One week water fast ... 'Quick fix'?

moved from 1 up by mods, once they've proved to contain interesting discussions
avalon
Posts: 818
https://cutt.ly/meble-kuchenne-wroclaw
Joined: Thu 23 Feb 2006 17:51

Post by avalon »

RRM:
The body always systematically cleanse itself.
Depriving yourself of essential nutrients is depriving your organs of reconstruction work that normally continously takes place.
Recovery is slowed down.
Your body will be in a state of decomposition.


Your body won't be in a state of decomposition.
From:
http://www.plim.org/2fasting.htm
When fasting is examined in terms of health, the two most popular types of fasts are juice fasting and distilled water fasting. Although fasting experts differ in the type of fasts that they believe is most effective, they all agree on the following. If the energy used for digestion is available for cellular repair, elimination, and rejuvenation, the body will begin to purify and heal itself by utilizing its reserve in inverse order of important. Fat, tumors, and damaged cells go first, vital muscle tissue and essential organs last.
It's very interesting to me because, one- I have water/juice fasted for 3/7 days and have felt terrific results from them each time. I have never felt tired or ill during a fast. And I don't claim to have fasted throughout the years...But it just seems some people, like myself I guess understand it, and some don't. Like it's common sense to me.
User avatar
Oscar
Administrator
Posts: 4350
Joined: Mon 15 Aug 2005 00:01

Post by Oscar »

I'm sure your experience was right, Avalon.

I think we have to distinguish two kinds of people:
1) people who regularly take in toxins through their diet (eg SAD, SRD, vegetarians)
2) people who do not, or irregularly, take in toxins through their diet (eg Wai*)

I use toxins here as a general term for substances harmful to our body.

ad 1) In this situation I think fasting can help clean the body, if only temporarily, unless the toxin intake changes cq stops. I don't think a few days/a week is long enough to clean the body totally though. Years of accumulating harmful substances might very well take (much?) longer to get rid of.
ad 2) In this situation fasting does not help, and is better avoided.
avalon
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu 23 Feb 2006 17:51

Post by avalon »

Oscar,
I think we have to distinguish two kinds of people:
1) people who regularly take in toxins through their diet (eg SAD, SRD, vegetarians)
2) people who do not, or irregularly, take in toxins through their diet (eg Wai*)
When you write SRD. do you mean a 'Sucrose-Rich Diet'? That's what I know SRD to mean so :?:

I know, I know you left so many other toxic tribes out for lack of writing space but 'Vegetarians' cover much ground and to put them in the same group as SAD is well, SAD! Then to go on to separate Wai* as the non-toxic alternative, yet you admit to some toxicity! Irregularly toxic! DOHHH!
ad 1) In this situation I think fasting can help clean the body, if only temporarily, unless the toxin intake changes cq stops. I don't think a few days/a week is long enough to clean the body totally though. Years of accumulating harmful substances might very well take (much?) longer to get rid of.


This is because as I wrote you, you don't understand it. Hopefully, anyone deciding on a fast, knows what it means and will stop the toxic intake from before. Unfortunately, life isn't so balanced and people will regress, or not. People will slip off Wai*, or not. If you blindly do a fast then that's somewhat irresponsible, and not the fault of Fasting, but rather lack of knowledge.
ad 2) In this situation fasting does not help, and is better avoided.
So, you're saying, to anyone on Wai* (100% Sample Diet) fasting should be avoided? I suppose you don't mean then Wai+ people- those who eat icream or cookies/munch-foods though. Or me, who occasionally eats spinach or brown rice. You've written you eat fish everyday. Is there no chance that some of that fish, even some orange/other fruit refuse that you have eaten through the years might still be in you, lodged happily in your colon? And if you are so pristine, you don't seem to understand the other idea, which is to give your system a rest, maybe for the first time in your entire life.

You wrote elsewhere on this forum that sometimes you can't get someone to understand something, no matter how many times you try. I guess we both feel the same way :D

Please don't lock this thread RRM. I'll behave, promise.

In the spirit of a great debate, I say I'm very happy you are so Healthy on Wai*, Oscar. I mean that sincerely.

