Sugar and fat causing indigestion?

What oil? Which vinegar? What about sugar?
Wintran
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Post by Wintran »

avo wrote:How do you know when blood sugar is high? I mean, what are the signs, what do you feel?
I'm not really that good at interpreting my blood sugar levels, and I think I could definitely use more practice and less munch foods that mess up my system. However, I have at some occasions felt a difference when eating too much honey in one setting, and not balanced it with fat. What I feel is a kind of irritating energy, somewhat like when you have an annoying toothache that keeps distracting you. I feel like I must keep active, such as moving hands and feet, and I can't really focus. After I ate an avocado (which tasted better than ever) it took about a minute and then I felt so much calmer and more satisfied than the minute before.

Also, check out this research I found called Effect of added fat on the plasma glucose and insulin response to ingested potato given in various combinations as two meals in normal individuals. Based on ingesting carbohydrates (potatoes) with or without fat (butter), it shows that even though insulin response was the same, having a potato with fat resulted in a lower blood glucose level than eating the potato alone.
avo wrote:You say you feel this with honey, what about just whole fruit? If you feel this with whole fruits in their natural state, then it is obviously a natural reaction, not something to be avoided. If you don't feel this with whole fruits, then you should eat whole fruits instead of honey. :)
I'm not sure, but I generally don't feel the same with fruits, maybe because they contain more fibre and less concentrated sugars compared to honey (i.e. it might be easier to overeat on honey). Honey works great as long as I combine it with fats, such as hazelnuts, avocados or butter (though butter is not really the best source of fat).
Hannes
finnishfiend
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Post by finnishfiend »

Wintran,

I am not fully sure what signs you are interpreting as being high blood sugar levels, but maybe it is something else? For example, I seem to feel kind of heavy headed/bloated after eating more than a small amount of sucrose... but I don't seem to have this problem with glucose, fructose, or starches.

I think this might be because I have a sucrase deficiency. And it makes sense if I look at my ancestors from Northern Europe: Their diet has been devoid of sucrose for the past tens of thousands of years...

Might you actually be experiencing a problem with galactose/sucrose rather than blood sugar levels? (Sucrose is found in table sugar, some fruits [but usually in very small amounts]... galactose is found in honey)

(I am not even sure if I have sucrase deficiency, but it is the only explanation I can come up with at the moment to explain the discrepency between my apparent sucrose problem and lack of a problem with other carbs in general)
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Oscar
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Post by Oscar »

finnishfiend wrote:...Sucrose is found in [...] some fruits [but usually in very small amounts]...
It varies quite a bit, from 0% 'til about 8%, which is the same for the percentages of glucose and fructose, so I don't think we can speak of very small amounts.
avo
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Post by avo »

Wintran, so you don't feel it's necessary to have fats when eating fruits.
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Post by avo »

Oops, that should have been a question. I was going to say more but now I lost what I was thinking about, oh well.
Wintran
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Post by Wintran »

finnishfiend wrote:I am not fully sure what signs you are interpreting as being high blood sugar levels, but maybe it is something else? For example, I seem to feel kind of heavy headed/bloated after eating more than a small amount of sucrose... but I don't seem to have this problem with glucose, fructose, or starches.
Well, my signs are more towards the hyper-active feeling, when you can't focus because you feel too energetic. For me, I believe that's the sign of a too high blood sugar level that can't be regulated by the body because of the lack of fat.

With what type of sucrose do you feel this bloating effect? Do you mean when you eat plain table sugar? If so, do you eat the table sugar alone or together with some other type of food?
finnishfiend wrote:I think this might be because I have a sucrase deficiency. And it makes sense if I look at my ancestors from Northern Europe: Their diet has been devoid of sucrose for the past tens of thousands of years...
I'm not really sure you can be sucrose deficient. From what I've read, sucrose is actually just a combination of fructose and pure glucose, which means it's a source of energy and not really a vitamin or mineral that you can be deficient in (though you can, of course, ingest too little energy, which would make you "deficient" of carbohydrates in general). What makes you think our ancestors from northern Europe didn't have sucrose available in their diet?
finnishfiend wrote:Might you actually be experiencing a problem with galactose/sucrose rather than blood sugar levels? (Sucrose is found in table sugar, some fruits [but usually in very small amounts]... galactose is found in honey)
Are you sure galactose is found in honey? According to most sources I've seen, honey consists mostly of fructose and glucose, and only very small amounts of sucrose. I don't think it contains any galactose at all.
finnishfiend wrote:(I am not even sure if I have sucrase deficiency, but it is the only explanation I can come up with at the moment to explain the discrepency between my apparent sucrose problem and lack of a problem with other carbs in general)
I don't really know, but it's an interesting observation. But once again, under what circumstances are you feeling this difference between sucrose and other carbohydrates?
Hannes
Wintran
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Post by Wintran »

avo wrote:Wintran, so you don't feel it's necessary to have fats when eating fruits.
Well, I'm sure it depends a lot on what type of fruits I eat. With the typical banana or apple I find it hard to overeat to the extent that would cause my blood sugar levels to get so high that my body needs to regulate them using fat. Instead I feel that I'm only able to eat the banana when my body really needs the energy.

