Potassium / calcium / magnesium ratio

About specific vitamines, minerals or fiber, for example
398669
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Potassium / calcium / magnesium ratio

Post by 398669 »

I'm brand new to this board and I am looking into the fruit diet myself. I have a concern and I would very much appreciate if someone could address it and put me at ease. My concern is the ratio of magnesium to potassium in almost all of the fruits. Calcium magnesium and potassium should be in balance and I have forgotten what the propotion of potassium should be. Calcium should be 2X magnesium.
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RRM
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Re: Potassium / calcium / magnesium ratio

Post by RRM »

398669 wrote:My concern is the ratio of magnesium to potassium in almost all of the fruits.
Actually, that ratio widely differs in fruits.
So, what is your concern, exactly? Too little magnesium?
An average version of this diet (3 L OJ, 4 bananas, 1 avocado, 100 g. of salmon) may have a 594 : 9375 ratio (1:16)
In human milk the ratio is similar: 1:15, so that may seem appropriate, no?
If still worried, then pick those fruits/foods with the highest magnesium : potassium ratio.
A version comprising a handful of Brazil nuts, 1 cup of coconut meat, 4 egg yolks, 1 mango,, 1 pineapple,
1 papaya and 11 bananas, supplies you with a 680 : 7359 ratio (1:11)

magnesium : potassium
1:4 Brazil nuts
1:5 papaya
1:9 egg yolk
1:10 coconut
1:10 pineapple
1:10 chicken
1:11 banana
1:11 mango
1:12 figs
1:13 OJ
1:13 dates
1:13 kiwi
1:13 salmon
1:13 mackerel
1:15 human milk
1:15 beef
1:16 pear
1:17 avocado
1:19 mandarin
1:18 tomatoes
1:22 veal
1:22 plums
1:22 guava
1:23 apple
1:23 peach
1:30 apricot
1:33 muskmelon
1:54 watermelon
Calcium magnesium and potassium should be in balance and I have forgotten what the propotion of potassium should be
Its quite simple:
If you get enough of all these nutrients, but not too much, its ok.
Potassium is not a nutrient to worry about, in this diet. (no deficiency possible, and excess unlikely)
As this diet excludes beans, milk and cheese, excess calcium is not an issue either,
and its also very unlikely that you will lack calcium, as its absorption rate is readily increased when calcium availability is low.
Magnesium is also sufficiently available; the RDAs for magnesium range from 250 to 350 mg, and this diet always supplies you with more than that.
If you think your version of this diet is low in any of these nutrients,
just incorporate some of the foods that are high in this ('lacking') nutrient into your diet:
http://www.waiworld.com/waidiet/nut-foodpernut.html
and then submit your version of the diet to the nutrient calculator for verification.
http://www.waiworld.com/waidiet/nut-calcsimple.html
Calcium should be 2X magnesium.
Calcium intake should be that high to prevent osteoporosis?
overkees
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magnesium

Post by overkees »

I found a very interestng article about the role of magnesium in calcium absorption. Another motivation why we don't need that extra glass of milk they keep advertising to us.
http://www.mgwater.com/calmagab.shtml
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Re: Potassium / calcium / magnesium ratio

Post by RRM »

Its true, magnesium is essential, and this diet provides sufficient magnesium.
Much of the article makes little sense to me though...
overkees
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Re: Potassium / calcium / magnesium ratio

Post by overkees »

Okay I read alot about ratios and stuff. But there isn't some sort of logical fist rule. RRM, maybe you could enlighten us on the ratios? Like phosphorus is needed for a lot of conversions in the human body so it seems like the phosphorus is one of the key minerals that regulate the balance.

This site saying that the mag:cal should be 2:1 the other stating that its the other way around. I don't know what to believe any more? Should we stick to the human milk ratios? Or is that too much of certain minerals that are for growth and not so much for regeneration principles?

Maybe a few links to decent scientific articles? Would be a lot of help! Or should we look at the WHO's opinion of advised daily intakes? But they were wrong when it comes to calcium too.

Maybe we should have a look at insects and worms to see how much calcium they contain? Or brain tissue?
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Re: Potassium / calcium / magnesium ratio

Post by RRM »

overkees wrote:there isn't some sort of logical fist rule.
Indeed.
Its because our body is very adaptive; uptake ratios may vary widely.
Like phosphorus is needed for a lot of conversions in the human body so it seems like the phosphorus is one of the key minerals that regulate the balance.
All the minerals that we need are key minerals.
They all are essential in maintaining the right balance.
Moderation is usually sufficient.
This site saying that the mag:cal should be 2:1 the other stating that its the other way around. I don't know what to believe any more?
They are both right and wrong.
Dont worry about it, as long as your ratios are not 10-fold different.
Should we stick to the human milk ratios? Or is that too much of certain minerals that are for growth and not so much for regeneration principles?
these ratios are also safe, indeed.
Or should we look at the WHO's opinion of advised daily intakes? But they were wrong when it comes to calcium too.
Yes, thats why you dont just need to look at the RDAs, but also the rationales behind those.
I have not come across such a 'huge impact' rationale as the one on which calcium RDAs are based.
dime
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Magnesium

Post by dime »

What do you guys think about the RDA for magnesium, do you think it's absolutely important to reach it?

Do we know about any details on how was it derived?
I'm thinking it is perhaps based on the standard diet where quite some magnesium is bound to phytic acid and so is unavailable, so the RDA is pretty high in order to compensate for this. So of course if I eat more beans and whatever I'll get more magnesium, but a lot of it will be anyway unabsorbed.