Avalon
avalon
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu 23 Feb 2006 17:51

Post by avalon »

p.s. andyville,
Did you write 'Quik fix' on the Topic, or was it added by the forum admins? I don't remember that being there...
User avatar
Oscar
Administrator
Posts: 4350
Joined: Mon 15 Aug 2005 00:01

Post by Oscar »

avalon wrote:When you write SRD. do you mean a 'Sucrose-Rich Diet'? That's what I know SRD to mean so :?:
I actually used it for Standard Raw Diet. :)
avalon wrote:I know, I know you left so many other toxic tribes out for lack of writing space but 'Vegetarians' cover much ground and to put them in the same group as SAD is well, SAD! Then to go on to separate Wai* as the non-toxic alternative, yet you admit to some toxicity! Irregularly toxic! DOHHH!
Yes, irregular as in: the body can take care of it without letting it accumulate. Vegetarians in my book eat mainly cooked food. I didn't want to cover all possible diets out there, as I do have other things to do besides this forum... ;)
avalon wrote:This is because as I wrote you, you don't understand it.
Did you write me?? You're right, I don't understand. :?:
avalon wrote:Hopefully, anyone deciding on a fast, knows what it means and will stop the toxic intake from before. Unfortunately, life isn't so balanced and people will regress, or not. People will slip off Wai*, or not.
That is what I meant by "unless the toxin intake changes cq stops", or not.
avalon wrote:So, you're saying, to anyone on Wai* (100% Sample Diet) fasting should be avoided?
Exactly. Normally the body will take of it.
avalon wrote:I suppose you don't mean then Wai+ people- those who eat icream or cookies/munch-foods though. Or me, who occasionally eats spinach or brown rice.
I'm not sure in your case, because you might fall in the 2nd, "irregularly" category. The same goes for other Wai+ people. It all depends on how much the body can handle before it starts accumulating.

You could be right, there might be some mercury (from fish, or amalgam fillings) lodged in me (I don't think anything will be lodged in my colon), and maybe other toxins as well. But if this is indeed the case, and my body cannot take care of it, with my immune system in an optimal state, what can? I don't think a fast can do that.

Could you explain (again) to me, in your own words, how you think a fast technically works? What you give or don't give to the body, how the body reacts to that, why/how it will take care of toxins, how long a fast should last to be (totally) effective, what physiological mechanisms will come into play, etc. I'm really curious. Thanks! :)
avalon wrote:In the spirit of a great debate, I say I'm very happy you are so Healthy on Wai*, Oscar. I mean that sincerely.
Thank you! :D
avalon
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu 23 Feb 2006 17:51

Post by avalon »

This will be another last post thrown on the heaps of last posts, but after a wile E. Coyote it gets exhausting...

There doesn't seem to be too much medical documentation 'online', but there is enough information to make conclusions from.

Here is an interesting link to fasting and mental health. You might say it included meditation etc... still sounds good to me.

http://www.yogamag.net/archives/1981/5may81/jap.shtml

Here's just a page of experiences. Check them out.

http://www.fasting.com/journaltoc.html

Now, maybe even after thousands of years people haven't caught on. Maybe they wait until they are sick, like many do for most things- wait to do something about it. I don't know. I do know if you take the time to read about it, you may change your mind. The scale tilts in favor of fasting. Not every day...maybe every other day as this has been documented with mice- proven, like calorie restriction- yes, not with Humans, yet, but let's see what happens... Maybe with Humans one day.

I am a skeptic to a certain degree. Some things ring true to me and this does. It's mechanics 101/biology... cleanse, repair, release. Once a week, once a year, every two years, never at all... personal choice.

If you don't believe, you may never get to see the magic!
User avatar
RRM
Administrator
Posts: 8164
Joined: Sat 16 Jul 2005 00:01
Contact:

Post by RRM »

avalon wrote:p.s. andyville,
Did you write 'Quik fix' on the Topic, or was it added by the forum admins? I don't remember that being there...
I added that.
If you don't believe, you may never get to see the magic!
Maybe that is what you are looking for: a magical fix.
There is no magical fix, and im not sure about Santa either.

If you want the bathroom floor to be dry, you better prevent the water from spilling over from your filled up bathtub onto the floor.
How?
Not by using towels to dry the floor. Not even by using a magical vacuumcleaner that sucks all the water away.
What you you need to do, is to close the tap first.
Then you will notice that the water will disappear in the drain automatically, eventually.
Maybe they wait until they are sick, like many do for most things- wait to do something about it.
To me, it seems that you see fasting as some kind of temporary cure or fix, in as much as some medication can be a temporary fix/cure.
But do you really think it is better to apply a (temporary) cure/medication as soon as you suspect you are not that healthy?
Whats better?
Prevention, or prematurely applying a temporary cure?
you don't seem to understand the other idea, which is to give your system a rest
Why giving it a rest every now and then, while keeping on beating it up for the rest of the time?
Doesnt it make much more sense to further decrease your daily intake of toxins instead?
Corinne
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon 31 Oct 2005 01:01
Location: Boone, NC
Contact:

Post by Corinne »

@ RRM: LOL :lol:

Thanks RRM! Right on. I always like your practical, down to eath metaphores.
Makes things real clear.
avalon
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu 23 Feb 2006 17:51

Post by avalon »

RRM, by adding "Quick fix" to this post you changed the tone of the original posters heading. That's almost if not actually a manipulation of text. Quick fix implies exactly that, and not 'A one week water fast'.

