.

Having a 'master' navigation bar running through every page lets you go wherever you want no matter where the links take you. But, maybe there's a better solution?

[nick]

Here are the two prd's
http://overbitespictures.com/waisays.co ... pdf's.html

BlueFrog, that is a good point.

The more I think about it, the book would be more accessible through being on the nav bar.

I like that idea!

[RRM]

Wow, you guys are amazing!

[RRM]

BlueFrog:

I was thinking more along the lines of maintaining the online version along with the printable version.

Perfect. I totally agree.

I find the set up as it is confusing.

I think we should listen to that. I've lost the capacity to look at these sites objectively a long time ago.

some of the links in the diet book take me to links on Waisays.com and there is no indication that I have been taken to a different site

Very good point.
How about this:
The book (both in pdf as in html/php) has its own navigation bar, and all linking to waisays.com, the board or other websites are through hyperlinking in blue and underlined, where as its own navigation bar is very different?

To me it seems important to keep waisays.com, the book and the board clearly separated (intertwined by hyperlinking, and by carring eachother's logos) with separate navigation bars (the boards already have)

In that respect, all linking in between waisays sites should also not appear as hyperlinks (in blue and underlined)

The approach that makes the most sense to me is to present Waisays.com as a view on diet and health with each of the aspects (the acne book, the theories on osteoporosis, diabetes, etc.) presented under the umbrella of Waisays.com, especially since they refer to eachother in internal links within the individual documents.

I'd rather see a trinity:
Waisays.com as the umbrella for the waisays info sites, the book as the umbrella for all the info in the book (all the chapters) and WaiTalk as the umbrella for the boards (there will also be one in dutch).

If you'd like to maintain the separate sites, then you've got two projects instead of one and still have the problem of links that take you back to Waisays.com without offering an obvious way to get back to where you were.

True, but what if every page of every site contains 2 (the 2 'other') of the 3 logos? (there are 3 logos; WaiSays, WaiTalk and The Book)

Having a 'master' navigation bar running through every page lets you go wherever you want no matter where the links take you. But, maybe there's a better solution?

Maybe those 3 logos may serve as the master navigation, with all 3 sections having there own navigation bar?

[RRM]

Hmmm, at the moment I cannot download the pdf files, because my internet comp is on the verge of collapsing. I will retry on a different comp later.
But: Thank you Nick!!!

PS: Isn't it possible to have 3 navigation bars in every page (in one bar), with 2 (the 'other' 2) of the 3 'hidden' behind a logo?

For example: on every page of the book you see this bar:

The Book
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
etc
Sources
WaiSays
WaiTalk

So that you just see the 'logos' of WaiSays and WaiTalk as well as the layed out index of the book, and only if you point at WaiSays, for example, you see the navigation bar of the waisays sites.
And, consequently, on every WaiSays page you see the full navigation bar for all the waisays articles plus the 'logos' WaiTalk and TheBook, with their navigation bars only becoming visible if you point at the logo.

[nick]

Very good point.
How about this:
The book (both in pdf as in html/php) has its own navigation bar, and all linking to waisays.com, the board or other websites are through hyperlinking in blue and underlined, where as its own navigation bar is very different?

To me it seems important to keep waisays.com, the book and the board clearly separated (intertwined by hyperlinking, and by carring eachother's logos) with separate navigation bars (the boards already have)

In that respect, all linking in between waisays sites should also not appear as hyperlinks (in blue and underlined)



Great Idea! This works for me. Wintran, any comments on this?

I'd rather see a trinity:
Waisays.com as the umbrella for the waisays info sites, the book as the umbrella for all the info in the book (all the chapters) and WaiTalk as the umbrella for the boards (there will also be one in dutch).


Absolutely! This will be great.

I like your logo idea. I think this idea would be perfect for the site. WaiSays, WaiTalk, WaiBook, or just TheBook?

Then for each logo you have a drop down menu for different parts of each site?

But if you clicked on the main logo for WaiSays, then it would take you to the main site for WaiSays. Same the Book. But if you hover over the logo you will see a quick link to the chapters and so on...

RRM, would you keep the original waisays main page and just add the new navigation bar. Because with the navbar, how many articles do you want to be on it. Maybe for the WaiSays site, you have to change the flow/layout of it. So that you have the nutrient calculator, the articles, the osteoporosis link with some description text, intro/summary page of the diet. I think some simple re-arranging would be all it would need.

I hope the osteoporosis pdf comes in handy if you needed to print it out or send it to some scientist you could just send him/her the pdf.

[RRM]

WaiBook, or just TheBook?

WaiBook may be better (may be a tad pretentious to refer to it as is done to the bible ), and consitent with other names.

Then for each logo you have a drop down menu for different parts of each site?

Yes, and is it possible to have multiple layers of 'dropping down'?
For example: WaiSays > Osteoporosis > Scientific article > response by scientists

But if you clicked on the main logo for WaiSays, then it would take you to the main site for WaiSays. Same the Book. But if you hover over the logo you will see a quick link to the chapters and so on...