I've quickly and inaccurately plotted the foods I eat, and I get about 150mg magnesium, or 40% of the RDA. So I'm trying to figure out if I should be concerned or not.

Calcium is 300mg, and it's again a similar argument.. plus the osteoporosis theory here, so I'm less concerned about it.
dime
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Re: Magnesium

Post by dime »

So I'm checking http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=5776&page=190 quite a few pages..

From http://www.nrv.gov.au/nutrients/magnesium.htm
Rationale: The EARs for adults were based on the assumption that the best indicator of adequacy currently available is the level that allows an individual to maintain total body magnesium over time (FNB:IOM 1997). Based primarily on the studies of Greger & Baier (1983), Kelsay & Prather (1983), Kelsay et al (1979), Lakshmanan et al (1984), Mahalko et al (1983), Schwartz et al (1986), Spencer et al (1994a) and Wisker et al (1991) the EARs for adult males are estimated to be 330 mg/day for ages 19-30 years and 350 mg/day at all other ages. Those for adult females are 255 mg/day at 19-30 years and 265 mg/day at all other ages. Assuming a CV of 10% for the EAR, the RDIs are 400 mg/day and 310 mg/day, respectively, for adult men and women aged 19-30 years and 420 mg/day and 320 mg/day, respectively, for men and women aged 31 and over.
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Re: Potassium / calcium / magnesium ratio

Post by RRM »

From Wiki:
Human magnesium deficiency is relatively rare[20] although only 32% of the United States meet the RDA-DRI;[21]
...
Intracellular magnesium is correlated with intracellular potassium.
Magnesium is absorbed in the gastrointestinal tract, with more absorbed when status is lower.
Low and high protein intake inhibit magnesium absorption, and other factors such as phosphate, phytate, and fat affect absorption.
...
Other nutrient deficiencies are identified through biomarkers, but none are established for magnesium.[29]
...
Excess magnesium in the blood is freely filtered at the kidneys, and for this reason it is difficult to overdose on magnesium from dietary sources alone.
dime
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Re: Potassium / calcium / magnesium ratio

Post by dime »

Thanks, I forgot to read the wiki :)
dime
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Re: Potassium / calcium / magnesium ratio

Post by dime »

I could drink perhaps half a liter of this water every day: http://www.springwatershop.com/heppinger.html?sl=EN
It has 200mg magnesium and 150mg of calcium per liter.
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Re: Potassium / calcium / magnesium ratio

Post by RRM »

Sure.
Nuts, coconut and banana contain a lot of magnesium.
And slow-juiced bananas are absolutely delicious.
Kasper
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Calcium:Magnesium?

Post by Kasper »

What would be a healthy ratio of Calcium:Magnesium?
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Re: Calcium:Magnesium?

Post by RRM »

Kasper wrote:What would be a healthy ratio of Calcium:Magnesium?
There is not such a fixed ratio; its more quite a wide a range.
I have been trying to find some info through experimentation.
Since I obtained a few boxes of bananas for a very low price, I decided trying to overdose on magnesium.
I have been doing this experiment for 9 times in total, and each time the result was the same, so its rather reliable, in my view.
On the other hand, as my body is used to drinking loads of OJ with little banana, I may be more sensitive to magnesium-overloading.

The experiment:
Replacing OJ with mango- or melon juice, and increasingly adding banana juice, to drastically change the calcium / magnesium ratio.
Normally, my ratio is about 1:1 to 1.0:1.2
I don't know the mineral contents of banana juice, so im just guessing based on banana contents.
Drinking lots of banana juice, I got nocturnal muscle cramps when my Ca/Mg ratio was below 1:3
Drinking more banana juice the cramps (initially only in my calves, later also my hamstrings) got more intense (extremely painful).
Drinking only OJ the next day, totally eliminated those cramps, each time.

So, my guess is that anything between 1:1 and 1:2 is fine for me.
(assuming that muscle cramps are the first sign of Mg/Ca overload)
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Aytundra
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Re: Potassium / calcium / magnesium ratio

Post by Aytundra »

RRM wrote:I don't know the mineral contents of banana juice, so im just guessing based on banana contents.
So how can you say that you changed the calcium to magnesium ratio?
RRM wrote:Drinking lots of banana juice, I got nocturnal muscle cramps when my Ca/Mg ratio was below 1:3
but you said
RRM wrote:Normally, my ratio is about 1:1 to 1.0:1.2
RRM wrote:So, my guess is that anything between 1:1 and 1:2 is fine for me.
I intuitively read it as 2 is less than 3, 2 is "below" 3, so the ratio of 1:1 and 1:2 are below 1:3.
But maybe I am wrong, and I may have bad reading skills. Help me read.

"Ca/Mg ratio was below 1:3"
As in 25% Ca to 75% Mg, are you saying "below" as in Ca percentage 'decreases' and Mg percentage increases?
I am thinking if 10% Ca and 90% Mg then you will have more frequent or severe cramps?
RRM wrote:(assuming that muscle cramps are the first sign of Mg/Ca overload)
"assuming...first sign of Mg/Ca overload", but what if this is a first sign of K/Ca underload?
There is less potassium to calcium in bananas, compared to potassium to calcium in oranges.
Potassium is also higher in proportion to calcium in mangoes and melons.
Was it potassium or magnesium that caused your muscle cramps? or is it some other factor X?
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