Workout with low glycogen stores ?
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Re: Workout with low glycogen stores ?
Apparently this conversion rate does not vary (which seems strange). The guy in the following link has made extensive blood glucose tests and he found that the 58% conversion rate occurs even on a zerocarb diet (meat only), with different fat/protein ratio (see post #2) :RRM wrote:Ah, but thats not in low-glucose conditions.fred wrote: If you google something like "protein to glucose conversion 58", you'll find numerous pages who repeat that fact ?
Thats just reflecting the average ratio of strictly glucogenic amino acids in
our diet, given normal condtions (not low-glucose).
In low-glucose conditions (paleo diet) the amino acids that are both glucogenic and
ketogenic will be converted into glucose, so that that conversion rate is much higher.
http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/journals/lex%27s-journal/
"What I'm finding is that all protein eaten is converted to glucose at the rate of about 58%."
Post #4 :
"BTW, I know two other people that have done similar experiments and they had the same results."
This needs to be further investigated
Only salmon and whey ?Jodiat wrote:I ate raw salmon and drank whey for 3 months and lifted as heavy as I could. The results was high muscle, low body fat. High acne and low energy. I wouldnt use such diet again. If that helps?
Salmon is lean and whey is pure protein.
How did you get your calories ?
Re: Workout with low glycogen stores ?
Its not strange, its impossible.fred wrote: Apparently this conversion rate does not vary (which seems strange).
It would mean that amino acids that are both glucogenic and ketogenic, would actually be glucogenic only,
and that the body is not able to adapt the production of glucose to our diet.
Evolution does not have any mercy with such rigidness.
He went on to state that:"What I'm finding is that all protein eaten is converted to glucose at the rate of about 58%."
And thats his proof.This was demonstrated to me by the drop in blood glucose levels when I changed my diet from 32% protein to less than 20% protein
As if there is a closed circuit of protein to glucose conversion...
This same guy stated that
So, this guy previously didnt even know that part of the protein is always converted into glucose.Yes it was a surprise to me too, when I found that a portion of any and all protein eaten is converted to glucose.
He stated this:
and 87/150 and 52/90 are both 58%, indeed,My original protein consumption was about 150g/day. This converted to 87g of glucose ...
...
When I cut the protein to 90g/day ... there is 52g glucose created
but that 'conversion calculation' is entirely based on this:
The problem is that there are no data for actual amino acid to glucose calculations in here.68%F/32%P
Baseline
106 Blood glucose daily average
90/120 Blood glucose Hi/Low Range
25 Blood glucose rise after meal
0-Trace Urine Ketones
58 Resting Heart Rt
162 Weight
21.4 Body mass index
11.09 Body fat percentage
80%F/20%P
14 Days
88 Blood glucose daily average
75/105 Blood glucose Hi/Low Range
15 Blood glucose rise after meal
Mod/Lg Urine Ketones
68 Resting Heart Rt
159 Weight
21.0 Body mass index
10.77 Body fat percentage
So that his numbers are distractions from the data above, and the problem of that is that the glucose system is not at all 'closed'.
A distraction is only possible if all parameters are included.
- These parameters are not included:
- glucose to glycogen (right after the meal)
- amino acids to glycogen (right after the meal)
- water retention (influences BMI, weight)
- muscle protein to blood amino acids (way after the meal)
- muscle protein to glucose (way after the meal)
- glycerol (from triglycerides) to glucose (way after the meal)
- fatty acids to glucose (way after the meal
- liver glycogen to glucose (way after the meal)
Re: Workout with low glycogen stores ?
Don't Blood glucose reflect these parameters ?RRM wrote: - These parameters are not included:
- glucose to glycogen (right after the meal)
- amino acids to glycogen (right after the meal)
- water retention (influences BMI, weight)
- muscle protein to blood amino acids (way after the meal)
- muscle protein to glucose (way after the meal)
- glycerol (from triglycerides) to glucose (way after the meal)
- fatty acids to glucose (way after the meal
- liver glycogen to glucose (way after the meal)
I believed fatty acids can't be converted to glucose ?
Re: Workout with low glycogen stores ?
Leucine and lysine are the only amino acids that cannot be converted into glucose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucogenic_amino_acid
http://www.biocarta.com/pathfiles/glucogenicPathway.asp
A 58% amino acid to glucose conversion rate in low glucose (high glucagon) conditions is therefore simply impossible.
(Glucagon may increase gluconeogenesis (newly produced glucose, not yielded from glycogen) 93% above resting value)
Water retention due to elevated protein levels influences BMI and weight,
and thus the outcome.
The amount of liver glycogen (which can be reconverted into glucose) is not measured.
Also not measured are the blood and lymphe amino acid levels, which may vary from 100% up to 900%.
Also, the muscles use fatty acids, glucose as well as amino acids (including leucine, valine, isoleucine) for energy, and the ratios fluctuate.
His calculation method is a huge oversimplification.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucogenic_amino_acid
http://www.biocarta.com/pathfiles/glucogenicPathway.asp
A 58% amino acid to glucose conversion rate in low glucose (high glucagon) conditions is therefore simply impossible.
(Glucagon may increase gluconeogenesis (newly produced glucose, not yielded from glycogen) 93% above resting value)
The distraction method is simply not accurate due to a number of unreliable variables.Don't Blood glucose reflect these parameters ?
Water retention due to elevated protein levels influences BMI and weight,
and thus the outcome.
The amount of liver glycogen (which can be reconverted into glucose) is not measured.
Also not measured are the blood and lymphe amino acid levels, which may vary from 100% up to 900%.
Also, the muscles use fatty acids, glucose as well as amino acids (including leucine, valine, isoleucine) for energy, and the ratios fluctuate.
Yes, they can, also yielding ketones such as beta-hydroxybutyric acid and acetoacetic acid.I believed fatty acids can't be converted to glucose ?
His calculation method is a huge oversimplification.
Do you mean that you sometimes you feel tired because you cant eat?fred wrote:Sometimes I can't eat at the end of the afternoon and I feel tired.
Not after consuming sugars?When I eat my last protein meal before going to bed, my energy level is immediately better.
That may be the case, but its also true that when your blood amino acid levels are low,Is-it thanks to the conversion of amino acid into glucose ?
you may also feel tired. (in a different way; there is no real need for energy,
but you dont feel perfect)
YesRRM wrote:Do you mean that you sometimes you feel tired because you cant eat?fred wrote:Sometimes I can't eat at the end of the afternoon and I feel tired.
No, lean protein only (fish)Not after consuming sugars?When I eat my last protein meal before going to bed, my energy level is immediately better.
In this case, I feel a lack of energy !That may be the case, but its also true that when your blood amino acid levels are low,Is-it thanks to the conversion of amino acid into glucose ?
you may also feel tired. (in a different way; there is no real need for energy,
but you dont feel perfect)
Then make sure it never gets this far.fred wrote:YesRRM wrote:Do you mean that you sometimes you feel tired because you cant eat?fred wrote:Sometimes I can't eat at the end of the afternoon and I feel tired.
Simply always carry a small bottle of juice with you, with lots of sugar.
Dried fruits and nuts also do the trick.
And if that isnt an option either, use dextrose or sugar tablets.
You can tell people that your body has a tendency towards diabetes,
and that you need to keep your blood sugar level up.
Both amino acids and glucose stimulate insulin secretion and the satiety hormones,fred wrote:No, lean protein only (fish)RRM wrote:Not after consuming sugars?fred wrote:When I eat my last protein meal before going to bed, my energy level is immediately better.
some amino acids even more than glucose does.
Particularly if you consume sugars and then protein,
there will be a very 'broad satisfying' effect.