Exactly

RRM, would you keep the original waisays main page and just add the new navigation bar. Because with the navbar, how many articles do you want to be on it. Maybe for the WaiSays site, you have to change the flow/layout of it. So that you have the nutrient calculator, the articles, the osteoporosis link with some description text, intro/summary page of the diet. I think some simple re-arranging would be all it would need.

Yes, I talked to Wai about it, and we all seem to agree.

I hope the osteoporosis pdf comes in handy if you needed to print it out or send it to some scientist you could just send him/her the pdf.

Thank you, that's very friendly!
I've published the book.pdf, so that we can take a look at it:
www.freeacnebook.com/FreeAcneBook.pdf

[RRM]

Maybe we should eliminate the page: "how to print out this book", because it's all different with pdf

[Oscar]

It seems the Wikipedia article has been deleted...

Personally I think that the Wai Diet has far greater impact than "just" getting rid of acne. Even though she allows for munch-foods, the strict diet is the real treasure, as far as I'm concerned, and that for total health.

I do agree that the Wai site isn't that user-friendly, and could use a revamp.

I'm currently composing a kind of overview about the important issues of all the articles, just to get a better grip on the scientific background.

Oscar

[BlueFrog]

I've been holding off on responding to what you said trying to make it work in my mind, but it still doesn't make much sense to me. It's only creating more of the same confusion. One of the problems now is you're jumping back and forth between different sites and it's not intuitively apparent why they are even different sites if they're supporting one another. Intertwining three different sites is only adding to the confusion, especially if you don't start reading on page 1, as most people don't today with the popularity of Google and other search engines.

And, it is not clear to me why it necessary to keep the forums separate from the book. These forums are only here to support the book/diet. They serve no purpose without it. I'm sure you have your reasons, but they are not clear to me. Perhaps it would be better to have someone who understands your goals and reasoning better work on the site.

BTW, I forgot to respond earlier. I missed the explanation on the nutrition calculator. Yes, it seems sufficient.

[RRM]

BlueFrog
One of the problems now is you're jumping back and forth between different sites and it's not intuitively apparent why they are even different sites if they're supporting one another.

They are different sites solely because they serve different purposes.
WaiSays is a read only loose collection of articles. You can start wherever you want.
WaiBook is also read only, but with a 'storyline'; it is created to be read from the beginning.
WaiTalk is interactive.

Once the new navigation bar has been installed, every page of all sites will show you where you can go to: WaiSays, WaiBook, WaiTalk
Some visitors just want to read the book first; they know where to find it. Others are just interested in a certain subject; they can find it categorised on WaiSays. And then some of these visitors may want to talk about it, and want to know where to go.

and it's not intuitively apparent why they are even different sites if they're supporting one another.

Then it will be, because of the names.

Intertwining three different sites is only adding to the confusion

Not if they clearly have very different purposes; book, loose articles, interaction

especially if you don't start reading on page 1, as most people don't today with the popularity of Google and other search engines.

If you enter on a page in the book, you will see "chapter 15" or something similar, making you clear that you are reading a book.
If you enter through WaiTalk, there is no mistake: this is a discussion board.
If you enter on a WaiSays article, you can see its an article (maybe it should say: "Wai Says" before the title of any article).
And in all 3 cases, you can take a look at the navigation bar, and see that there are 2 other options to this Wai website.

And, it is not clear to me why it necessary to keep the forums separate from the book.

We wount.
Every visitor of the board will one day take a look at the main page of this board, and see that there is also WaiSays and WaiBook.
There is a logo (UBB.classic) on every page of this board, may we can put the 3 logos there? (maybe even with hidden navigation bars?)

These forums are only here to support the book/diet. They serve no purpose without it.

I agree.

I'm sure you have your reasons, but they are not clear to me.

There are no.
I'm not trying to keep the 3 separate. That's why i'm wholeheartedly responding to the initiatives of you, Wintran and Nick.

Perhaps it would be better to have someone who understands your goals and reasoning better work on the site.

I couldn't make my goals more clear to anyone else, other than by honestly using my limited reasoning capacity as I'm currently doing here.

[RRM]

BlueFrog,
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding you.
Reviewing http://www.simplyskintastic.com/Wai/diet_book.php
I'm wondering:

- In this example, there are 2 navigation bars (left hand and right hand) in one page, wouldn't that be friendlier to have just one? (integrated)

- Here the left hand navigation bar doesnt contain a reference to the book, is that intentional? Where would it be?

- Regarding the recipes you have a point; maybe it should be prominent in the navigation bar, but how?
Maybe (here I go again) there could be an additional section: WaiDiet, with the following subsections
* An introduction to the diet
* recipes
* disclaimer
* testimonies
* calculator
* nutrition data

and subsequently the 3 other sections:
* health articles
* the online book
* forums

In that case there might be only 1 navigation bar. What do you think BlueFrog?

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