All I will say is anyone interested in 'Fasting'... do your own research and see what you find out.

RRM wrote:
Why giving it a rest every now and then, while keeping on beating it up for the rest of the time?
Doesnt it make much more sense to further decrease your daily intake of toxins instead?
Who said anything about beating it up the rest of the time. You make assumptions that people can't change their ways. And I can tell you Wai has changed many of my ways, and I still believe in the power of Fasting. And yes, you are right, we should decrease our level of toxins.

Avalon :)

p.s. Corinne :)
User avatar
RRM
Administrator
Posts: 8164
Joined: Sat 16 Jul 2005 00:01
Contact:

Post by RRM »

avalon wrote:RRM, by adding "Quick fix" to this post you changed the tone of the original posters heading. That's almost if not actually a manipulation of text.
True.
Uou make assumptions that people can't change their ways.
No.
Im saying that if you can change your ways, then a fast will not do you any good, but the change may.
And if you cannot change, then the fast will not make you healthier either.
I still believe in the power of Fasting.
We are all free to believe whatever we want.
And yes, you are right, we should decrease our level of toxins.
And still let the toxins come in?
nick
Moderator
Posts: 534
Joined: Tue 09 Aug 2005 00:01

Post by nick »

My sister attempted a juice fast diet for a few days and yet she balked at my recommendation of trying the sample diet. She said she couldn't afford the diet. Good health is priceless and pretending that a fast that only has half or quarter truths is insufficient to get at the cause.

It may/does have short term benefits but the human body needs to be sustained for the long term hence fasts don't make logical sense.

Your belief in the power of fasting is exactly that; it does have a positive effect and you take this as proof for the power of fasting. Fasting in the long term in order to make up for the bad is not logical. Thus it is a belief it isn't provable for the long term, which is the essence of good health. Belief may be right or wrong but it appears in this context of what the situation really consists of, the idea of fasting isn't fixing the cause.
avalon
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu 23 Feb 2006 17:51

Post by avalon »

A Seven day juice fast was the catalyst for me losing to this date 41lbs. At that time I did not know much about fasting and have since studied it a great deal. I've written this before, but it was during that week I realized i had to find a new way of eating. That doing the fast, and returning to the SAD, would not be good. It was then that I found Wai while googling.

RRM Wrote:
And still let the toxins come in?
You know, RRM, many of us, myself included are trying not to let the toxins come back in. Am I perfect, NO! But I'm trying like I've never tried before.

Can someone detox simply by eating Wai, YES. I'm not arguing that.

I'm simply a little miffed about RRM changing the title, so that now when someone sees the post's heading, it has a biased feel.

Sincerely, Avalon :)
User avatar
RRM
Administrator
Posts: 8164
Joined: Sat 16 Jul 2005 00:01
Contact:

Post by RRM »

avalon wrote:A Seven day juice fast was the catalyst for me losing to this date 41lbs.
So, its good?
Spending some time in the desert with just some alcohol, may have the same result, but does that mean its good?
Whether its good for you depends on what it exactly does to your body (besides losing weight).

I'm simply a little miffed about RRM changing the title, so that now when someone sees the post's heading, it has a biased feel.
To me the title already had a biased feel.
So I added some bias on the other side.
Pisces
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat 23 Dec 2006 19:34

Post by Pisces »

There is a concern of mine of the " losing weight means better health" thinking.

I don't necessarily think that it equals better health, especially for women, who are biologically designed to store fat. If people follow their natural appetite (of healthy foods) they are healthier.

If I fast, my body tries to compensate for it afterwards, and I end up gaining.
Pisces
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat 23 Dec 2006 19:34

Post by Pisces »

And as for fasting bringing better mental health,

I can't get how having prolonged critically low blood sugar can be healthy for the brain.

I think it makes people think very fuddled and unclear, but does make people docile and suggestible, simply because they have low brain energy, which is why it may be used in some religions, such as the yogis.
Post Reply