I'm starting to believe that foods with higher density of carbohydrates and that might have a higher GI (glycemic index) are easier to overeat on. At least in regard to the more pure foods such as fruits, and not the addicting cooked foods that Wai often mention as these contain certain substances that are a more obvious cause for overeating.
Hannes
finnishfiend
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Post by finnishfiend »

Oscar wrote: It varies quite a bit, from 0% 'til about 8%, which is the same for the percentages of glucose and fructose, so I don't think we can speak of very small amounts.
You are right. It does vary. I over-generalized.




Wintran wrote:With what type of sucrose do you feel this bloating effect? Do you mean when you eat plain table sugar? If so, do you eat the table sugar alone or together with some other type of food?
I actually have only vaguely observed this. But it was freshly on my mind, so it got more focus than it would have if I had done more careful experiments.
Wintran wrote:I'm not really sure you can be sucrose deficient.
Not sucrose, sucrase- the enzyme which breaks apart sucrose into glucose/fructose. Sucrase deficiency is apparently very rare, but it is most likely to occur in people with genetics from arctic regions (like me).
Wintran wrote:Are you sure galactose is found in honey? According to most sources I've seen, honey consists mostly of fructose and glucose, and only very small amounts of sucrose. I don't think it contains any galactose at all.
Oh, you are basically right. I thought there was more galactose in honey for some reason... but apparently honey is mostly just glucose/fructose, with a pinch of galactose. (I should add this to the OO+OJ drinks!)
Wintran wrote:I don't really know, but it's an interesting observation. But once again, under what circumstances are you feeling this difference between sucrose and other carbohydrates?
Well, ironically it seems to be most pronounced when I do the OJ+OO+sucrose drink.... (even when I [subjectively] don't drink too much in a short period of time). The drink doesn't affect me when I just do OO+OJ (store-bought, high pulp... which supports the blood-sugar aspect), but when I add sucrose, problems seem to start.

But I just looked up OJ and realized that it has a lot of sucrose... so I guess I have less of a leg to stand on with my sucrase deficiency theory. However, perhaps there is a threshold which is crossed when I add extra sucrose. And, maybe blood sugar plays more of a role in my experiences than I thought.... though it sure seems like I took tiny, tiny sips of the OJ+OO+sucrose drink (it seems like if I drank it any slower, I'd be a skeleton in a week!!)... but maybe I still didn't do it right. And the pulp from the store-bought OJ might slow absorption. (As you can probably tell, I haven't really followed the Wai diet for any extended period of time. But I am still intrigued with it)
finnishfiend
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Post by finnishfiend »

finnishfiend wrote:But it was freshly on my mind, so it got more focus than it would have if I had done more careful experiments.
And yes... I just realized how little sense that sentence made... :P
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Post by andyville »

Oscar (or someone else)

At the moment my diet basically consists of orange juice, olive oil and egg yolks in various combinations. In other words, I hardly eat any solid food. I've noticed that I don't have to do Almighty Number Two at the bathroom that often since starting this diet; is this because the food I eat doesn't cause as much waste in the body as it used to? Or is this a problem that I should look into? Could it be the orange juice/olive oil combination causing indigestion? I've never suffered from this before...
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Oscar
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Post by Oscar »

You're getting less fiber, because you're juicing, so it's normal that there's less waste, which means less excrement.
Wintran
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Post by Wintran »

finnishfiend wrote:Not sucrose, sucrase- the enzyme which breaks apart sucrose into glucose/fructose. Sucrase deficiency is apparently very rare, but it is most likely to occur in people with genetics from arctic regions (like me).
Oh, sorry, I didn't know there was such a thing called sucrase (thought you misspelled "sucrose" :oops:). Sounds very interesting, I'll have to read more about it!
finnishfiend wrote: Well, ironically it seems to be most pronounced when I do the OJ+OO+sucrose drink....
Is sucrose present in freshly pressed OJ as well? Maybe, if you're doing pasteurized store-bought juices, you could try finding a brand that has "no sugar added" on it? Or maybe that's what you're already using? It's interesting nonetheless that you feel a difference when adding the table sugar to the OJ+OO combination...
Hannes
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Post by Cairidh »

I nearly always eat avocado with fruit and its never given me indigestion.

I've always had extremely slow digestion though (long before I started eating "fats") so I've no idea if it slows my digestion down.

Most S.A.D. eaters eat sugar and fat together every day without ever having indigestion.
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Oscar
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Post by Oscar »

Wintran wrote:Is sucrose present in freshly pressed OJ as well?
Normally about half of the sugars in OJ is sucrose.
Wintran
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Post by Wintran »

Oscar wrote: Normally about half of the sugars in OJ is sucrose.
Ah, I see. Hmm, then it shouldn't really make that much of a difference if we add additional sucrose through table sugar...
Hannes
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